Author Topic: The Defence Will State Their Case  (Read 599810 times)

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Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1335 on: March 04, 2018, 06:20:04 PM »

Mon 2 Mar 2015 17.51 GMT Last modified on Wed 29 Nov 2017 22.31 GMT
 

Quote
Tabak was summoned to court from his prison cell in relation to those images during a hearing at Bristol magistrates court in December 2013. He was due to stand trial at Bristol crown court on Monday but entered guilty pleas after judge Neil Ford QC, the recorder of Bristol, rejected an application by his defence to stop the case.

Do they wheel this Judge out as a joke??

Quote
The former recorder of Bristol Crown Court revealed that he once doodled a 'very large phallus' on an old court computer system.

The naughty drawing led to everyone's pens being confiscated, he said.

He also admitted filling an associates' bag with small bottles of gin on the train back from a trial in Reading, during which they played a rude version of hangman.

During the light-hearted farewell ceremony held in a courtroom packed with leading lawyers, he provoked fits of laughter by revealing how his 'out of office' on the screen used for showing evidence was the drawing of a fist - with its middle finger stuck up.

And this is what we get as a person passing Judgement on others...  The whole Justice system is a mockery...(imo)!



 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4100350/I-m-guilty-doing-rude-doodle-judge-confesses-retirement-speech.html#ixzz58nzZUdpl

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/02/vincent-tabak-admits-possessing-indecent-images-of-children

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Re: The Defence Will State Their Case/ A theory to the silence
« Reply #1336 on: March 07, 2018, 08:42:03 PM »
I am no expert and what I write is my opinion... But I have a possible theory for the silence......

What did they originally charge Dr Vincent Tabak with??
With all of the outrage and talk of hanging Dr Vincent Tabak, this being even before he had sat at trial, being guilty before being proved guiltier....
I still cannot get that concept out of my head, the presumption of Innocence seems to have failed in this case....

When they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak in January 2011 and subsequently charged him, what did they charge him with?? Murder?.. we don't really know, which is odd in itself... we have again presumed that must have been the case....

Did the Prosecution miss a trick?? They shouldn't have..

Dr Vincent Tabak has only ever had one charge apparently brought against him... And realistically they could have brought more charges...

More charges that would have added to his already life sentence... And I am amazed that they haven't...

Why not accept the Manslaughter Plea then add on the charge of  Obstructing a Coroner -
 Preventing the Burial of a Body??
Obstructing a coroner or preventing a Burial if the disposal of the body is more serious than the unlawful act which caused the death.
And as we do not know really what happened to Joanna Yeates (imo) and they don't know what happened to Joanna Yeates, that charge would have been the icing on the cake... Dr Vincent Tabak could have said it was an accident in a sexual context.. He could have said it was an accident full stop.. It was seconds according to the trial, not what you would expect to cause someones death, so quickly..(imo)

Joanna Yeates was removed from her home apparently... Concealed.. hidden ...

Quote
Twice Clegg said the jury would hear no excuses from him about Tabak's "disgusting" behaviour after he killed Yeates. The decision to hide the body – which remained concealed for eight days – had caused untold anguish and agony for her family. Tabak, he said, had shown himself to be very calculating.


Clegg (imo) should never had Dr Vincent Tabak on the stand... they obviously never knew what had happened to Joanna Yeates....

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Obstructing a Coroner - Preventing the Burial of a Body

Any disposal of a corpse with intent to obstruct or prevent a coroner's inquest, when there is a duty to hold one, is an offence. The offence is a common law offence, triable only on indictment and carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment and/or a fine.

The offence of preventing the burial of a body (indictable only, unlimited imprisonment) is an alternative charge. Proof of this offence does not require proof of the specific intent required for obstructing a coroner.

The offences of obstructing a coroner and preventing the burial of a body may arise for example, when a person decides to conceal the innocent and unexpected death of a relative or friend or prevent his burial. Such cases inevitably raise sensitive public interest factors which must be carefully considered.

When the evidence supports a charge of involuntary manslaughter, it may be necessary to add a charge of obstructing a coroner or preventing a burial if the disposal of the body is more serious than the unlawful act which caused the death.

Obstructing a coroner may also amount to an offence of perverting the course of justice. Regard must be had to the factors outlined in General Charging Practice, above in this guidance and Charging Practice for Public Justice Offences, above in this guidance, which help to identify conduct too serious to charge as obstructing a coroner, when consideration should be given to a charge of perverting the course of justice.

So we have a far more serious Charge available to The CPS... yet they fail to charge Dr Vincent Tabak with this extremely serious offence... But what they did manage to do, was get Dr Vincent Tabak to admit to moving Joanna Yeates body from her Flat at 44, Canygne Road to Longwood Lane when he was at trial in October 2011.....
That in itself is an admission of Obstructing a Coroner -Preventing the Burial of a Body??..  So what charges were possible to bring against Dr Vincent Tabak to make sure he spent endless extra Years in Jail..

* Obstructing a Coroner -Preventing the Burial of a Body

* Murder

* Perverting the course of Justice...

Perverting the Course of Justice
Quote
Perverting the course of justice is a serious offence. It can only be tried on indictment and carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

Plenty there to secure his fate bringing multiple life sentences.... And it brings many questions... Either they know that Joanna Yeates was 'on Longwood lane ' from when she went Missing, and not where they say she was therefore her body hadn't been moved...
Or alternatively, they have the option to still charge him with the "Obstructing a Coroner" and Preventing the Burial of a Body ... which carries a hefty sentence..

And maybe that is the possible reason that Dr Vincent Tabak has kept quiet.... Even if his sentence was reduced to "Manslaughter" would he risk being charge with the "Obstructing a Coroner on top, of a Manslaughter Sentence?? Still leaving him in prison for many many years..  Or even a life sentence for 'Perverting The Course of Justice'..

We know that when the child porn charges came they kept counts on file..

Quote
Two other counts of making indecent photographs, relating to 23 images found on external hard drives, were ordered to lie on file.

If The Obstruction of the Coroner isn't the reason that Dr Vincent Tabak has kept quiet... Is it the fact they could choose to charge him with "Perverting The Course of Justice'?? And these are the reasons why Dr Vincent Tabak has kept his head down and not made any noises about Innocence??

Perverting The Course of Justice was admitted by Dr Vincent Tabak in his story on the stand... They had no idea what happened to Joanna Yeates until Dr Vincent Tabak took the stand and told that ridiculous story in October 2011...  If they knew what had happened to Joanna Yeates when the trial started.. Dr Vincent Tabak would have had more charges laid against him and could have had more charges laid against him....(imo)..  But those charges do not happen when the trial commences... But unbeknown to Dr Vincent Tabak, by taking the stand and making the admissions he did, he therefore has opened up a charge of Perverting The Course of Justice.... Not once but twice... (CJ)

Dr Vincent Tabak gains nothing by taking the stand and telling the world he killed Joanna Yeates... No reduction on sentence ... absolutely nothing... If he  had kept quiet and said nothing, it would have been up to the prosecution to prove that Dr Vincent Tabak had "Murdered Joanna Yeates... They already had rejected The manslaughter Plea..

So Dr Vincent Tabak could have just sat there quiet and Clegg should have advised him of that (imo).. And I do not understand why Clegg did not advise his client of that... Especially as he admits to "Perverting The Course of Justice by admitting to moving Joanna Yeates body...And implicating CJ..

So yes I can see Dr Vincent Tabak and his family and anyone else keeping quiet about what really happened to Joanna Yeates...  Maybe thats why CJ never mentions what he knows, maybe he is protecting Dr Vincent Tabak too...

It's a lot to risk.. Everyone believes he is guilty.. I am not one of those... But when the system has shown itself to be unfair to a defendant, why would he risk being imprisoned for any longer... Therefore his family wouldn't want to say anything either... They wouldn't want to make it any worse for him...

I believe even if they let Dr Vincent Tabak go free tomorrow, he would not say anything in fear of having other charges brought against him...  So on saying that, no-one will ever find out the truth in this case... And the Yeates family will never get real justice (imo).. The real killer walks away scott free and the Placid Dutchman knows not to speak out...(imo)

Is it possible that they could still charge Dr Vincent Tabak with either "The offence of preventing the burial of a body' or Perverting the course of Justice.... ( For my theory to add weight to why Dr Vincent Tabak is silent)

Quote
All the prosecution needs to prove is that there is a possibility that what the complainant has done "without more" might lead to a wrongful consequence, such as the arrest of an innocent person

As we know CJ was arrested,but the Police have made us believe that the phone call from Holland was important in the detention of CJ... the Attorney General even stated in July 2011 that CJ was a wholly Innocent man...  which brings me back to why they didn't bring the charge of 'Perverting The course of Justice' against Dr Vincent Tabak in the first place... They Insisted that he tried to implicate the landlord... On The Law Pages it says that he tried to implicate the landlord and that the landlord was arrested ..... The Attorney General says CJ is wholly Innocent when the Newspapers are brought to court in July 2011....

I think Dr Vincent Tabak and everyone else is stuck between a rock and a hard place.....

Why didn't they charge Dr Vincent Tabak with "The offence of preventing the burial of a body (indictable only, unlimited imprisonment) as an alternative charge. "??
He's never coming out of prison on that charge... If they choose the unlimited prison option... But they don't charge him with that...  Involuntary Manslaughter would support the ability to add this extra charge..

Yet for the public's satisfaction they give him life in prison instead and use unsubstanciated evidence that he was into strangulation porn after the trial to turn the public against him... To me they just wanted to shut him up and teach him a lesson and lead the general public into believing a true monster killed Joanna Yeates and not a Placid Dutchman... Or did they want the information out there for some other reason??

Did Dr Vincent Tabak really kill Joanna Yeates??
I don't think so...(imo)...

They really could have thrown the book at him and they didn't.... why not??

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/false-allegations-rape-andor-domestic-abuse-see-guidance-charging-perverting-course

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-31700109

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/public-justice-offences-incorporating-charging-standard

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/19/vincent-tabak-joanna-yeates-court

Offline Baz

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case/ A theory to the silence
« Reply #1337 on: March 08, 2018, 03:55:32 PM »
I am no expert and what I write is my opinion... But I have a possible theory for the silence......

What did they originally charge Dr Vincent Tabak with??
With all of the outrage and talk of hanging Dr Vincent Tabak, this being even before he had sat at trial, being guilty before being proved guiltier....
I still cannot get that concept out of my head, the presumption of Innocence seems to have failed in this case....

When they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak in January 2011 and subsequently charged him, what did they charge him with?? Murder?.. we don't really know, which is odd in itself... we have again presumed that must have been the case....

Did the Prosecution miss a trick?? They shouldn't have..

Dr Vincent Tabak has only ever had one charge apparently brought against him... And realistically they could have brought more charges...

More charges that would have added to his already life sentence... And I am amazed that they haven't...

Why not accept the Manslaughter Plea then add on the charge of  Obstructing a Coroner -
 Preventing the Burial of a Body??
Obstructing a coroner or preventing a Burial if the disposal of the body is more serious than the unlawful act which caused the death.
And as we do not know really what happened to Joanna Yeates (imo) and they don't know what happened to Joanna Yeates, that charge would have been the icing on the cake... Dr Vincent Tabak could have said it was an accident in a sexual context.. He could have said it was an accident full stop.. It was seconds according to the trial, not what you would expect to cause someones death, so quickly..(imo)

Joanna Yeates was removed from her home apparently... Concealed.. hidden ...

Clegg (imo) should never had Dr Vincent Tabak on the stand... they obviously never knew what had happened to Joanna Yeates....

So we have a far more serious Charge available to The CPS... yet they fail to charge Dr Vincent Tabak with this extremely serious offence... But what they did manage to do, was get Dr Vincent Tabak to admit to moving Joanna Yeates body from her Flat at 44, Canygne Road to Longwood Lane when he was at trial in October 2011.....
That in itself is an admission of Obstructing a Coroner -Preventing the Burial of a Body??..  So what charges were possible to bring against Dr Vincent Tabak to make sure he spent endless extra Years in Jail..

* Obstructing a Coroner -Preventing the Burial of a Body

* Murder

* Perverting the course of Justice...

Perverting the Course of Justice
Plenty there to secure his fate bringing multiple life sentences.... And it brings many questions... Either they know that Joanna Yeates was 'on Longwood lane ' from when she went Missing, and not where they say she was therefore her body hadn't been moved...
Or alternatively, they have the option to still charge him with the "Obstructing a Coroner" and Preventing the Burial of a Body ... which carries a hefty sentence..

And maybe that is the possible reason that Dr Vincent Tabak has kept quiet.... Even if his sentence was reduced to "Manslaughter" would he risk being charge with the "Obstructing a Coroner on top, of a Manslaughter Sentence?? Still leaving him in prison for many many years..  Or even a life sentence for 'Perverting The Course of Justice'..

We know that when the child porn charges came they kept counts on file..

If The Obstruction of the Coroner isn't the reason that Dr Vincent Tabak has kept quiet... Is it the fact they could choose to charge him with "Perverting The Course of Justice'?? And these are the reasons why Dr Vincent Tabak has kept his head down and not made any noises about Innocence??

Perverting The Course of Justice was admitted by Dr Vincent Tabak in his story on the stand... They had no idea what happened to Joanna Yeates until Dr Vincent Tabak took the stand and told that ridiculous story in October 2011...  If they knew what had happened to Joanna Yeates when the trial started.. Dr Vincent Tabak would have had more charges laid against him and could have had more charges laid against him....(imo)..  But those charges do not happen when the trial commences... But unbeknown to Dr Vincent Tabak, by taking the stand and making the admissions he did, he therefore has opened up a charge of Perverting The Course of Justice.... Not once but twice... (CJ)

Dr Vincent Tabak gains nothing by taking the stand and telling the world he killed Joanna Yeates... No reduction on sentence ... absolutely nothing... If he  had kept quiet and said nothing, it would have been up to the prosecution to prove that Dr Vincent Tabak had "Murdered Joanna Yeates... They already had rejected The manslaughter Plea..

So Dr Vincent Tabak could have just sat there quiet and Clegg should have advised him of that (imo).. And I do not understand why Clegg did not advise his client of that... Especially as he admits to "Perverting The Course of Justice by admitting to moving Joanna Yeates body...And implicating CJ..

So yes I can see Dr Vincent Tabak and his family and anyone else keeping quiet about what really happened to Joanna Yeates...  Maybe thats why CJ never mentions what he knows, maybe he is protecting Dr Vincent Tabak too...

It's a lot to risk.. Everyone believes he is guilty.. I am not one of those... But when the system has shown itself to be unfair to a defendant, why would he risk being imprisoned for any longer... Therefore his family wouldn't want to say anything either... They wouldn't want to make it any worse for him...

I believe even if they let Dr Vincent Tabak go free tomorrow, he would not say anything in fear of having other charges brought against him...  So on saying that, no-one will ever find out the truth in this case... And the Yeates family will never get real justice (imo).. The real killer walks away scott free and the Placid Dutchman knows not to speak out...(imo)

Is it possible that they could still charge Dr Vincent Tabak with either "The offence of preventing the burial of a body' or Perverting the course of Justice.... ( For my theory to add weight to why Dr Vincent Tabak is silent)

As we know CJ was arrested,but the Police have made us believe that the phone call from Holland was important in the detention of CJ... the Attorney General even stated in July 2011 that CJ was a wholly Innocent man...  which brings me back to why they didn't bring the charge of 'Perverting The course of Justice' against Dr Vincent Tabak in the first place... They Insisted that he tried to implicate the landlord... On The Law Pages it says that he tried to implicate the landlord and that the landlord was arrested ..... The Attorney General says CJ is wholly Innocent when the Newspapers are brought to court in July 2011....

I think Dr Vincent Tabak and everyone else is stuck between a rock and a hard place.....

Why didn't they charge Dr Vincent Tabak with "The offence of preventing the burial of a body (indictable only, unlimited imprisonment) as an alternative charge. "??
He's never coming out of prison on that charge... If they choose the unlimited prison option... But they don't charge him with that...  Involuntary Manslaughter would support the ability to add this extra charge..

Yet for the public's satisfaction they give him life in prison instead and use unsubstanciated evidence that he was into strangulation porn after the trial to turn the public against him... To me they just wanted to shut him up and teach him a lesson and lead the general public into believing a true monster killed Joanna Yeates and not a Placid Dutchman... Or did they want the information out there for some other reason??

Did Dr Vincent Tabak really kill Joanna Yeates??
I don't think so...(imo)...

They really could have thrown the book at him and they didn't.... why not??

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/false-allegations-rape-andor-domestic-abuse-see-guidance-charging-perverting-course

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-31700109

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/public-justice-offences-incorporating-charging-standard

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/19/vincent-tabak-joanna-yeates-court

I think your theory stretches credulity, unless I have misunderstood it.

Are you suggesting that a wholly innocent man, serving a life sentence for a murder he didn't commit, refuses to claim he is innocent in case they add on more charges against him? As none of the possible charges you refer to are worse than the murder charge he already has against him I'm not sure how the threat of more charges are really going to ensure his silence?

Also, it doesn't explain why he confessed in prison and on the stand to be responsible for her death.

Do people who are charged with murders like this usually get charged with perverting the course of justice and obstructing the coroner or are these considered superfluous when pursuing a murder charge?

I have also been trying to find a British example of someone confessing on the stand who was later found to be innocent and can not find any. False confessions, as I understand it, come about due to or just to put an end to less than scrupulous police interrogations.

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case/ A theory to the silence
« Reply #1338 on: March 08, 2018, 06:15:14 PM »
I think your theory stretches credulity, unless I have misunderstood it.

Are you suggesting that a wholly innocent man, serving a life sentence for a murder he didn't commit, refuses to claim he is innocent in case they add on more charges against him? As none of the possible charges you refer to are worse than the murder charge he already has against him I'm not sure how the threat of more charges are really going to ensure his silence?

Also, it doesn't explain why he confessed in prison and on the stand to be responsible for her death.

Do people who are charged with murders like this usually get charged with perverting the course of justice and obstructing the coroner or are these considered superfluous when pursuing a murder charge?

I have also been trying to find a British example of someone confessing on the stand who was later found to be innocent and can not find any. False confessions, as I understand it, come about due to or just to put an end to less than scrupulous police interrogations.

Do you not find that mighty strange Baz... That there is no other case in this country where someone confesses on the stand...It's  a very American idea... It's almost like they have used laws from America and laws from this country to try Dr Vincent Tabak.. And that can't be right...

Mix that with people shouting for the death penalty and what have you got??  A F**ing Pantomine!!

You wonder why I have ended up all over the place with this case, and have come up with idea's that may appear to some as ludicrous.. DCI Phil Jones still niggles at me... I have seen that guy somewhere else before... I can't put my finger on it...

Did you know that Dr Vincent Tabak is described as a 'Fictional' Character by google.. (images attached)

Quote
See results about
Vincent Tabak (Fictional character)
Played by: Joe Sims
TV show: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies

What is it about this case??  It is so wrong... And no-one says anything about it?? The Yeates.. The Tabak's ... The Press and lawyers... no-one will say anything....

And I am left more confused than when I started... Yes.. Complex is the correct way in which to describe this case,,, even though it shouldn't be...

* Why did they all play a part??
* Why is everything back to front??
* Why does everything contradict itself?

* Why is the Defence not defending their client and the prosecution asking for a change of venue??
* Why are they telling the world that Dr Vincent Tabak pleaded guilty to manslaughter before he stands trial for
   Murder.
* Why is Dr Vincent Tabak guilty before being found guiltier?
* Why no presumption of Innocence..
* Why are The Yeates family allowed behind the Crime scene tape on Longwood lane on the 27th December 2010?
* Why are the press allowed to walk down Joanna Yeates path and around the back of Canygne Road before Dr
   Vincent Tabak was even a suspect in December?
* Why have they used random builder to do forensic work and not follow protocol?
* Why are they doing forensics on the bay window before Dr Vincent Tabak is even a suspect??
* Why are sky news tweeting imaginary witness's ( DCI Mark Luther )
* Why no good character evidence??
* Why the release about the porn when it wasn't evidence and hadn't been proved to be evidence
* Why did Crimewatche have a re-inactment after the event!

I don't understand what has gone on with this case Baz... But it doesn't seem legal to me ... How has everyone got involved... what was the case in October 2011 about?? It was all across the media everyone knew about it... yet no-one in the legal field said anything about it....

I really do not understand how William Clegg could stand there and not defend his client... This entire trial was a mockery... And i am wondering if it was even a real trial at all... Was it a moot trial??

Again you probably think I am off my head, but quite frankly I'll do a Rhett Butler!

Avon and Somerset Police know who killed Joanna Yeates (imo) and not Dr Vincent Tabak.. I know there are lenty of plods out there but they cannot be that ham fisted as to create an impossibly Clean Crime scene for everyone to believe that was apparently what Joanna Yeates Flat looked like frozen in time... Is everyone blind!!

The Crime Scene Cleaners had been into that flat... The staging is all wrong... for a fight and struggle to have taken place, everything is extremely tidy.. and apparently Joanna Yeates wasn't tidy...

Something went pear-shaped before they arrested Dr Vincent Tabak (imo)...  Even before they arrested CJ... They had already started cocking everything up forensically by the 29th December 2010 by having bob the builder on site, not following any protocols, which i have posted about... And having the media walk around and onto said Crime Scene taking video and photo's of the side path and back of 44, Canygne Road...

I do not know what this is about Baz.... It's shocking.. I have 'No" faith in the Justice System whatsoever or the Police... And i was brought up to respect The Police... Now I ask why?? Shame really ...

You yourself Baz must see that this case is unlike anything that has gone before.... And therefore should be headline news.. It should be all over the News... MP's should be talking about this case... DCI Phil Jones shouldn't be describing Dr Vincent Tabak as Placid... The judge shouldn't be telling people to  "Please make due allowance for the stress the defendant is under, facing this very serious charge and bear in mind this defendant gave his evidence in English, which is not his first language."

In fact the summing up that was reported was a Joke...

Quote
Mr Justice Field initially began summarising all the evidence heard during the three-week trial.

The judge said the prosecution did not accept Tabak's plea to manslaughter, which he had entered in May at the Old Bailey.

'They contend that Vincent Tabak intended to kill Joanna or at the very least intended to cause her really serious bodily injury and is therefore guilty of murder,' the judge said.

'It is your charge to decide whether he is guilty or not guilty of that charge.'

The judge warned the jurors to put out of their minds any newspaper or television reports they may have seen about the case.

'Consider the evidence you have heard and only the evidence you have heard and reach your verdict in a calm, dispassionate and rationale way - justice requires nothing less,' he told them.

He also said it was for the jurors to carefully weigh up all the evidence they had heard.
'It is for you to decide which evidence you accept and which evidence you do not,' the judge said.

'Please make due allowance for the stress the defendant is under, facing this very serious charge and bear in mind this defendant gave his evidence in English, which is not his first language."

The judge continued: 'If after considering all the evidence you are sure the defendant is guilty you must return a verdict of guilty.

'If you are not sure your verdict must be not guilty.'

Again Baz... This is a is a disgrace .. A joke... And unbelievable...


My head is cabbaged with all this ... It's a minefield and it is meant to be... As I said Baz I don't give a flying Fig what people think anymore... If they can with all honesty look at everything to do with this case and tell me it is not a sham trial... Then I will listen to their reasoning behind that...

But it is a sham...(imo)... And the system is broken... I am at a loss.... !!

Edit... For clarification... I believe that William Clegg didn't represent his client to the best of his abilities... he is supposed to be the Master Defender... But (imo) behaved more like an apprentice!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053703/Joanna-Yeates-trial-Judge-tells-jury-accept-majority-verdict.html#ixzz59BJ0utf6


[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1339 on: March 09, 2018, 05:12:13 AM »
CourtNewsuk tweets..

Quote
CourtNewsUK

 
@CourtNewsUK
Following Following @CourtNewsUK
More
Vincent Tabak looks like newsreader at a desk as he appears on Old Bailey videolink http://courtnewsuk.co.uk
2:13 AM - 5 May 2011

I'll attach the image I believe that they are referring too... That link just takes you to their front page and obviously that story isn't there anymore..

There is nothing on the trial in October 2011 from CourtNewsUK and obviously May's appearance by video link creates a response that tells us this is one big joke.. I believe CourtNewsUk covers The Old Bailey, But I had hoped that they would have done a follow up of the trial... Maybe they didn't need to do a follow up of this strange case..


The only tweets available from CourtNewsUK about Dr Vincent Tabak are only from his appearance at the Old Bailey..

Quote
CourtNewsUK

 
@CourtNewsUK
Following Following @CourtNewsUK
More
Vincent Tabak will be tried in Bristol for the murder of Jo Yeats http://courtnewsuk.co.uk

2:29 AM - 5 May 2011

And this one..

Quote
CourtNewsUK

 
@CourtNewsUK
Following Following @CourtNewsUK
More
Vincent Tabak has admitted killing Jo Yeats http://courtnewsuk.co.uk

2:20 AM - 5 May 2011
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
Reply   Retweet

Their website has only one story on Dr Vincent Tabak
Quote
SEARCH RESULTS FOR: TABAK
CM NEWS

TABAK: ‘I DID KILL JO’
BRISTOL

A Dutch engineer admitted killing Bristol landscape gardener Jo Yeates when he appeared at the Old Bailey today (Thurs).

Vincent Tabak, 33, denied murder but pleaded guility to the mansl

Read More

I find their response to this case is making a mockery.. I agree that the image they refer to does remind me also of a Newsreader.. but really that isn't the point..  knowing what we know now about this case I view their tweet as a joke... Just like the rest of this trial...(imo) It's supposed to be an extremely serious case... A murder has taken place.. Yet CourtNewsUK.. have fun with the fact that Dr Vincent Tabak is appearing via video link looking like a newsreader....
The Experience and Credentials of CourtNewsUK makes that tweet astounding... I would not have expected that from an agency that in their words say that they have "fought hard to build their reputation for 20 years"....
Quote
Our experience/credentials:
Coutnewsuk is the only specialist courts and tribunals agency operating within the UK. We have been supplying the national, regional and local press for more than 20 years and have built a hard fought reputation as one of the country’s best news agencies.

Our current clients:
Our client list includes national newspapers, radio and TV stations, and effectively every major provincial paper within the UK.

I am not trying to discredit CourtNewsUK, rather I am making the point that they too must be aware of something just like the rest of the media..(imo) that this case is not what we believe it to be.... If they can poke fun at Dr Vincent Tabak's plight when he is facing a very serious charge.. `then I can only assume that they too are in the know about this case....

What is wrong with this case??
Why won't anyone say something!!



http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/about-us/
http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/?s=tabak
https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/66068005062316032
https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/66072055396839425
https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/66069681844391936

Offline Baz

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case/ A theory to the silence
« Reply #1340 on: March 09, 2018, 12:02:00 PM »
Do you not find that mighty strange Baz... That there is no other case in this country where someone confesses on the stand...It's  a very American idea... It's almost like they have used laws from America and laws from this country to try Dr Vincent Tabak.. And that can't be right...

You've misunderstood my point. There are plenty of cases in this country where people detail their crimes when on the stand in order to try and lessen their culpability just as Tabak did. What I meant was that I can find no case in which someone pleads guilty in a court of law (even though he only pleaded guilty to a lesser charge!) only to be later exonerated. You can understand this happening in the USA due to their "plea deal" system so some one will plead guilty to get a lower sentence even though they are innocent because it's better than getting the worse sentence. We don't have the same system here, as I  understand it. People usually falsely confess to end abusive/lengthy interrogations by police but will then deny their confession in court. I can't find anyone in the uk who pleaded guilty to their crime in court and were later exonerated... do you understand my point now?


Offline Baz

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case/ A theory to the silence
« Reply #1341 on: March 09, 2018, 12:06:59 PM »
Quote

I really do not understand how William Clegg could stand there and not defend his client... This entire trial was a mockery... And i am wondering if it was even a real trial at all... Was it a moot trial??


He absolutely did defend his client. We have been through this before, I believe. He wasn't trying to persuade a jury that his client was innocent because his client had already confessed, pleaded guilty to being responsible for her death and would be taking the stand to try and persuade the jury that he hadn't intended to kill her.

Offline AerialHunter

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1342 on: March 10, 2018, 09:52:57 AM »
Tabak is one of the oddballs you get. I know a few people like him and if anything they have a tendency to ignore any consequence of their actions in order to know, entirely in their own minds, that they have won. Rational, as an adjective, rarely gets used to describe them, bizarre often does.

Tabak is faced with a bunch of inept fools who cannot see any other argument than the one in front of them, the same questions come around again and again, even with a change of moron asking the questions. Tabak knows he didn't do it but he has a weapon in his arsenal equivalent to a nuke, he just claims responsibility and the cretins are dispatched into oblivion, they have no comeback and the real killer walks free, Tabak in his own world, wins. The result is irrelevant, he can spend his life developing his math ideas and come back to it later in life. Win-win.

AH
There is none so noble or in receipt of his fellows unbridled adulation as that police officer who willingly deceives to protect one of his own kind and, by virtue of birthright, extends that privilege to his family.

Offline nina

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1343 on: March 10, 2018, 05:16:09 PM »
Tabak is one of the oddballs you get. I know a few people like him and if anything they have a tendency to ignore any consequence of their actions in order to know, entirely in their own minds, that they have won. Rational, as an adjective, rarely gets used to describe them, bizarre often does.

Tabak is faced with a bunch of inept fools who cannot see any other argument than the one in front of them, the same questions come around again and again, even with a change of moron asking the questions. Tabak knows he didn't do it but he has a weapon in his arsenal equivalent to a nuke, he just claims responsibility and the cretins are dispatched into oblivion, they have no comeback and the real killer walks free, Tabak in his own world, wins. The result is irrelevant, he can spend his life developing his math ideas and come back to it later in life. Win-win.

AH

  ????

Offline AerialHunter

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1344 on: March 11, 2018, 10:59:48 AM »
  ????

The reasoning is part of why this complex situation has risen out of nothing.
There is none so noble or in receipt of his fellows unbridled adulation as that police officer who willingly deceives to protect one of his own kind and, by virtue of birthright, extends that privilege to his family.

Offline Baz

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1345 on: March 12, 2018, 04:56:34 PM »
Tabak is one of the oddballs you get. I know a few people like him and if anything they have a tendency to ignore any consequence of their actions in order to know, entirely in their own minds, that they have won. Rational, as an adjective, rarely gets used to describe them, bizarre often does.

Tabak is faced with a bunch of inept fools who cannot see any other argument than the one in front of them, the same questions come around again and again, even with a change of moron asking the questions. Tabak knows he didn't do it but he has a weapon in his arsenal equivalent to a nuke, he just claims responsibility and the cretins are dispatched into oblivion, they have no comeback and the real killer walks free, Tabak in his own world, wins. The result is irrelevant, he can spend his life developing his math ideas and come back to it later in life. Win-win.

AH

An intelligent man would chose a life sentence just to get one over on some people he barely knows? He's the loser in that situation. Even though, in your scenario, he is the only one to know the truth and therefore he 'wins' he loses decades of his life, everyone he knows believes him to be a murder, his career he had worked so hard for is gone and all so he can (in his mind) beat the police? How is that remotely win-win??

Sorry, but I don't think that theory makes any sense at all.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 04:59:00 PM by Baz »

Offline mrswah

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Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1346 on: March 12, 2018, 06:37:19 PM »
An intelligent man would chose a life sentence just to get one over on some people he barely knows? He's the loser in that situation. Even though, in your scenario, he is the only one to know the truth and therefore he 'wins' he loses decades of his life, everyone he knows believes him to be a murder, his career he had worked so hard for is gone and all so he can (in his mind) beat the police? How is that remotely win-win??

Sorry, but I don't think that theory makes any sense at all.

I have to agree with you on this, Baz.

Offline AerialHunter

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1347 on: March 12, 2018, 10:12:43 PM »
You also have to consider his nationality, hardly the easiest of peoples. I think he's wiped the floor with the numpties, he'd certainly have the arrogance bred into him, that's why his sentence was so harsh, hardly a pre-planned event even if you went along with all the bull. Nope, sorry but the system wanted revenge, that case was put where the sun don't shine and plod couldn't fish it back out with a bent coat hanger.
There is none so noble or in receipt of his fellows unbridled adulation as that police officer who willingly deceives to protect one of his own kind and, by virtue of birthright, extends that privilege to his family.

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1348 on: March 14, 2018, 01:19:17 AM »


From Twitter.....

Quote
Rupert Evelyn

 
@rupertevelyn
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Judge asks jury to return tomorrow at 1030 tomorrow. Bill Clegg QC won't be here tomorrow as he's reqd in court of appeal

8:15 AM - 27 Oct 2011


Jury could come to a verdict and you won't be there to congratulate or commiserate with your client... Not there to offer advice on possible appeal or anything ??

Is it normal practice for The Defences Lawyer not to be at court when the jury could come back at any minute with a verdict ?

I don't understand why he would be at the court of appeal when he was already busy with a Murder Trial.... Couldn't he postpone that??

Could someone please explain if this is normal practice.....

Now I have just re-read that tweet, and I am slightly confused,.. It's because of the timestamp... And Timestamps have caused all sorts of problems in this case....
The time of the tweet is 8:14am is that correct as in UK time ??
The tweet is for Thursday 27th October 2011 and tomorrow makes it Friday the 28th October 2011..
So Bill Clegg would be absent on the day the jury return with a verdict.. Justice Field originally wanted a unanimous verdict but decided on a majority

Quote
The jury in the trial of Vincent Tabak has been told it can return a majority verdict.

The trial judge, Mr Justice Field, called the jury back into court one at Bristol crown court at noon after it had been deliberating for 11 hours.

He told the jury to continue to try to reach a unanimous verdict on whether Tabak was guilty of murdering Joanna Yeates.But he said if they could not, he would accept a verdict on which at least 10 agreed. The jury was sent back to continue deliberating.

We then get this event taking place....

Quote
Earlier on Friday, the jury had passed a handwritten note scribbled on a page of a torn-out notebook to Field. In response to the note, the judge repeated parts of his summing up relating to the intention of Tabak, a Dutch engineer.

If The Tweet does refer to the Friday isn't it even more important for Bill Clegg to be there when the jury were sending notes to the judge as they must have be called back into court to have this response...

Quote
Field told the six men and six women on the jury that the issue to be decided was the defendant's intention when he used "unlawful violence" against Yeates. The question they had to address was: "Did he intend to kill her or cause her really serious bodily harm?"

Field told them they had to examine the evidence they had heard. "I emphasise it is the evidence you heard and nothing else."

The judge said if the jury was sure that, when he strangled Yeates, Tabak had intended to kill her or cause her really serious harm, the verdict would be guilty. If they were not sure, it had to be not guilty.


I don't understand... everything appears wrong with this trial for me...



https://twitter.com/rupertevelyn/status/129577070517944321
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/oct/28/joanna-yeates-vincent-tabak-trial


Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1349 on: March 14, 2018, 10:11:21 AM »
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Rupert Evelyn

 
@rupertevelyn
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Bill Clegg QC asks if Joanna Yeates was killed elsewhere and taken to Longwood Lane. Nickson replies "yes".

There must have been evidence that Joanna Yeates body had been moved, yet we fail to establish how they knew that her body had been moved to Longwood Lane.. It is important to establish the reason for Tanja Nickson to make that statement, without us knowing how she came to that conclusion..

Possible reasons to know that the body had been moved...

* Lividity

* Re-dressed

* No body fluids

* Body had been washed

* Longwood Lane had been searched previously

* Joanna Yeates had been abducted and held

* Was there evidence that the body had started to decompose and then was frozen

Also where is elsewhere??

Why wouldn't Clegg press Nickson on her belief that the body had been moved? It is fundimental in establishing when Joanna Yeates had been left on Longwood Lane and whether Dr Vincent Tabak had the time in which to kill her and dispose of her body..... If lividity was how they determined that Joanna Yeates had been moved, where on her body had the pooling happened??

I say this for instance... If someone had her sat in a passenger seat of a car, the blood would first go to the feet..I presume, as gravity determines where the signs of lividity appear.. Lividity could tell us many things about Joanna Yeates body being moved.. But I do not remember it ever being mentioned at trial!

The same applies to whether or not Joanna Yeates body had started to decompose before she was frozen and how much decomposition had taken place... (imo)

Quote
Stage One: Autolysis

The first stage of human decomposition is called autolysis, or self-digestion, and begins immediately after death. As soon as blood circulation and respiration stop, the body has no way of getting oxygen or removing wastes. Excess carbon dioxide causes an acidic environment, causing membranes in cells to rupture. The membranes release enzymes that begin eating the cells from the inside out.


Is there anyway in which they can measure excessive carbon dioxide?? Wouldn't that and the membranes in the cells rupturing give an indication as to when Joanna Yeates body began to freeze??

William Clegg (imo) should have pressed Nickson more about how she knew that Joanna Yeates had been moved to Longwood Lane in her professional opinion..!

I did notice that William Clegg had not established that Joanna Yeates had been moved from her Flat at Canygne Road to Longwood Lane, he says 'Moved from elsewhere".. Surely if they and he believe that his client had killed Joanna Yeates in her Flat he would say Canygne Road... Elsewhere could be anywhere...

Why does everything in this case seem slap dash!!



https://twitter.com/rupertevelyn/status/126232593854234624
http://www.aftermath.com/content/human-decomposition