UK Justice Forum

UK and North American politics. => A look at British politics in the light of the decision to leave the EU. => Topic started by: faithlilly on January 12, 2020, 12:53:12 AM

Title: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 12, 2020, 12:53:12 AM
An excellent opinion piece from a life long Tory on Johnsonís capacity for lying and why he canít be trusted.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/11/peter-oborne-s-diary-boris-johnson-s-nhs-lies-my-bulging-dossier-deceit-and

And Osborneís list of Johnsonís lies.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Does honesty in politics really not matter anymore and if it does why are we prepared to stomach Johnsonís terminal dishonesty ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: mrswah on January 12, 2020, 07:21:13 PM
IMO, of course it is important that politicians should be honest, and I doubt that Boris is the only one who has lied.

Why are we wiling to put up with him?  Many of us are not, but he won the election, so we have no choice--------unfortunately. 
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 18, 2020, 10:53:44 AM
Pertinent here too.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/the-conservative-party-anti-semitism-crisis-nobody-talks-about/06/12/#.Xh2StSyehxk.facebook
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2020, 05:44:43 PM
Pertinent here too.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/the-conservative-party-anti-semitism-crisis-nobody-talks-about/06/12/#.Xh2StSyehxk.facebook
No, because people canít get over the letterbox comment, itís kind of boring now.  We expect Tories to be vile racist pigs though donít we?  Itís a given, so less commentworthy than when a right on, politically correct, inclusive ďhasnít-got-a-racist-bone-in-his-bodyĒ saint like JC turns a blind eye to it in his own party.  IMO.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 18, 2020, 06:14:15 PM
No, because people canít get over the letterbox comment, itís kind of boring now.  We expect Tories to be vile racist pigs though donít we?  Itís a given, so less commentworthy than when a right on, politically correct, inclusive ďhasnít-got-a-racist-bone-in-his-bodyĒ saint like JC turns a blind eye to it in his own party.  IMO.

Turns a blind eye ? So far as leader he has put new procedures in place to deal with any claims of [ censored word]emitism quicker and has also mounted an investigation into the subject. That you and the vested interests donít feel that thatís enough is for you to deal with.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2020, 06:41:20 PM
Turns a blind eye ? So far as leader he has put new procedures in place to deal with any claims of [ censored word]emitism quicker and has also mounted an investigation into the subject. That you and the vested interests donít feel that thatís enough is for you to deal with.
Yes, turned a blind eye, didnít act fast enough or firmly enough.  Dilly-dallied.  Weak, ineffectual leadership but, hey, this thread is about Boris isnít it?  I donít have to deal with anything, Labour do.  Sort it out!!
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 18, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Yes, turned a blind eye, didnít act fast enough or firmly enough.  Dilly-dallied.  Weak, ineffectual leadership but, hey, this thread is about Boris isnít it?  I donít have to deal with anything, Labour do.  Sort it out!!


Mmmmmm....not according to many Jewish members of the U.K.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-crucial-ally-in-fight-against-[ censored word]emitism



Jeremy Corbynís Labour is a crucial ally in the fight against [ censored word]emitism
Over 200 Jewish members and supporters of the Labour party sign a letter urging that anyone seeking an end to bigotry and racism should back Labour and Corbyn
Letters
Wed 20 Feb 2019 18.39 GMT Last modified on Sat 23 Feb 2019 21.12 GMT

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 Jeremy Corbyn
 Jeremy Corbyn. ĎLabour governments introduced both the anti-racist and human rights legislation of the 20th century and the 2010 Equalities Act.í Photograph: Matthew Horwood/Getty
You report (19 February) that a number of implacably anti-Corbyn MPs have left the Labour party alleging a failed ďapproach to dealing with [ censored word]emitismĒ, with Luciana Berger criticising Labour for becoming ďsickeningly institutionally racistĒ.

We are Jewish members and supporters of the Labour party concerned about the current rise of reactionary ideologies, including [ censored word]emitism, in Britain and elsewhere across Europe.

We note the worrying growth of populist rightwing parties, encouraging racism, Islamophobia and [ censored word]emitism. In Britain the far right is whipping up these prejudices, a threat that requires a resolute and energetic response. But instead we have seen a disproportionate focus on [ censored word]emitism on the left, which is abhorrent but relatively rare.

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We believe that the Labour party under the progressive leadership of Jeremy Corbyn is a crucial ally in the fight against bigotry and reaction. His lifetime record of campaigning for equality and human rights, including consistent support for initiatives against [ censored word]emitism, is formidable. His involvement strengthens this struggle.

Labour governments introduced both the anti-racist and human rights legislation of the 20th century and the 2010 Equalities Act. A Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn will be a powerful force to fight against racism, Islamophobia and [ censored word]emitism.

It is in this context that we welcome the Labour partyís endorsement of freedom of expression on Israel and on the rights of Palestinians. Labour is correct to recognise that while prejudice against Jewish people is deplorable, criticism of Israelís government and policies can and must be made.


Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
 Read more
We urge all who wish to see an end to bigotry and racism, and who seek a more just society, to give their support to the Labour party.

Prof Elizabeth Dore
Prof David Epstein
Prof Gene Feder
Mike Leigh
Prof Mica Nava
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Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2020, 07:33:01 PM
There will always turkeys who vote for Christmas IMO.  I suppose the views of all the Jews who left the party or who spoke out against Corbyn or who were racially abused by other Labour members or who encountered [ censored word]emitism within the party donít count.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 18, 2020, 07:49:30 PM
There will always turkeys who vote for Christmas IMO.  I suppose the views of all the Jews who left the party or who spoke out against Corbyn or who were racially abused by other Labour members or who encountered [ censored word]emitism within the party donít count.

Name them....as I have ? ( please exclude those with preexisting ties to Israel- friendly groups or  organisations ).

BTW are you suggesting that the Jewish people mentioned in my post are too stupid not to recognise they are part of a party which tolerates ant-semitism ? Isnít that anti-Semitic in itself ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2020, 08:53:39 PM

I was hoping not to have to comment, but Jew hating makes me sick to my stomach.  I will never be able to understand this.

But never mind eh!  We don't all feel like that.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 18, 2020, 09:03:28 PM
I was hoping not to have to comment, but Jew hating makes me sick to my stomach.  I will never be able to understand this.

But never mind eh!  We don't all feel like that.

I will never understand any kind of racism.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 18, 2020, 09:29:48 PM
I was hoping not to have to comment, but Jew hating makes me sick to my stomach.  I will never be able to understand this.

But never mind eh!  We don't all feel like that.

[ censored word]emitism might by now have been a thing of the past, had the Nazis won.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Eleanor on January 18, 2020, 09:35:02 PM
I will never understand any kind of racism.

And I believe that you don't.  But defining Racism is very difficult, and only too often something as seen as Racism when it actually isn't.

We demean the whole thing without much thought.

I have always been a little on the brown side.  My skin is darker than most English people, but then my father looked like  a Ghurka.  And never anyone more Irish than he was.

I have always been a bit pleased to be a bit more brown.  Crass by half, eh what.

Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 18, 2020, 11:10:51 PM
Name them....as I have ? ( please exclude those with preexisting ties to Israel- friendly groups or  organisations ).

BTW are you suggesting that the Jewish people mentioned in my post are too stupid not to recognise they are part of a party which tolerates ant-semitism ? Isnít that anti-Semitic in itself ?
Of course itís not anti-semitic, or explain exactly why it is, then explain why it is not anti-semitic to criticise Jews who left the Labour Party on the grounds of [ censored word]emitism while youíre at it.. 

 You want the names of every Jew who quit the Labour Party because of anti-semitism, but on your terms only??  Thatís very reasonable Iím sure.  @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 19, 2020, 12:09:11 AM
Of course itís not anti-semitic, or explain exactly why it is, then explain why it is not anti-semitic to criticise Jews who left the Labour Party on the grounds of [ censored word]emitism while youíre at it.. 

 You want the names of every Jew who quit the Labour Party because of anti-semitism, but on your terms only??  Thatís very reasonable Iím sure.  @)(++(*

The amount that I have posted who support Corbyn and the Labour Party will do.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 19, 2020, 12:14:25 AM
Donít you ever get sick of this childish name calling ? Are we really not better than that too ?
I think anyone who takes time to write in favour of Nazis and extermination of the Jews on a public forum deliberately to goad and stir things up can rightly be described as a childish prat.  I certainly do not feel ashamed of doing so and donít need any lectures from you on the rights and wrongs of online name calling.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 19, 2020, 12:16:31 AM
The amount that I have posted who support Corbyn and the Labour Party will do.
No it wonít.  I can post information showing far greater numbers than you have posted of Jews dissatisfied with Labour and its handling of [ censored word]emitism and you will 100% certainly find some reason to disqualify it .
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 19, 2020, 12:23:20 AM
I think anyone who takes time to write in favour of Nazis and extermination of the Jews on a public forum deliberately to goad and stir things up can rightly be described as a childish prat.  I certainly do not feel ashamed of doing so and donít need any lectures from you on the rights and wrongs of online name calling.

Iím sure you donít feel ashamed or you wouldnít do it....Iím just of the opinion that if you start name calling instead of debating like adults itís a sure sign you lost the argument.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 19, 2020, 12:25:06 AM
No it wonít.  I can post information showing far greater numbers than you have posted of Jews dissatisfied with Labour and its handling of [ censored word]emitism and you will 100% certainly find some reason to disqualify it .

Go on then....I promise Iíll look on your post with the seriousness it deserves.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 19, 2020, 01:39:27 AM
I hope youíre better than this WS.

One of my favourite films is Schindlers List.
Actually made me cry when I saw it.
Liam Neeson deserved an Oscar.
Epic film, nothing else I've seen comes close.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 19, 2020, 09:25:34 AM
One of my favourite films is Schindlers List.
Actually made me cry when I saw it.
Liam Neeson deserved an Oscar.
Epic film, nothing else I've seen comes close.
I was at the British premiere of that film.  Spielberg was there (he introduced the film), as were several holocaust survivors.  Itís a shame you feel the need to write some of the offensive dross you come out with, is there a particular reason for it?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Erngath on January 19, 2020, 10:26:06 AM
Possibly of topic but is today the first of April?
I've just read two headlines

Daily Mail
1. Boris is contemplating moving the House of Lords to York and building a new , no doubt, expensive building to accommodate this second chamber of government?

The Telegraph.
2. Jeremy Corbyn has recommended John Bercow for a peerage?


Just to add that I don't buy any newspapers but scan online headlines and read some articles but don't take seriously much that I read.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 19, 2020, 10:43:00 AM
Possibly of topic but is today the first of April?
I've just read two headlines

Daily Mail
1. Boris is contemplating moving the House of Lords to York and building a new , no doubt, expensive building to accommodate this second chamber of government?

The Telegraph.
2. Jeremy Corbyn has recommended John Bercow for a peerage?


Just to add that I don't buy any newspapers but scan online headlines and read some articles but don't take seriously much that I read.
Yes, I read those too.  The first one is a Boris fantasy, the second is cronyism, Tom Watson (the despicable toad) has also been nominated.  Yeuch.  Abolish the lot of them!
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Erngath on January 19, 2020, 10:51:52 AM
Yes, I read those too.  The first one is a Boris fantasy, the second is cronyism, Tom Watson (the despicable toad) has also been nominated.  Yeuch.  Abolish the lot of them!


Your "Abolish" suggestion seems to be the popular option.
I won't repeat where my hubby suggested moving the lot of them !!
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 19, 2020, 01:50:24 PM
Yes, I read those too.  The first one is a Boris fantasy, the second is cronyism, Tom Watson (the despicable toad) has also been nominated.  Yeuch.  Abolish the lot of them!

Not sure how Corbynís suggestion can be called cronyism....isnít it simply following tradition? Bercow is the only former speaker not to have been given a peerage in 230 years. The decision smells of pique rather than cronyism...or perhaps Boris is [ censored word]emitic ?

I do agree with you however about the HoL .
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Admin on January 20, 2020, 02:16:34 PM
An excellent opinion piece from a life long Tory on Johnsonís capacity for lying and why he canít be trusted.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/11/peter-oborne-s-diary-boris-johnson-s-nhs-lies-my-bulging-dossier-deceit-and

And Osborneís list of Johnsonís lies.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Does honesty in politics really not matter anymore and if it does why are we prepared to stomach Johnsonís terminal dishonesty ?

Lying and politics aren`t mutually exclusive. In fact I would say you can't have one without the other. Politicians must be among the most untrustworthy people in our country.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Admin on January 20, 2020, 02:20:55 PM
I was hoping not to have to comment, but Jew hating makes me sick to my stomach.  I will never be able to understand this.

But never mind eh!  We don't all feel like that.

It's a Palestinian thing Eleanor.  Corbyn has a record of supporting anti Israeli terrorist groups in the Middle East and elsewhere and that is another reason why grassroot card-carrying Labour supporters wouldn't vote for him in the recent General Election.

IMO, voting in Sir Keir Starmer to replace him will cost them the next election too.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 20, 2020, 02:57:25 PM
It's a Palestinian thing Eleanor.  Corbyn has a record of supporting anti Israeli terrorist groups in the Middle East and elsewhere and that is another reason why grassroot card-carrying Labour supporters wouldn't vote for him in the recent General Election.

IMO, voting in Sir Keir Starmer to replace him will cost them the next election too.

My, my the propaganda really does get everywhere.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Angelo222 on January 20, 2020, 03:40:34 PM
It's a Palestinian thing Eleanor.  Corbyn has a record of supporting anti Israeli terrorist groups in the Middle East and elsewhere and that is another reason why grassroot card-carrying Labour supporters wouldn't vote for him in the recent General Election.

IMO, voting in Sir Keir Starmer to replace him will cost them the next election too.

I agree, they might as well keep Corbyn if they vote in Keir Starmer because he is cut from the same cloth. The inner circle will vote for Starmer but he will never represent Labour voters outside of London. Labour is unelectable and long may it last... Sock it to them Boris   @)(++(* @)(++(* 8@??)(
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 20, 2020, 06:04:58 PM
My, my the propaganda really does get everywhere.
ďCorbyn has a record of supporting anti Israeli terrorist groups in the Middle East and elsewhereĒ is a fact, not propaganda.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Erngath on January 20, 2020, 07:02:57 PM
I agree, they might as well keep Corbyn if they vote in Keir Starmer because he is cut from the same cloth. The inner circle will vote for Starmer but he will never represent Labour voters outside of London. Labour is unelectable and long may it last... Sock it to them Boris   @)(++(* @)(++(* 8@??)(

Why is Labour so popular in London?
Is it just the  number of voters who live there?
How many Conservative MPs representing London constituencies are there?
Why is Labour now unelectable in Scotland in so far as Westminster is concerned?
Why is the Conservative party unelectable in Scotland/in so far as.Westminster is concerned?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 20, 2020, 07:24:33 PM
Why is Labour so popular in London?
Is it just the  number of voters who live there?
How many Conservative MPs representing London constituencies are there?
Why is Labour now unelectable in Scotland in so far as Westminster is concerned?
Why is the Conservative party unelectable in Scotland/in so far as.Westminster is concerned?
Labour is popular with the young and with people of BAME heritage especially Muslims, both demographics largely represented in certain parts of London, thatís one reason.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Erngath on January 20, 2020, 07:59:54 PM
Labour is popular with the young and with people of BAME heritage especially Muslims, both demographics largely represented in certain parts of London, thatís one reason.

I can understand the swing from Labour in the regions of England who voted for Brexit.
However still trying to figure out the total loss of the  Labour vote here.
My own opinion is that many voted SNP in protest against the extremes of both Labour and Conservative parties.

Three brothers in law who were totally Labour voters voted SNP and are hoping for independence ??
It will be an interesting few years.
I read that Boris, once he has Brexit sorted, is going to pay a few visits to Scotland to promote the Union.
That will really work!
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 20, 2020, 10:08:37 PM
ďCorbyn has a record of supporting anti Israeli terrorist groups in the Middle East and elsewhereĒ is a fact, not propaganda.

Corbyn has made many, many speeches, perhaps you can quote any part of one where he has given his support to any terrorist group ( dear God please not the Hamas quote again ! ).
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 20, 2020, 10:12:34 PM
I can understand the swing from Labour in the regions of England who voted for Brexit.
However still trying to figure out the total loss of the  Labour vote here.
My own opinion is that many voted SNP in protest against the extremes of both Labour and Conservative parties.

Three brothers in law who were totally Labour voters voted SNP and are hoping for independence ??
It will be an interesting few years.
I read that Boris, once he has Brexit sorted, is going to pay a few visits to Scotland to promote the Union.
That will really work!

Perhaps it really is just about Independence ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 20, 2020, 10:30:48 PM
Corbyn has made many, many speeches, perhaps you can quote any part of one where he has given his support to any terrorist group ( dear God please not the Hamas quote again ! ).
How about you point to all the times he has invited members of the Israeli government and loyalist paramilitary groups to have tea with him at the HoC, how many times he has outright condemned acts of terrorism against us and our allies without in the next breath wagging the finger of blame at ourselves and our allies for supposedly bringing it upon themselves, equivocate, equivocate, equivocate, deflect, deflect, deflect.  Corbyn supports Palestine and despises Israel, but you donít think he supports Hamas?  Gimme a break.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Erngath on January 20, 2020, 10:40:55 PM
Perhaps it really is just about Independence ?

Perhaps it is.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 20, 2020, 11:53:17 PM
How about you point to all the times he has invited members of the Israeli government and loyalist paramilitary groups to have tea with him at the HoC, how many times he has outright condemned acts of terrorism against us and our allies without in the next breath wagging the finger of blame at ourselves and our allies for supposedly bringing it upon themselves, equivocate, equivocate, equivocate, deflect, deflect, deflect.  Corbyn supports Palestine and despises Israel, but you donít think he supports Hamas?  Gimme a break.

No quote then ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 21, 2020, 07:31:00 AM
No quote then ?
As I said Jeremy always equivocates - itís always ď we condemn the Manchester bombing, but we also condemn the stabbing of a Muslim outside a MosqueĒ.  Itís alway always qualified, or the issue deflected to remind us that weíre the bad guys.  Look at his recent speech for CND.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 21, 2020, 08:12:41 AM
For someone who started this thread to discuss Boris and his lies, youíre not doing very well at keeping it on topic!  Instead itís turned into another thread about Yesterdayís Man.  Heís history.  Letís move on.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 21, 2020, 10:58:06 AM
As I said Jeremy always equivocates - itís always ď we condemn the Manchester bombing, but we also condemn the stabbing of a Muslim outside a MosqueĒ.  Itís alway always qualified, or the issue deflected to remind us that weíre the bad guys.  Look at his recent speech for CND.

So no direct quote again.

Are you really trying to suggest that when he links the heightened risk of terrorist attacks with our foreign policy decisions he isnít telling the truth ? What is unpatriotic about that ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 21, 2020, 03:44:06 PM
So no direct quote again.

Are you really trying to suggest that when he links the heightened risk of terrorist attacks with our foreign policy decisions he isnít telling the truth ? What is unpatriotic about that ?
Jeez, you really need to ask.  Imagine a Labour MP in 1941 excusing the Blitz because it was us that declared war on Germany.  ďWe thoroughly condemn the killing of thousands of British civilians by the Germans, however we only have ourselves to blame for declaring war on them in the first place and by the way weíve killed some German civilians too, so weíre in no position to take the moral high groundĒ. 
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 21, 2020, 06:41:17 PM
Jeez, you really need to ask.  Imagine a Labour MP in 1941 excusing the Blitz because it was us that declared war on Germany.  ďWe thoroughly condemn the killing of thousands of British civilians by the Germans, however we only have ourselves to blame for declaring war on them in the first place and by the way weíve killed some German civilians too, so weíre in no position to take the moral high groundĒ.

One difference. German invaded Poland...what followed was justified. What is the justification for the destruction of great swathes of the Middle East ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 21, 2020, 07:05:39 PM
One difference. German invaded Poland...what followed was justified. What is the justification for the destruction of great swathes of the Middle East ?
I think you know what the justification was, the Labour Government at the time believed that Iraq posed an existential threat to the area.  Prior to that of course there was the worst terrorist atrocity perpetrated on the West by a terrorist organisation propped up and given shelter by the Taliban in Afghanistan, a terror group headed by one Osama Bin Laden, whose death Corbyn described as a tragedy.  A tragedy for whom exactly?  I take it you are of the view that Bin Ladenís actions were justified then, or at the very least understandable?  And all terrorist attacks wherever they occur against the West?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 21, 2020, 07:31:02 PM
I think you know what the justification was, the Labour Government at the time believed that Iraq posed an existential threat to the area.  Prior to that of course there was the worst terrorist atrocity perpetrated on the West by a terrorist organisation propped up and given shelter by the Taliban in Afghanistan, a terror group headed by one Osama Bin Laden, whose death Corbyn described as a tragedy.  A tragedy for whom exactly?  I take it you are of the view that Bin Ladenís actions were justified then, or at the very least understandable?  And all terrorist attacks wherever they occur against the West?

How many mistakes can you include in one post.

Iraq posed no threat, google WMD.

Corbyn said Bin Laden should have been tried under international law and the fact that he didnít was the tragedy.

ďJeremy Corbyn has come under fire for saying it was a ďtragedyĒ that Osama bin Laden was killed by the US rather than being put on trial.

The Labour leadership frontrunner made the remarks shortly after the special forces raid in 2011 on the al-Qaida chiefís Pakistan compound in which he and four others were shot dead.

In an interview for Iranian television, he suggested the assassination of the mastermind behind the September 11 attacks would result in deeper unrest.

It is the latest in a series of past comments and associations that the veteran left-winger has been forced to defend since emerging as the surprise favourite to succeed Ed Miliband.

In a clip from the Press TV show the Agenda, Corbyn is heard complaining that there had been ďno attempt whatsoever that I can see to arrest him and put him on trial, to go through that processĒ. He went on: ďThis was an assassination attempt, and is yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy.

ďThe World Trade Center was a tragedy, the attack on Afghanistan was a tragedy, the war in Iraq was a tragedy. Tens of thousands of people have died. Torture has come back on to the world stage, been canonised virtually into law by GuantŠnamo and Bagram.

ďCanít we learn some lessons from this? Are we just going to sink deeper and deeper?

ďThe next stage will be an attempted assassination on Gaddafi and so it will go on. This will just make the world more dangerous and worse and worse and worse.Ē

A spokesman for Corbyn said he was ďa total opponent of al-Qaida, all it stands forĒ.

He was proved correct.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 21, 2020, 08:11:07 PM
How many mistakes can you include in one post.

Iraq posed no threat, google WMD.

Corbyn said Bin Laden should have been tried under international law and the fact that he didnít was the tragedy.

ďJeremy Corbyn has come under fire for saying it was a ďtragedyĒ that Osama bin Laden was killed by the US rather than being put on trial.

The Labour leadership frontrunner made the remarks shortly after the special forces raid in 2011 on the al-Qaida chiefís Pakistan compound in which he and four others were shot dead.

In an interview for Iranian television, he suggested the assassination of the mastermind behind the September 11 attacks would result in deeper unrest.

It is the latest in a series of past comments and associations that the veteran left-winger has been forced to defend since emerging as the surprise favourite to succeed Ed Miliband.

In a clip from the Press TV show the Agenda, Corbyn is heard complaining that there had been ďno attempt whatsoever that I can see to arrest him and put him on trial, to go through that processĒ. He went on: ďThis was an assassination attempt, and is yet another tragedy, upon a tragedy, upon a tragedy.

ďThe World Trade Center was a tragedy, the attack on Afghanistan was a tragedy, the war in Iraq was a tragedy. Tens of thousands of people have died. Torture has come back on to the world stage, been canonised virtually into law by GuantŠnamo and Bagram.

ďCanít we learn some lessons from this? Are we just going to sink deeper and deeper?

ďThe next stage will be an attempted assassination on Gaddafi and so it will go on. This will just make the world more dangerous and worse and worse and worse.Ē

A spokesman for Corbyn said he was ďa total opponent of al-Qaida, all it stands forĒ.

He was proved correct.
Iraq posed no threat to stability in the Middle East??  Really??  And Saddam wasnt busy killing thousands of his own citizens either I suppose.  Of course we should have just let him get on with it, that would have been far better, let him gas men, women and children, just like we should have let Hitler get on with it I suppose. 

Notice how Corbyn denunces terrorism and in the very next breath denounces the Americans.  His usual tactic, just as I described. He also. clearly described Bin Ladenís death as an assassination and a tragedy, no matter how you attempt to post rationalise it. 
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 21, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
Iraq posed no threat to stability in the Middle East??  Really??  And Saddam wasnt busy killing thousands of his own citizens either I suppose.  Of course we should have just let him get on with it, that would have been far better, let him gas men, women and children, just like we should have let Hitler get on with it I suppose. 

Notice how Corbyn denunces terrorism and in the very next breath denounces the Americans.  His usual tactic, just as I described. He also. clearly described Bin Ladenís death as an assassination and a tragedy, no matter how you attempt to post rationalise it.

Please donít pretend that the reason America invaded Iraq was to protect the Iraqi population from Saddam. 2.4 million have been killed since 2003 and if you want to protect people from a dictator you donít arm him to the teeth as America did during the Iran/Iraq war when they were courting Sadam.

Under international law Bin Ladenís death was an assassination and a tragedy as Corbyn said, which has lead to countless deaths both in the west and the Middle East. Bin Laden should have been tried for his crimes, just as the Nazis were at Nuremberg. Instead America made him a martyr and we gave the terrorists a further reason to hate us.

I would learn my history if I was you and especially the principle of causality.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 21, 2020, 08:45:46 PM
Please donít pretend that the reason America invaded Iraq was to protect the Iraqi population from Saddam. 2.4 million have been killed since 2003 and if you want to protect people from a dictator you donít arm him to the teeth as America did during the Iran/Iraq war when they were courting Sadam.

Under international law Bin Ladenís death was an assassination and a tragedy as Corbyn said, which has lead to countless deaths both in the west and the Middle East. Bin Laden should have been tried for his crimes, just as the Nazis were at Nuremberg. Instead America made him a martyr and we gave the terrorists a further reason to hate us.

I would learn my history if I was you and especially the principle of causality.
Kindly donít lecture me about history.  Saddam was an enabler of terrorism against the West and Israel.  He posed a threat to both, directly or indirectly.  Bin Ladenís death was not a tragedy, the death of 2000 plus in the Twin Towers was a tragedy.  You donít think Bin Laden on trial and in prison would have given terrorists an excuse for further atrocities?  They really donít need much of one you know. 
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 22, 2020, 12:19:16 AM
Kindly donít lecture me about history.  Saddam was an enabler of terrorism against the West and Israel.  He posed a threat to both, directly or indirectly.  Bin Ladenís death was not a tragedy, the death of 2000 plus in the Twin Towers was a tragedy.  You donít think Bin Laden on trial and in prison would have given terrorists an excuse for further atrocities?  They really donít need much of one you know.

Iím sorry but your post is simply rehashed propaganda.

In what way did Sadam Ďenableí terrorism ? He was a secular leader and afraid of the pernicious rise of fundamental Islam. To claim that he encouraged it is simply false.

As to Bin Laden, you either believe in international law or you donít....you canít pick and chose.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 22, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Iím sorry but your post is simply rehashed propaganda.

In what way did Sadam Ďenableí terrorism ? He was a secular leader and afraid of the pernicious rise of fundamental Islam. To claim that he encouraged it is simply false.

As to Bin Laden, you either believe in international law or you donít....you canít pick and chose.
Sometimes laws have to be broken for the greater good, this is one of those occasions IMO.  Dangerous men (itís usually men) are shot dead on the streets of London by police and that is perfectly acceptable, Bin Laden certainly fell into the category of ďdangerous manĒ. 
As for Saddam, your views are similar to those of Donald Trumpís. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-says-saddam-hussein-was-an-opponent-of-terrorism-hes-wrong
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 22, 2020, 08:22:44 AM
One question remains regarding Iraq's terrorism capability: Is there anything in the captured archives to indicate that Saddam had the will to use his terrorist capabilities directly against United States? Judging from examples of Saddam's statements (Extract 34) before the 1991 Gulf War with the United States, the answer is yes.
Extract 34.
[19 April 1990]
"IfAmerica interferes we will strike. You know us, we are not the talkative type who holds the microphone and says things only, we do what we say. Maybe we cannot reach Washington but we can send someone with an ex- plosive belt to reach Washington."
"We can send people to Washington... a person with explosive belt around him could throw himself on Bush's car. 107
In the years between the two Gulf Wars, UN sanctions reduced Sad- dam's ability to shape regional and world events, steadily draining his military, economic, and military powers. The rise of Islamist fundamentalism in the region gave Saddam the opportunity to make terrorism, one of the few tools remaining in Saddam's "coercion" toolbox, not only cost effective but a formal instrument of state power. Saddam nurtured this capability with an infrastructure supporting (1) his own particular brand of state terrorism against internal and external threats, (2) the state sponsorship of suicide operations, and (3) organizational relationships and "outreach programs" for terrorist groups. Evidence that was uncovered and analyzed attests to the existence of a terrorist capability and a willingness to use it until the day Saddam was forced to flee Baghdad by Coalition forces.
https://fas.org/irp/eprint/iraqi/v1.pdf
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 22, 2020, 08:34:30 AM
Saddam's Terror Links
Updated March 24, 2008 12:01 am ET
PRINT
TEXT
Five years on, few Iraq myths are as persistent as the notion that the Bush Administration invented a connection between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. Yet a new Pentagon report suggests that Iraq's links to world-wide terror networks, including al Qaeda, were far more extensive than previously understood.

Naturally, it's getting little or no attention. Press accounts have been misleading or outright distortions, while the Bush Administration seems indifferent. Even John McCain has let the study's revelations float by. But that doesn't make the facts any less notable or true.


The redacted version of "Saddam and Terrorism" is the most definitive public assessment to date from the Harmony program, the trove of "exploitable" documents, audio and video records, and computer files captured in Iraq. On the basis of about 600,000 items, the report lays out Saddam's willingness to use terrorism against American and other international targets, as well as his larger state sponsorship of terror, which included harboring, training and equipping jihadis throughout the Middle East.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB120631495290958169
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 22, 2020, 06:50:22 PM
Sometimes laws have to be broken for the greater good, this is one of those occasions IMO.  Dangerous men (itís usually men) are shot dead on the streets of London by police and that is perfectly acceptable, Bin Laden certainly fell into the category of ďdangerous manĒ. 
As for Saddam, your views are similar to those of Donald Trumpís. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-says-saddam-hussein-was-an-opponent-of-terrorism-hes-wrong


If there is an immediate danger then action must be taken to defuse that danger. If not then the law should be allowed to take itís course.

As an aside do you think those tried at Nuremberg should have been executed without a trial ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 22, 2020, 07:03:37 PM
One question remains regarding Iraq's terrorism capability: Is there anything in the captured archives to indicate that Saddam had the will to use his terrorist capabilities directly against United States? Judging from examples of Saddam's statements (Extract 34) before the 1991 Gulf War with the United States, the answer is yes.
Extract 34.
[19 April 1990]
"IfAmerica interferes we will strike. You know us, we are not the talkative type who holds the microphone and says things only, we do what we say. Maybe we cannot reach Washington but we can send someone with an ex- plosive belt to reach Washington."
"We can send people to Washington... a person with explosive belt around him could throw himself on Bush's car. 107
In the years between the two Gulf Wars, UN sanctions reduced Sad- dam's ability to shape regional and world events, steadily draining his military, economic, and military powers. The rise of Islamist fundamentalism in the region gave Saddam the opportunity to make terrorism, one of the few tools remaining in Saddam's "coercion" toolbox, not only cost effective but a formal instrument of state power. Saddam nurtured this capability with an infrastructure supporting (1) his own particular brand of state terrorism against internal and external threats, (2) the state sponsorship of suicide operations, and (3) organizational relationships and "outreach programs" for terrorist groups. Evidence that was uncovered and analyzed attests to the existence of a terrorist capability and a willingness to use it until the day Saddam was forced to flee Baghdad by Coalition forces.
https://fas.org/irp/eprint/iraqi/v1.pdf

From the document you posted.

ĎThis study found no "smoking gun" (i.e., direct connection) between Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda.í

Makes you wonder why they attacked Iraq.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on January 22, 2020, 07:05:35 PM
Saddam's Terror Links
Updated March 24, 2008 12:01 am ET
PRINT
TEXT
Five years on, few Iraq myths are as persistent as the notion that the Bush Administration invented a connection between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. Yet a new Pentagon report suggests that Iraq's links to world-wide terror networks, including al Qaeda, were far more extensive than previously understood.

Naturally, it's getting little or no attention. Press accounts have been misleading or outright distortions, while the Bush Administration seems indifferent. Even John McCain has let the study's revelations float by. But that doesn't make the facts any less notable or true.


The redacted version of "Saddam and Terrorism" is the most definitive public assessment to date from the Harmony program, the trove of "exploitable" documents, audio and video records, and computer files captured in Iraq. On the basis of about 600,000 items, the report lays out Saddam's willingness to use terrorism against American and other international targets, as well as his larger state sponsorship of terror, which included harboring, training and equipping jihadis throughout the Middle East.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB120631495290958169

Sounds like the justification for an illegal war to me.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on January 22, 2020, 08:11:23 PM
From the document you posted.

ĎThis study found no "smoking gun" (i.e., direct connection) between Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda.í

Makes you wonder why they attacked Iraq.
Why do you think they spent a trillion dollars doing so? 
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 01, 2020, 11:05:32 PM
From the document you posted.

ĎThis study found no "smoking gun" (i.e., direct connection) between Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda.í

Makes you wonder why they attacked Iraq.

Oil darling Oil.  Do we really believe that Blair and bush gave a toss about Kurds in the North or Shia muslims who fled to Iran? IF is was out of compassion to save people then why stop at Iraq  anyone looking at Africa?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 01, 2020, 11:25:45 PM
Oil darling Oil.  Do we really believe that Blair and bush gave a toss about Kurds in the North or Shia muslims who fled to Iran? IF is was out of compassion to save people then why stop at Iraq  anyone looking at Africa?

Of course and Libya later. 
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 12:01:25 AM
Of course and Libya later.
The US gets only a very small percentage  its oil from Iraq or Libya so I think that is a bit of a red herring.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 12:04:09 AM
The US gets hardly any of its oil from Iraq or Libya so I think that is a bit of a red herring.

I donít think things panned out as theyíd hoped.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 12:06:14 AM
I donít think things panned out as theyíd hoped.
Oh?  Why not?  The thing is if you want to ensure a good and steady flow of oil from somewhere itís best not to plunge that somewhere into a state of war and chaos.  Hence why I donít believe oil was the motivating factor. 
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 12:21:48 AM
Oh?  Why not?  The thing is if you want to ensure a good and steady flow of oil from somewhere itís best not to plunge that somewhere into a state of war and chaos.  Hence why I donít believe oil was the motivating factor.

Do you really think that the US administration envisaged war and chaos or did they envisage a something similar to the smooth hand over of power as happened during the coup in Iran in 1953 ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 12:32:29 AM
Do you really think that the US administration envisaged war and chaos or did they envisage a something similar to the smooth hand over of power as happened during the coup in Iran in 1953 ?
I donít know - did the USA drop 10000 tons of bombs on Tehran?  I wasnít born then so perhaps you can enlighten me.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 12:37:32 AM
I donít know - did the USA drop 10000 tons of bombs on Tehran?  I wasnít born then so perhaps you can enlighten me.

You really should learn your history ( NB you donít need to be alive to know it ).

Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 02, 2020, 12:46:35 AM
The US gets only a very small percentage  its oil from Iraq or Libya so I think that is a bit of a red herring.

No red herrings, they stole a lot of oil in the name of payment towards saving them poor souls from  erm... the boogie man. Big bad Muslim talibanies

Saddam Hussein was assassinated without trial. Nice work Tony.

I cried when I saw on BBC live (they showed it live- I saw it on tape years later) the OMG wow its shock and awe  and whooo look at those bombs dropping.  whooplah we are winning a war!  It was PR and a disgrace! slaughter of the innocents.

   erm did anyone see the dead children who didn't declare war?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 09:21:37 AM
You really should learn your history ( NB you donít need to be alive to know it ).
You likened US actions in Iraq with their part in the downfall of the Iranian regime, saying that the US hoped it would all work out the same way, and Iím asking - did that involve declaring war on Iran  and a massive blitzkrieg of missiles plunging the country into chaos and destruction?  A simple yes or no will suffice. 
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 10:17:35 AM
No red herrings, they stole a lot of oil in the name of payment towards saving them poor souls from  erm... the boogie man. Big bad Muslim talibanies

Saddam Hussein was assassinated without trial. Nice work Tony.

I cried when I saw on BBC live (they showed it live- I saw it on tape years later) the OMG wow its shock and awe  and whooo look at those bombs dropping.  whooplah we are winning a war!  It was PR and a disgrace! slaughter of the innocents.

   erm did anyone see the dead children who didn't declare war?
How much oil did the US steal?  Was it a lot more than this?
ďThe U.S. alone spent $60 billion over nine years ó some $15 million a day ó to rebuild IraqĒ

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/12/88-point-2-billion-us-dollar-price-tag-for-rebuilding-iraq-after-islamic-state-war.html

If so, kindly provide the cite.
Moreover what the heck is the Donald talking about here if the oil has already been stolen?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/donald-trump-iraq-war-oil-strategy-seizure-isis
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 11:17:04 AM
You likened US actions in Iraq with their part in the downfall of the Iranian regime, saying that the US hoped it would all work out the same way, and Iím asking - did that involve declaring war on Iran  and a massive blitzkrieg of missiles plunging the country into chaos and destruction?  A simple yes or no will suffice.

Different time, different method...the same hoped for result. You really should look it up.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 11:17:49 AM
How much oil did the US steal?  Was it a lot more than this?
ďThe U.S. alone spent $60 billion over nine years ó some $15 million a day ó to rebuild IraqĒ

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/12/88-point-2-billion-us-dollar-price-tag-for-rebuilding-iraq-after-islamic-state-war.html

If so, kindly provide the cite.
Moreover what the heck is the Donald talking about here if the oil has already been stolen?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/donald-trump-iraq-war-oil-strategy-seizure-isis

I thought American didnít need Iraqís oil.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 12:08:11 PM
I thought American didnít need Iraqís oil.
This is Trump in  2016, according to you and Misstaken the US already got their hands on it and thatís why they bombed the hell out of Iraq?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 12:09:46 PM
Different time, different method...the same hoped for result. You really should look it up.
I asked you how plunging a country into physical chaos and destruction by bombing it is conducive to keeping the oil flowing to the US.  You then compared it to Iran in the 50s where there was no declaration of war and no bombing. therefore IMo no comparison.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 03:06:13 PM
This is Trump in  2016, according to you and Misstaken the US already got their hands on it and thatís why they bombed the hell out of Iraq?

Thatís not what I said ( you seem to be making a habit of misquoting me). I said that was the intention..of course the reality turned out to be somewhat different.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 03:41:19 PM
Thatís not what I said ( you seem to be making a habit of misquoting me). I said that was the intention..of course the reality turned out to be somewhat different.
Miss Taken claimed the USA stole Iraqís oil.  You are claiming they would have stolen it if it hadnít been for what I donít know.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 03:52:51 PM
Miss Taken claimed the USA stole Iraqís oil.  You are claiming they would have stolen it if it hadnít been for what I donít know.

Iíll just leave this here.

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 04:05:47 PM
Iíll just leave this here.

https://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html
and I shall just leave this here
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/03/17/a-decade-later-and-the-iraq-debate-is-still-contaminated-with-myths/
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 04:48:49 PM
and I shall just leave this here
https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/03/17/a-decade-later-and-the-iraq-debate-is-still-contaminated-with-myths/

From my link :

ďOf course it's about oil; we can't really deny that," said Gen. John Abizaid, former head of U.S. Central Command and Military Operations in Iraq, in 2007. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan agreed, writing in his memoir, "I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil." Then-Sen. and now Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the same in 2007: "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are."

They donít seem like conspiracy nuts to me.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 04:52:45 PM
From my link :

ďOf course it's about oil; we can't really deny that," said Gen. John Abizaid, former head of U.S. Central Command and Military Operations in Iraq, in 2007. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan agreed, writing in his memoir, "I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil." Then-Sen. and now Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the same in 2007: "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are."

They donít seem like conspiracy nuts to me.
So what went wrong then? 

Though Abizaid says that Bushís Iraq policy seeks to keep oil ďprices low,Ē the per-barrel cost of oil has risen dramatically since the U.S. first invaded. In March 2003, the price of oil was roughly US$35 a barrel. Today, prices reached ďabove $85 a barrel for the first time.Ē

Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 04:53:54 PM
So what went wrong then?

Not sure what you mean ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 04:56:29 PM
Not sure what you mean ?
see above.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 05:24:03 PM
see above.

Still not sure. Did you read my link.....or more important, did you understand it ?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 06:08:57 PM
Still not sure. Did you read my link.....or more important, did you understand it ?
No, too thick to understand  it, sorry.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 06:20:12 PM
No, too thick to understand  it, sorry.

Not thick....blinkered perhaps.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 06:39:45 PM
Not thick....blinkered perhaps.
yeah, and that.  Also, brainwashed, gullible, and anything else you care to throw at me if it makes you feel superior.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 06:52:55 PM
yeah, and that.  Also, brainwashed, gullible, and anything else you care to throw at me if it makes you feel superior.

Iím a socialist....everyone is equal  8(>((
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 07:05:52 PM
Iím a socialist....everyone is equal  8(>((
Except like every socialist knows some people are more equal than others.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 02, 2020, 07:12:26 PM
Except like every socialist knows some people are more equal than others.

Nope.
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on February 02, 2020, 08:15:57 PM
Nope.
If everyone is equal then you too are blinkered.  Glad we got that one sorted!
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 03, 2020, 04:23:46 PM
Iím a socialist....everyone is equal  8(>((

Everyone is not equal. Humans are individuals- their fingerprints are evidence of this.

Some people like to create boxed to hold people in to separate them,say they need special laws and treatments and call it diversity! at the same time claiming they seek a multi cultural society where everyone is equal. in which the 'diversity' shows up these flaws!
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2020, 04:26:25 PM
Everyone is not equal. Humans are individuals- their fingerprints are evidence of this.

Some people like to create boxed to hold people in to separate them,say they need special laws and treatments and call it diversity! at the same time claiming they seek a multi cultural society where everyone is equal. in which the 'diversity' shows up these flaws!

Special laws and treatments?
Title: Re: Is It Important That Boris is a Liar ?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 03, 2020, 04:37:56 PM
Special laws and treatments?

Yes Faith. to discuss them would be shouted down as has been for many years. Even got the racist ticket on here a few times. which I wear with pride. 8(0(*