No Smells!

[barrier]

That is my understanding of an undisputed fact, they both agree on the point.  I'd need to see the wording again, was it just to the dogs barking, or was it to the dogs barked to something they were trained to find.
'Lets just look at the undisputed fact and see if it shows what they agreed to.

Proved fact's.
6. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in the apartment 5A, Ocean Club [alínea AR) of the undisputed facts].

7. The British police dogs “Eddie” and “Keela” detected human blood and cadaver in a vehicle rented by the claimants after the disappearance of MMC [alínea AS) of the undisputed facts].

[Robittybob1]

Are you sticking with the story theory MBM and the tapas were playing hide and seek? and it went wrong?

To answer you more directly ... i'll resort to ellipses ... to get around the question ... yes.

[pathfinder73]

Where did the McCanns deny the dog responses?  As I said they included it as an undisputed fact in the court case against Amaral.
"If Madeleine was hiding at 9:35 PM there is no way there should be cadaver odour in the apartment coming from a deceased Madeleine." 
There has to be another explanation.

 

Turn the clock back then.

[Robittybob1]

Who is claiming it was Madelienes cadaver scent which was alerted to? No one as I can see.

 It is still up there along with other substancial evidence- we may not be privvy to. Although the time line and  other things just throw stuff at you it can't be missed- for those who want to see that is.

The fact that the parents dismissed it with a smirk and snigger shows a lack of concern that their daughter coud have been killed in the apartment by person or persons known or unknown to them.
Bizarre response.

Smirking means you know something more that the other person.

"Who is claiming it was Madeleine's cadaver scent which was alerted to? No one as I can see."  Well wasn't it GA who claimed Madeleine had an accident in the apartment and died in the apartment.  He has supporters.

"It is still up there along with other substancial evidence- we may not be privvy to. Although the time line and  other things just throw stuff at you it can't be missed- for those who want to see that is." 

What a lot of waffle.  Stop the waffle.  You are better than that.

[Robittybob1]

 

Turn the clock back then.

You tell me what that means please.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Smirking means you know something more that the other person.

"Who is claiming it was Madeleine's cadaver scent which was alerted to? No one as I can see."  Well wasn't it GA who claimed Madeleine had an accident in the apartment and died in the apartment.  He has supporters.

"It is still up there along with other substancial evidence- we may not be privvy to. Although the time line and  other things just throw stuff at you it can't be missed- for those who want to see that is." 

What a lot of waffle.  Stop the waffle.  You are better than that.

GA didn't say it was MBMs scent. cite for that.


wafffle? are you going to de wafffle my posts? I am not here to sucumb to your or any other mods writing style of your choice.  getting all sanctimonious like.

waffle is : MBM and the family playing hide and seek and  the girl disappears. WHAT  THE...

[Robittybob1]

GA didn't say it was MBMs scent. cite for that.


wafffle? are you going to de wafffle my posts? I am not here to sucumb to your or any other mods writing style of your choice.  getting all sanctimonious like.

waffle is : MBM and the family playing hide and seek and  the girl disappears. WHAT  THE...

I like that.   "GA didn't say it was MBMs scent"  Are you saying he also knows about the possibility of another cadaver being in the apartment that night?   No one can say that cadaver odour is due to a particular victim, even if there was a body right there.
But they try to narrow it down.  He set out to show that there were no previous deaths in apartment 5A.

[Miss Taken Identity]

I like that.   "GA didn't say it was MBMs scent"  Are you saying he also knows about the possibility of another cadaver being in the apartment that night?   No one can say that cadaver odour is due to a particular victim, even if there was a body right there.
But they try to narrow it down.  He set out to show that there were no previous deaths in apartment 5A.

No, I am not saying "he also knows about the possibility of another cadaver being in the apartment that night?  "

I am very clear in what I said -repeating for Rob: "GA didn't say it was MBMs scent" .Without a body how could he know.

He can get access to deaths recorded from that apartment- if none, and the time limit is ok, he can surmise the scent belongs to MBM. The dogs alerted to what they were trained to alert to.

[slartibartfast]

No, I am not saying "he also knows about the possibility of another cadaver being in the apartment that night?  "

I am very clear in what I said -repeating for Rob: "GA didn't say it was MBMs scent" .Without a body how could he know.

He can get access to deaths recorded from that apartment- if none, and the time limit is ok, he can surmise the scent belongs to MBM. The dogs alerted to what they were trained to alert to.

Basically if there was cadaver scent it was most likely Madeleine’s.

[Holly Goodhead]

Basically if there was cadaver scent it was most likely Madeleine’s.

How have you arrived at this conclusion?

[slartibartfast]

How have you arrived at this conclusion?

No proof of other bodies in apartment or cross contamination. Missing person becomes likely cause.

[Holly Goodhead]

No proof of other bodies in apartment or cross contamination. Missing person becomes likely cause.

This is what the National Policing Improvement Agency concluded about the dogs in relation to the disappearance of Shannon Matthews:

The Victim Recovery Dogs used in this operation were drawn from 4 different forces.  It emerged that each force has its own training and deployment policy and so there is no consistency in what the dogs can do and how it is done.  Furthermore, there is no national standard for accrediting dogs and handlers, or record keeping of the success rate they achieve.  This makes it difficult for SIO's to interpret the indication from a dog with no way knowing how reliable that indication was in the first place.  ACPO is currently examining this issue due to a number of recent cases where the use of victim recovery dogs has had the potential to cause complications in an enquiry.

The properties that the dog searched contained a high level of second-hand furniture bought from dwellings where someone had died.  This resulted in numerous indications that required further investigation to confirm whether they were connected to the investigation, or to previous owners of the furniture. 

The value of these dogs is undoubted, but there is an urgent need to have national policy on their training, accreditation and deployment and better information for SIOs about their use.  The NPIA is currently working with the ACPO Strategic Dogs Working Group to resolve these issues.

Page 25 of doc:

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Operation-Paris.pdf

[faithlilly]

This is what the National Policing Improvement Agency concluded about the dogs in relation to the disappearance of Shannon Matthews:

The Victim Recovery Dogs used in this operation were drawn from 4 different forces.  It emerged that each force has its own training and deployment policy and so there is no consistency in what the dogs can do and how it is done.  Furthermore, there is no national standard for accrediting dogs and handlers, or record keeping of the success rate they achieve.  This makes it difficult for SIO's to interpret the indication from a dog with no way knowing how reliable that indication was in the first place.  ACPO is currently examining this issue due to a number of recent cases where the use of victim recovery dogs has had the potential to cause complications in an enquiry.

The properties that the dog searched contained a high level of second-hand furniture bought from dwellings where someone had died.  This resulted in numerous indications that required further investigation to confirm whether they were connected to the investigation, or to previous owners of the furniture. 

The value of these dogs is undoubted, but there is an urgent need to have national policy on their training, accreditation and deployment and better information for SIOs about their use.  The NPIA is currently working with the ACPO Strategic Dogs Working Group to resolve these issues.

Page 25 of doc:

http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Operation-Paris.pdf

So a cadaver had been in close proximity to the furniture the dogs alerted to. No one had died in 5a and, as far as we know, none of the furniture was second hand.

[Holly Goodhead]

When the dogs had a good sniff around the McCanns hire car along with other cars, were the other cars also hire cars or privately owned with the usual 1/2 plus owners? 

Obviously hire cars, especially in tourist resorts, will have contained hundreds if not thousands of drivers and passengers any of which may have come into contact with dead bodies.  Conversely privately owned may not have had any drivers/passengers coming into contact with dead bodies.   

[Holly Goodhead]

So a cadaver had been in close proximity to the furniture the dogs alerted to. No one had died in 5a and, as far as we know, none of the furniture was second hand.

The apartment was a holiday let how would we know who had been in there and the history of the contents? 

When Mrs Fenn, above, bought her apartment she did so following the death of her husband.