Author Topic: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"  (Read 18416 times)

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Offline Mr Apples

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2021, 01:49:05 PM »
Naturally looking for anyone to come forward who may have been in the vicinity of that woodland on the night of the murder, from 5pm onwards. Masses of information coming in and piece by piece sifted through, extracting the wheat from the chaff. A reported scream would be looked in to, was it innocent?, did it have anything to do with the murder?, then the simple answer is, yes innocent, as it had nothing to do with the murder.

For me these areas leaned upon to deflect are simply just that, deflection.

If people (majority do), look at the stark reality of that search and find that evening then there is no doubt that it was on the basis of special knowledge. Those mere minutes of being together, those mere seconds in that woodland and this claimed discovery. Where the victim is hidden, no one is searching those woods, no dog in it and Mitchells lies heaped on top. Where there is deflection around the police, that they may have thought he had left with Jodi, that they may have thought he was on his own searching, again deflection from reality:

That report of being missing, that attendance at the house filling in that missing person report and bang, found. To arrive at the scene, to see for themselves exactly where this girl was left and you can bet they were suspicious but not for the 'maybes' applied here. And they take those statements and there is that stark contrast in details. Then we add in how LM was when they arrived at locus, then we add in they (all) were actually there due to him, then we add in his calm collectiveness whilst going over that evening.

Then we add in those time differences, of Jodi leaving around 5pm and of Mitchell claiming he left at 5.45 to meet with her. Then we add in her mother stating Jodi should not have been there on her own, then we add in Mitchell claiming he knew nothing of this, claiming that she was walking that very area alone to his.

Then we add in that alibi and that constant change of events as each piece of new evidence came to light. That CCTV, those phone logs, the brother changing to match the mothers, at times she was not even in the house. It is a mess.

Then we add in those eye witnesses, not one but three who all positively ID LM as being the male they saw at either end of that woodland. Then we add in that missing parka that multiple witnesses testified to him having. Then we add in that missing knife, the skunting knife with the brown handle.

Then we add in each and every lie that Mitchell told, not one, not two but repetitive throughout. Then we can think of this convicted murderer, his mother and the allay, that friend. - And they fit together perfectly. Quite literally 'thick as thieves' Where the best way to get to any truth is it not, is to look for the lies.

MrSwah makes statements often, of how SL may get things wrong but they do not believe they would wilfully lie, mislead or be deceptive. Here is an extract from page 127 of IB.

A simple yet damning area. A very telling area of how easily a person can be wilfully misleading, blatantly dishonest IMO, as: The 30th of June that year (2003), was one of grey sky's. Overcast and lower temperatures. Leave aside the weather, how easy it is to simply implant the vision of sunshine for this time of year. Leave aside those people in thick hoodies, parka's and padded blouson jackets. Look up that gate on Newbattle Road, the place of the sighting by F&W. From before this area, almost all the way down to the entrance of LM's housing estate, it is under shade of the canopy of trees on either side of this stretch of road. There is exactly every reason for hair appearing darker, more so when we add in those descriptions of it appearing wet/gelled/greasy even. -And that stark reality that three people ID the exact same person.

Is this a simple error by the author? Is it hell as like as one had studied every inch of every place involved with the evidence of this murder. And you can take this type of blatant manipulation and you can apply it repeatedly. Let us look at another:

LM denied ever seeing that V break in the wall, any break, previous to that search that evening. I brought this up with SL who backed LM's claim by easily and wilfully stating. 'that I too had difficulty finding that V break the first time when searching for it' reason given, the overgrowth she claimed over/around it.  Fine and dandy but not at all accurate is it? As we had with that summer sunshine that day. Backing up CM's claims of enjoying the weather out on her patio, where the author too (conveniently), claims she was also enjoying the weather out on the patio when she was suddenly soaked! But this V break, two of those breaks. The first being some 7ft up from the ground that LM saw easily that night, enough to scale the wall to look over into those woods with his torch. Onto the second break, that V and saw it instantly, straight to it with his dog and into those woods this time. Both in the dark, no blazing sunshine like the numerous other times of walking that path - but we know he was lying and we know he had been over that V many times, witnesses produced for this. And one can not fail to see the break when walking that path, not hard to find at all. But those 'thick as thieves' spot the liars? Or as stated, look for the lies and one will often see the truth.

Mainly of course when one is wilfully lying by omission - Leave out LM's map, leave out his clear lies of where he claimed they were on that path. Leave out his denial of being in the woods and of never seeing those breaks in the wall before, let us instead lie along with him? Back his lies by heaping more on top. This nonsense that they were all in agreement of dogs alerting and leading to Jodi - BS and blatant dishonesty. They were not lying on oath, they were stating as they always had, that LM had went directly to the break with his dog. And every single part of their statements from the off backed this to the hilt. That dogs head level with that V, the dog pulling at that wall directly at that break, that lead being handed over to AW, seeing LM on the other side and turning to his left. Nothing like LM's in the slightest. Of being some distance passed "not even 20yards" of being "parallel" to where Jodi lay in the woods. Of drawing that map with X marks the spot, directly at the spot where Jodi lay, some 40ft+ down from that break. This pawing up on the wall, bounding, air sniffing. - completely and literally miles apart! in distance, description - he was lying.   

The exact reason for that replica wall in the Lake Hall. To place LM exactly where he claimed to be, the search trio exactly where they always claimed to be. Taking that Jury to the locus, letting them see first hand, exactly, the lay of the land. Showing them LM's lies, showing them clearly and unequivocally that LM had special knowledge.

So this 'apparent' scream at 8.30hrs, absolutely nothing to do with this girls death, she had been dead and left hidden by Mitchell some 3hrs before this time. And there has been anything other that truth shown in any attempt to cast doubt upon his guilt. There is of course good reason for this blatant misrepresentation and of course downright lies at points. For there is nothing to show at all that Mitchell did not murder Jodi Jones. Anyone can get caught up in doubt, the capabilities of any human being carrying out such atrocities, just look at Mitchell as a whole and apply any type of 'normal' to his behaviour throughout. - The very reason his defence did not put him on that stand, IMO.

Thanks again for your input, Parky. Btw, what about the sighting of the bike that looked similar to LM’s that day? What time was this at? Did your buddy who was at the trial tell you about this? Do you think LM cycled to meet Jodi? Do you know for a fact that the scream had nothing about Jodi’s death? Was it raised in court?

It’s interesting that DF never allowed LM to take the stand. As articulate and bright as this 14-year-old at the time was, this might’ve just been out of his depth. Or, as other people have mentioned, this seemingly detatched and impervious boy might’ve incriminated himself further with his deameanour, body language and attitude. Would be interesting to know what others think about DF not putting LM on the stand.

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2021, 06:13:41 PM »
Speculation is synonomous with message forums; it’s inevitable, and interesting. Besides, this was an entirely citcumstantial case, so speculation was, and is, unavoidable. As I’ve indicated many times now, the circumstantial evidence against LM was overwhelming. There, I deigned to respond.

I agree…the case as presented to the jury was, if not overwhelming, certainly compelling. Overwhelming would have resulted in a unanimous verdict, of course that’s not what we got.

I do wonder what would have happened if the media had not been given free reign with the police feeding them information or if identity parades had been carried out in the proper manner or if pressure hadn’t been exerted on Shane Mitchell or if Andrina Bryson had stuck to her original statement or indeed if the searchers had stuck to theirs and so many, many more anomalies in the conduct of this case that, if known by the jury, could have without a doubt brought back a very different verdict.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Apples

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2021, 07:38:49 PM »
I agree…the case as presented to the jury was, if not overwhelming, certainly compelling. Overwhelming would have resulted in a unanimous verdict, of course that’s not what we got.

I do wonder what would have happened if the media had not been given free reign with the police feeding them information or if identity parades had been carried out in the proper manner or if pressure hadn’t been exerted on Shane Mitchell or if Andrina Bryson had stuck to her original statement or indeed if the searchers had stuck to theirs and so many, many more anomalies in the conduct of this case that, if known by the jury, could have without a doubt brought back a very different verdict.

I’m sitting here in company having a few drinks, but I’ll give this a bash. This is one of those unique cases where, simultaneously, a miscarriage of justice likely had taken place, but where the defendent is still guilty. Come on, Faith, admit it — you think he’s guilty. Deep down, you think he is — regardless of the flaws in the investigation. The police had to employ those seemingly unorthodox tactics in order to go ‘to-to-toe’ with an underhand, devious and intelligent teenager — the same teenager that needed no intervention from social workers. The identity parades would’ve, imo, resulted in the same outcome —  i.e., “There’s the guy with the clumps sticking up at the  back! That’s him. There he is!” Maybe not, though. The problem with identity parades, in this case, is that LM was still developing and going through puberty; he might’ve been unrecognisible by the time those ID parades came around. There’s a reason why statement changes are permissible in Scottish Law: people are initially affected by stress and trauma, and not all first accounts are the most accurate. Many, many more anomalies? Why not list ‘em, instead of glib generalisations? It sounded good, eh, Faith? In summation: the police may not have banked on Luke being Luke, but he and his family sure as hell didn’t bank on the police being the police; they were one step ahead. And thank god for that!!

Ps: Would you trust Luke Mitchell around your children, nephews and nieces? I unequivocally wouldn’t!

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2021, 10:57:05 PM »
I’m sitting here in company having a few drinks, but I’ll give this a bash. This is one of those unique cases where, simultaneously, a miscarriage of justice likely had taken place, but where the defendent is still guilty. Come on, Faith, admit it — you think he’s guilty. Deep down, you think he is — regardless of the flaws in the investigation. The police had to employ those seemingly unorthodox tactics in order to go ‘to-to-toe’ with an underhand, devious and intelligent teenager — the same teenager that needed no intervention from social workers. The identity parades would’ve, imo, resulted in the same outcome —  i.e., “There’s the guy with the clumps sticking up at the  back! That’s him. There he is!” Maybe not, though. The problem with identity parades, in this case, is that LM was still developing and going through puberty; he might’ve been unrecognisible by the time those ID parades came around. There’s a reason why statement changes are permissible in Scottish Law: people are initially affected by stress and trauma, and not all first accounts are the most accurate. Many, many more anomalies? Why not list ‘em, instead of glib generalisations? It sounded good, eh, Faith? In summation: the police may not have banked on Luke being Luke, but he and his family sure as hell didn’t bank on the police being the police; they were one step ahead. And thank god for that!!

Ps: Would you trust Luke Mitchell around your children, nephews and nieces? I unequivocally wouldn’t!


Unorthodox tactics? Such as?

Flaws in the investigation? What do you consider those to be?

Unrecognisable by the time the ID parades came about? Are you really suggesting that Luke would have changed beyond all recognition from the beginning of July to the middle of August? Really? May I suggest that it would take a transition the like of only seen in gothic tales of werewolves for that to be believable.

Further, according to experts, the first statements of witnesses are  almost always the most reliable and also Andrina Bryson had suffered no stress or trauma and was simply trying to help so why would the timings in her first statements be unreliable?

More anomalies? LK not mentioning a strangling sound in his first statements.
Neighbours who knew Jodie claiming they saw her leave her house after 5pm.
No DNA of Luke’s on Jodi.
No scratches or marks of a struggle on Luke.
Why when the parka jacket was such a main component of the prosecution’s case did the witnesses who allegedly saw Luke that evening not claim that their sighting was wearing a parka…in fact quite the opposite with Andrina Bryson.
The jogger not being where RW claimed.

And on and on.


« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 12:20:00 AM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2021, 11:07:48 AM »

Unorthodox tactics? Such as?

Flaws in the investigation? What do you consider those to be?

Unrecognisable by the time the ID parades came about? Are you really suggesting that Luke would have changed beyond all recognition from the beginning of July to the middle of August? Really? May I suggest that it would take a transition the like of only seen in gothic tales of werewolves for that to be believable.

Further, according to experts, the first statements of witnesses are  almost always the most reliable and also Andrina Bryson had suffered no stress or trauma and was simply trying to help so why would the timings in her first statements be unreliable?

More anomalies? LK not mentioning a strangling sound in his first statements.
Neighbours who knew Jodie claiming they saw her leave her house after 5pm.
No DNA of Luke’s on Jodi.
No scratches or marks of a struggle on Luke.
Why when the parka jacket was such a main component of the prosecution’s case did the witnesses who allegedly saw Luke that evening not claim that their sighting was wearing a parka…in fact quite the opposite with Andrina Bryson.
The jogger not being where RW claimed.

And on and on.

The only clear level of flaws is the intellect of those who live in the pages of that book and into a doc based upon it:

Where you keep mentioning the evidence presented to a Jury, yet know virtually nothing of the actual evidence presented, why? - For you live in the pages of a book, with some manipulation of cherry picked excerpts of the defence. 99% of the Crowns case is actually missing. The questioning of each witness on the stand.

90% of the book is around deflection into other areas.

How does your first statement repetition go? - CM and LM's completely wiped out by SM's first statement. So there you have it. No Luke home just as he always stated. from first to the stand. - I did not see my brother.

Don't forget Luke's first either. Listening to that music now. So never saw him never heard him. 

CM I got home at my usual time. No she didn't she got home no earlier than 5.15pm. Can't have been mistaken, first account mind, always correct. LM, mum got home at her usual time. Really, so not mistaken mind, always accurate. Lying

CM. Luke left home around 5.45pm. LM. I left home around 5.45pm. "Where did you make the call from Luke?" The wall at the entrance of my estate. "This is at 5.32pm Luke?"

CM - I was in the garden enjoying the sunshine. 'It was not sunny Corinne'  Lying.

We can stop there - Just highlighting parts of those first accounts.

In short, one who did not see nor hear his brother. Two in harmony of completely impossible information. Which is concocted? The lies of course.

Now we add in the author and claiming CM simply reminded her son Shane it was the day of the burnt pies:

We move onto his change - 'I remember now, we had burnt pies for dinner. Mum got in at her usual time, I went down to greet her, asked her how her day had been. The time was just after five, her usual time of getting home. Luke was mashing tatties. I went back to my room and mum shouted me for dinner around ten minutes later. So we have those two sets of concocted lies now including a third person to go along with them. A period of time that the mother was not even home. We can't fast forward it. We can't say it was really 5.15 he came to say hi to mum, ask her how her day had been, returning upstairs and all else - as LM was out the door by 5.30pm, as of course was Shane?

Will we add in more? - Luke came out back to say bye to me. He was going to see Jodi. The time was around Qtr to 6. He was wearing a manky, dirty top. Told him to change it, he told me it was Jodi's favourite top. Not for much longer it won't be laddie if you don't stop wearing it. He had on his thick, green blouson Jacket with orange lining. No idea why, I mean it was sunny and warm, I was soaking it up in the garden?! Didn't say anything of that to him though. I did however when we went shopping and he wanted that big parka jacket with the German army badge on it. 'Luke it is summer time, you don't wear jackets. I mean you literally could not get him to wear one. He told me it would be winter soon and I saw the sale sign, well I just had to buy it' - evidently no problem on this warm summers, sunny evening wearing a jacket.

Then we just simply add in the intellect of those soaking up that book. Making statements of evidence presented to a Jury. Telling people there was not enough evidence for a conviction. So 9 weeks later and a handful of cherry picked defence excerpts from a book, and one is suddenly an expert on there being no case to answer to? Where the gullibility is second to none. - Who states, 'she may get things wrong but I trust her' So you are in reality shown b....r all in the grand scheme of things, your few sandwiches short attempt is simply that - blind faith.

Where all you actually do do, is attempt to act intelligent. - you fail miserably where this case is concerned. Mimicking the author repeatedly. First statements jargon, evidence before a jury, what about AB's call to hubby. I am actually surprised you have not come out with the nonsense around the speaking clock yet.

We look at these others! And it is full of not sure's . Approximations and guesswork. The only people to be precise in anything was LM and his mother. So precise it simply crumbled and disintegrated as each piece of evidence came to light. This constant bleat, that they were the only consistent accounts, yes consistently false. Those constant bleats that their statements didn't change. What a bloody hoot! The only ones who's statements who had to consistently change due to evidence coming to light. That caused repetitive change in those lies.

But this author and her honesty. Where your repetition is the exact same. As with MrSwah. 'She may get things wrong but don't believe she would wilfully mislead/lie' Like SL and stating CM is simply mistaken, not lying just confused.

This bloody weather on the 30th of June. Where I highlighted how easily someone can insert narrative that is blatantly false, to back up her own nonsense. This F&W and the dark hair. Nothing she states to make that hair appear darker, no outside factors. No, just the lack of sunshine and of course the shade of those trees. To the present day and she is talking of people wearing hoodies and she states 

 "Aside from never seeing any evidence whatsoever of this "second blue hoodie," it's something of a ridiculous suggestion that, on a warm (but wet) summer evening, Jodi was wearing a blue hoodie over her Black deftones hoodie"

So there you have it again, from "what was a bright sunny evening around 6pm" to "on a warm (but wet) summer evening" - where her contradictions are literally like weather, ever changeable to suit the narrative at the time.

Perhaps being more public, perhaps more people stepping forward and saying, it was a day of grey sky's, overcast with cooler temps. These thick hoodies, parka jackets and thick blousons.

And we go back to CM and those fibs! Of being out on the patio enjoying the weather ------ to fire's giving off lots of smoke, no doubt dampened by rain! To the author backing CM and stating she too was out on her patio, reading in the sunshine!

Thankfully Faith the support with this clear level of intellect and as the author rightly states, why lie to aid a dangerous person being freed? Where lies are the last thing that will gain anyone freedom. - None of it, the support of the lies and all else, matter a Jot where the safety of LM's conviction is concerned. They pose no threat, just a whole lot of gullible people who claim instantly they give this support on the basis of blind faith. We do not need to see proof under the safety net of Scots law and disclosure. We simply accept the authors word. "buy the book" it is "everything you need to know on this case" - hook. line and sinker. Soaked up, churned round and spat back out with additives.

So please, one can not keep repeating the same old nonsense, of there not being enough evidence before a Jury, when one has no bloody idea of what was before the Jury. Those recordings for a start, the phone logs of the speaking clock, those first statements read and gone over by the prosecution, you know the one's you keep harping on about. Where that search trio from the off stated, LM and his dog went directly to that break in the wall. So it is not about "40yards, 20 feet, parallel to, no one cares" It is everything about nothing to do with the dam dog, and everything to do with LM's lies.


Offline Nicholas

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2021, 08:28:53 PM »
The only clear level of flaws is the intellect of those who live in the pages of that book and into a doc based upon it:

Where you keep mentioning the evidence presented to a Jury, yet know virtually nothing of the actual evidence presented, why? - For you live in the pages of a book, with some manipulation of cherry picked excerpts of the defence. 99% of the Crowns case is actually missing. The questioning of each witness on the stand.

90% of the book is around deflection into other areas.

How does your first statement repetition go? - CM and LM's completely wiped out by SM's first statement. So there you have it. No Luke home just as he always stated. from first to the stand. - I did not see my brother.

Don't forget Luke's first either. Listening to that music now. So never saw him never heard him. 

CM I got home at my usual time. No she didn't she got home no earlier than 5.15pm. Can't have been mistaken, first account mind, always correct. LM, mum got home at her usual time. Really, so not mistaken mind, always accurate. Lying

CM. Luke left home around 5.45pm. LM. I left home around 5.45pm. "Where did you make the call from Luke?" The wall at the entrance of my estate. "This is at 5.32pm Luke?"

CM - I was in the garden enjoying the sunshine. 'It was not sunny Corinne'  Lying.

We can stop there - Just highlighting parts of those first accounts.

In short, one who did not see nor hear his brother. Two in harmony of completely impossible information. Which is concocted? The lies of course.

Now we add in the author and claiming CM simply reminded her son Shane it was the day of the burnt pies:

We move onto his change - 'I remember now, we had burnt pies for dinner. Mum got in at her usual time, I went down to greet her, asked her how her day had been. The time was just after five, her usual time of getting home. Luke was mashing tatties. I went back to my room and mum shouted me for dinner around ten minutes later. So we have those two sets of concocted lies now including a third person to go along with them. A period of time that the mother was not even home. We can't fast forward it. We can't say it was really 5.15 he came to say hi to mum, ask her how her day had been, returning upstairs and all else - as LM was out the door by 5.30pm, as of course was Shane?

Will we add in more? - Luke came out back to say bye to me. He was going to see Jodi. The time was around Qtr to 6. He was wearing a manky, dirty top. Told him to change it, he told me it was Jodi's favourite top. Not for much longer it won't be laddie if you don't stop wearing it. He had on his thick, green blouson Jacket with orange lining. No idea why, I mean it was sunny and warm, I was soaking it up in the garden?! Didn't say anything of that to him though. I did however when we went shopping and he wanted that big parka jacket with the German army badge on it. 'Luke it is summer time, you don't wear jackets. I mean you literally could not get him to wear one. He told me it would be winter soon and I saw the sale sign, well I just had to buy it' - evidently no problem on this warm summers, sunny evening wearing a jacket.

Then we just simply add in the intellect of those soaking up that book. Making statements of evidence presented to a Jury. Telling people there was not enough evidence for a conviction. So 9 weeks later and a handful of cherry picked defence excerpts from a book, and one is suddenly an expert on there being no case to answer to? Where the gullibility is second to none. - Who states, 'she may get things wrong but I trust her' So you are in reality shown b....r all in the grand scheme of things, your few sandwiches short attempt is simply that - blind faith.

Where all you actually do do, is attempt to act intelligent. - you fail miserably where this case is concerned. Mimicking the author repeatedly. First statements jargon, evidence before a jury, what about AB's call to hubby. I am actually surprised you have not come out with the nonsense around the speaking clock yet.

We look at these others! And it is full of not sure's . Approximations and guesswork. The only people to be precise in anything was LM and his mother. So precise it simply crumbled and disintegrated as each piece of evidence came to light. This constant bleat, that they were the only consistent accounts, yes consistently false. Those constant bleats that their statements didn't change. What a bloody hoot! The only ones who's statements who had to consistently change due to evidence coming to light. That caused repetitive change in those lies.

But this author and her honesty. Where your repetition is the exact same. As with MrSwah. 'She may get things wrong but don't believe she would wilfully mislead/lie' Like SL and stating CM is simply mistaken, not lying just confused.

This bloody weather on the 30th of June. Where I highlighted how easily someone can insert narrative that is blatantly false, to back up her own nonsense. This F&W and the dark hair. Nothing she states to make that hair appear darker, no outside factors. No, just the lack of sunshine and of course the shade of those trees. To the present day and she is talking of people wearing hoodies and she states 

 "Aside from never seeing any evidence whatsoever of this "second blue hoodie," it's something of a ridiculous suggestion that, on a warm (but wet) summer evening, Jodi was wearing a blue hoodie over her Black deftones hoodie"

So there you have it again, from "what was a bright sunny evening around 6pm" to "on a warm (but wet) summer evening" - where her contradictions are literally like weather, ever changeable to suit the narrative at the time.

Perhaps being more public, perhaps more people stepping forward and saying, it was a day of grey sky's, overcast with cooler temps. These thick hoodies, parka jackets and thick blousons.

And we go back to CM and those fibs! Of being out on the patio enjoying the weather ------ to fire's giving off lots of smoke, no doubt dampened by rain! To the author backing CM and stating she too was out on her patio, reading in the sunshine!

Thankfully Faith the support with this clear level of intellect and as the author rightly states, why lie to aid a dangerous person being freed? Where lies are the last thing that will gain anyone freedom. - None of it, the support of the lies and all else, matter a Jot where the safety of LM's conviction is concerned. They pose no threat, just a whole lot of gullible people who claim instantly they give this support on the basis of blind faith. We do not need to see proof under the safety net of Scots law and disclosure. We simply accept the authors word. "buy the book" it is "everything you need to know on this case" - hook. line and sinker. Soaked up, churned round and spat back out with additives.

So please, one can not keep repeating the same old nonsense, of there not being enough evidence before a Jury, when one has no bloody idea of what was before the Jury. Those recordings for a start, the phone logs of the speaking clock, those first statements read and gone over by the prosecution, you know the one's you keep harping on about. Where that search trio from the off stated, LM and his dog went directly to that break in the wall. So it is not about "40yards, 20 feet, parallel to, no one cares" It is everything about nothing to do with the dam dog, and everything to do with LM's lies.

She would and she does
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline rulesapply

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2021, 08:48:00 PM »
“That ‘half a Mars bar situ’ repeatedly?”

You’ve alluded to this half a Mars bar several times in the past . . . what does it mean? What is its significance? Is it some kind of metaphor or comparison? Or was half a Mars bar used in evidence during the trial? Never read about it other than in several of your past posts. Just curious about it.

IMO, wouldn't have mattered what was thrown. The only time I have heard of half a bar of Mars being thrown was by SL on a YouTube video. If it was mentioned in court, I haven't read it. Only half a Mars Bar, mind? Not a whole one.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 08:56:06 PM by rulesapply »

Offline rulesapply

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2021, 11:03:35 PM »

Unorthodox tactics? Such as?

Flaws in the investigation? What do you consider those to be?

Unrecognisable by the time the ID parades came about? Are you really suggesting that Luke would have changed beyond all recognition from the beginning of July to the middle of August? Really? May I suggest that it would take a transition the like of only seen in gothic tales of werewolves for that to be believable.

Further, according to experts, the first statements of witnesses are  almost always the most reliable and also Andrina Bryson had suffered no stress or trauma and was simply trying to help so why would the timings in her first statements be unreliable?

More anomalies? LK not mentioning a strangling sound in his first statements.
Neighbours who knew Jodie claiming they saw her leave her house after 5pm.
No DNA of Luke’s on Jodi.
No scratches or marks of a struggle on Luke.
Why when the parka jacket was such a main component of the prosecution’s case did the witnesses who allegedly saw Luke that evening not claim that their sighting was wearing a parka…in fact quite the opposite with Andrina Bryson.
The jogger not being where RW claimed.

And on and on.
Luke Mitchell had a parka. He changed his jacket. If not, why was Kane's parka so important? Kane didn't have a bomber jacket as far as I'm aware but he did have a parka. Had Kane had a bomber jacket we would all have  known a long time ago. One boy, two jackets.

Offline Mr Apples

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2022, 05:44:39 AM »
The parts I’ve highlighted in bold are what interest me. Certainly not enough to sway my opinion to innocent, but Bryson’s words here make me feel uneasy. She honestly initially thought LM was in his early 20s?? And the boy and girl she saw didn’t look like they were coming to meet?? Yikes!

The trial also heard evidence yesterday from a woman who said she noticed a man and a girl at the head of the path on the day Jodi was killed.

Andrina Bryson said she later saw a picture of Luke Mitchell in the Daily Record and she was taken aback because he looked like the person she had seen.

Mrs Bryson, 26, said she was driving home shortly before 5pm when she spotted the girl and the young man at the Easthouses entrance to the path.

She reported what she had seen to the police and they came to her house on August 14 with a sheet of photos of 12 young men.

She picked out one and told the court: 'In relation to the person I had seen, he looked like that person.'

The next day she saw a photo of Mitchell in the Record.

Mrs Bryson said: 'I just couldn't believe it. It looked like the same person I had seen.'


Asked whether she recognised the person in court, the witness replied: 'I don't know.' Cross-examined by Mr Findlay, Mrs Bryson said when she saw the two people at the path entrance, the male had his arms at his side with his palms facing out towards the female.

She continued: 'It looked very strange. They didn't seem to be coming to meet.

'The girl was stopped and she was looking and the other person stopped and was looking. I just wondered, 'What's happening there'.'

Mrs Bryson admitted that when quizzed by the police about the sighting, she had estimated the girl was 14 or 15 but the man was in his early 20s.


Mitchell denies murdering Jodi by striking her with a knife or similar instrument.

He has lodged defences of alibi and incrimination to the murder allegation.

Mitchell also denies carrying a knife or knives and supplying cannabis.The trial continues.


https://www.thefreelibrary.com/I+HEARD+STRANGLING+NOISE+NEAR+JODI+PATH%3b+Cyclist+tells+death+trial+of...-a0125547921

Offline Mr Apples

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2022, 08:03:44 PM »

Realism - The youth ID as being LM in EasthoTuse's was wearing a khaki green jacket, hair style that reminded her of the actor who played "Shaggy" in the 2002 adaption of "Scooby Doo" the movie. She was "as sure as could be" that this male was Luke Mitchell. And this does not stand alone, as she noticed a badge which was a German Army badge.

The male who was seen and positively ID as being LM by two people, some 45mins later was also wearing a khaki green jacket, with straggly hair. And they also mentioned this German army badge on that jacket.

Parky41, if you are still out there, I'd be grateful if you could tell me where you heard about AB & LF & RW mentioning the German army badge on LM's jacket. I've probably read every single online news article there is in counction with this case, read all replies on various forums that discuss this case, read SL's IB, and yet I've never, not once, read a single thing about any of those 3 women mentioning the German army badge on LM's parka jacket. I know they all testified about seeing LM in a longish khaki, olive green parka type jacket (a jacket that 8 separate witnesses testified in court that he had owned before 30.06.03), but I've never read a single solitary thing about any witness referencing this badge. Anyone else on the forums have a cite for this?

Offline Parky41

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2022, 08:49:01 PM »
Parky41, if you are still out there, I'd be grateful if you could tell me where you heard about AB & LF & RW mentioning the German army badge on LM's jacket. I've probably read every single online news article there is in counction with this case, read all replies on various forums that discuss this case, read SL's IB, and yet I've never, not once, read a single thing about any of those 3 women mentioning the German army badge on LM's parka jacket. I know they all testified about seeing LM in a longish khaki, olive green parka type jacket (a jacket that 8 separate witnesses testified in court that he had owned before 30.06.03), but I've never read a single solitary thing about any witness referencing this badge. Anyone else on the forums have a cite for this?

Well that of course is the never ending problem with the limitation of what can be sourced. - Very much why certain people have attempted to monopolise the case, manipulate around what they know is limited. The warning of those fearing the truth, the demand for cites and so forth.

Many people testified and many more gave statements around the Germany style khaki green army type jacket. I will draw your attention to something else here. The author makes inference of the police simply making up the statements around this, not true at all. Where of course we are left with the limits of what she has had access to, the manipulation around all else. Of what the defence may have retained to do with proceedings of witnesses at court.

It is mid-June 2003 and there is a 'gig' taken place in Edinburgh, a band by the name of "Ramage Inc" were playing. Many people attended this and many did give statements, and yes at court also. Most not used of course, simply no need. There was ample enough from different times, different connections and occasions who proved without doubt that coat existed and disappeared. So Ms Lean is wrong and no doubt she knows this.

LM attended this 'gig' with Jodi Jones and he was wearing his fashion, his style, his heavier outer garment, that Army style parka complete with German badge. It is mid- June and it is summertime.

As with the other witnesses, the time of year it was simply what he liked to wear irrespective of the weather. One can take themselves now to the 30th of June in these quiet suburbs. The East end in that lane, this youth in summertime wearing his fashion, his style. Odd enough to see in a place not heavily populated by many people walking around. We move forward around 45mins, a short distance away, to an area where it is extremely odd to see pedestrians, and there is this youth, in his fashion, his dress sense wearing that heavier outer garment - That Khaki green, army style jacket, army fishing style, whatever - The army highlighted by colour and that badge. Then we add in the hair the identifications of this male who was the same person, same clothing. It was LM wearing his style, his dress sense, his fashion.

We move forward to after the murder and he buys a new coat, in his style, his fashion, his dress sense, this heavier outer garment worn still in summertime.

We revert to those little clues, those contradictions that flow in IB. When one is attempting to highlight information around MB (AB's) brother-in-law, of telling people that she had seen this male dressed in army style clothing. And of F&W. And of the other witnesses.

And it does all tie together for many reasons - least not this lad, this youth who simply wore that clothing irrespective of time of year. Seen and Identified that day by three people, not one. In quiet areas, this was no coincidence, this was no mistaken Identity, this was without a doubt LM. 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 08:51:40 PM by Parky41 »

Offline faithlilly

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2022, 12:06:11 AM »


It is mid-June 2003 and there is a 'gig' taken place in Edinburgh, a band by the name of "Ramage Inc" were playing. Many people attended this and many did give statements, and yes at court also. Most not used of course, simply no need. There was ample enough from different times, different connections and occasions who proved without doubt that coat existed and disappeared. So Ms Lean is wrong and no doubt she knows this.

This ‘Ramage Inc’ ?

https://www.spirit-of-metal.com/en/band/Ramage_Inc.

Formed in 2004?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 12:20:06 AM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Parky41

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2022, 10:00:53 AM »
This ‘Ramage Inc’ ?

https://www.spirit-of-metal.com/en/band/Ramage_Inc.

Formed in 2004?

https://www.concertarchives.org/bands/ramage-inc


Ramage Inc. Concert History
5 Concerts
Ramage Inc. is a progressive metal band from Edinburgh that formed around 2003. The band was formed by Bryan Ramage for the purpose of bringing life to his musical work on stage. Together with his faithful musical companions, the music takes on a new level of energy and elegance in a live environment. Devin Townsend, Vast, Nine Inch Nails, Deftones and Opeth are all cited as being big influences.


Actually they formed together before 2004. Here is a little further information for you that I have been supplied with. The drummer who played at the 'gig' that LM went to with Jodi Jones was a relative of Jodi's thus the reason they went to see them. The band needed a replacement drummer to help at the time.

Hope that clarifies matters for you

Offline Parky41

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2022, 10:41:06 AM »
https://www.concertarchives.org/bands/ramage-inc


Ramage Inc. Concert History
5 Concerts
Ramage Inc. is a progressive metal band from Edinburgh that formed around 2003. The band was formed by Bryan Ramage for the purpose of bringing life to his musical work on stage. Together with his faithful musical companions, the music takes on a new level of energy and elegance in a live environment. Devin Townsend, Vast, Nine Inch Nails, Deftones and Opeth are all cited as being big influences.


Actually they formed together before 2004. Here is a little further information for you that I have been supplied with. The drummer who played at the 'gig' that LM went to with Jodi Jones was a relative? of Jodi's thus the reason they went to see them. The band needed a replacement drummer to help at the time.

Hope that clarifies matters for you

Therefore yes, I assume it is one and the same band, certainly called the same although my brain cottoned on to 'Ink' as opposed to 'Inc' - Most definitely "Ramage --" and certainly that the drummer was a stand in at the time and connected to Jodi Jones.

The wonderful world of the grapevine, those many people through the years talking of LM and his "magic coat" as one innocent supporter calls it. To the point being made, that many people saw LM wearing this style, his fashion irrespective of the time of year. And he was certainly wearing his style that day when seen by AB and F&W. In those quiet suburbs in Midlothian. The very reason for the desperation in trying to split these sightings, attempting to make them into different people - They were not, they were of LM in Easthouses and around 45mins later on Newbattle Road. The very reason for an author who simply pushes out disinformation in an attempt to lesson the validity of these sightings:

Those clear lies of that bright sunshine and no other outside factors to make hair appear darker. Why does one assume this type of disinformation is wilfully spread? Reaching out to the wider public who would take no time to fact check this nonsense. That lane and area of Newbattle Road, both shaded. A day of grey skies but as one supporter states 'I know there are lies but I still believe ------' Fantastic stuff, how does one even begin then to know what is actually true? from someone who wilfully lies? In the exact same fashion as Mitchell of course, the abundance of lies flowing, how did the author even begin to determine what was true and false? Taken it on board and hiding those lies one after the other - This 'Truthseeker?'

Offline Mr Apples

Re: "Laughable eyewitness testimony"
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2022, 03:57:12 PM »
Thanks once again for your reply, parky41. I never doubted that the German army badge was mentioned by those 3 women . . . it's just that I'd hitherto never read a single solitary thing about it. Did you read about it on that private group you are a member of? The group which has members who were at the actual trial?

And I agree about LM's hair colour appearing darker or lighter, depending on the weather. For example, in the pics of LM at Jodi's grave with his mother & LW, his hair appears a lot lighter and radiant -- like a platinum blonde colour -- due to the very sunny weather that day. This is in stark contrast to the colour of his hair in the pic of him leaving his house in NB Abbey Crescent wearing parka jacket number 2 (the probable replacement jacket that was bought about a week after the murder). In that pic, it was a very dull day and LM's hair looked considerably darker that it did in the graveside pic -- so much so that you could definitely excuse someone for describing his hair colour as dark (and even more so when matted down with hair gel as those 2 women mentioned when they saw the suspicious-looking youth at that gate on the NB Rd that day at 1745).

And on the subject of parka jacket number 2 -- what do you all think about it being purchased? It's very strange, isn't it? Obviously LM liked it, and was coddled and indulged by his mother (i.e, what Luke wanted, Luke got). Wasn't he and his mother worried that purchasing it would come back to bite them? LM was obviously aware that there was a strong chance that people saw him wearing it that day between 1645 - 1745. He and mother Corinne were probably very confident at that point that the purchase of a new jacket wouldn't be problematic as they had (probably, imo) destroyed the first jacket completely in a fire (or got SM to dispose of it some 7 or 8 miles away; it was ascertained that SM was at a petrol station 7 miles away on 30.06.03). They knew the jacket would never be found and knew there were no photos of Luke wearing it (if there were any such photos, they were probably burned too?). Perhaps purchasing that second parka jacket was a decoy of sorts, in that the Mitchells probably assumed the police would have assumed they wouldn't be so stupid to buy an identical jacket to the one LM was wearing when he murdered his girlfriend? Who knows. At the end of the day, I think the Mitchells underestimated the police and circumstantial evidence. What are your thoughts on the purchase of this second parka jacket?