Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?

[Venturi Swirl]

I would have expected it to be in the files if he had made a statement.

So no cite then, ie not a fact, just an opinion.

[Brietta]

Here you are; she knew all the technical terms. didn't she? 'Building up profiles' and all that.....

a letter of complaint from one mother to the GNR regarding the sexual abuse of her daughter and the lack of proper attention paid to it by the authorities. The final line in particular has haunted me ever
since:

It is difficult to see with this lack of investigation or interest how a profile of this man can be built up. It did not appear to us that there was any great incentive or determination to find the offender and bring him to justice . . .
Furthermore, it could all have been so much worse . . . indeed this man could go on to do much worse to another child if he’s not stopped now.
[madeleine]

What else do you want a cite for? If it's 'four years before the crimes were mentioned' I think they were first mentioned in 'madeleine' in 2011, but feel free to correct me.

The problem with cherry picking quotes to suit a particular prejudice or to make a particular debating point is that quite often the essence of the point being made is missed.

Kate was appalled that the Portuguese Police in many instances had not even bothered to log the reported crimes treating them instead as if no actual crime had been committed.

The parents complained that on reporting the crime they felt the complaint was not treated with the gravity it merited ...

• statements were not taken
• evidence in the form of DNA or fingerprints was seldom looked for

Kate also notes that in the majority of the cases there was no indication that there had been a break in.

Of more relevance is that when the parents of these crime victims realised that there could have been a link to what had happened to Madeleine and to their child ... which prompted them to contact the British police.

So the question arises ... when news of Madeleine's disappearance broke ... why were the parents of victims capable of thinking there might be a connection but the Policia Judiciaria were incapable of taking that elementary step?

[ShiningInLuz]

The problem with cherry picking quotes to suit a particular prejudice or to make a particular debating point is that quite often the essence of the point being made is missed.

Kate was appalled that the Portuguese Police in many instances had not even bothered to log the reported crimes treating them instead as if no actual crime had been committed.

The parents complained that on reporting the crime they felt the complaint was not treated with the gravity it merited ...

• statements were not taken
• evidence in the form of DNA or fingerprints was seldom looked for

Kate also notes that in the majority of the cases there was no indication that there had been a break in.

Of more relevance is that when the parents of these crime victims realised that there could have been a link to what had happened to Madeleine and to their child ... which prompted them to contact the British police.

So the question arises ... when news of Madeleine's disappearance broke ... why were the parents of victims capable of thinking there might be a connection but the Policia Judiciaria were incapable of taking that elementary step?

If there was no DNA database in existence why take DNA?

[misty]

If there was no DNA database in existence why take DNA?

 How else could PJ match a suspect to DNA samples found in 5A?

[G-Unit]

How else could PJ match a suspect to DNA samples found in 5A?

Did they say they did that?

[G-Unit]

The problem with cherry picking quotes to suit a particular prejudice or to make a particular debating point is that quite often the essence of the point being made is missed.

Kate was appalled that the Portuguese Police in many instances had not even bothered to log the reported crimes treating them instead as if no actual crime had been committed.

The parents complained that on reporting the crime they felt the complaint was not treated with the gravity it merited ...

• statements were not taken
• evidence in the form of DNA or fingerprints was seldom looked for

Kate also notes that in the majority of the cases there was no indication that there had been a break in.

Of more relevance is that when the parents of these crime victims realised that there could have been a link to what had happened to Madeleine and to their child ... which prompted them to contact the British police.

So the question arises ... when news of Madeleine's disappearance broke ... why were the parents of victims capable of thinking there might be a connection but the Policia Judiciaria were incapable of taking that elementary step?

You continue to assume that the PJ had knowledge of these crimes. I've seen no evidence that they did. 

[Brietta]

You continue to assume that the PJ had knowledge of these crimes. I've seen no evidence that they did.

Sadly yet more independent witnesses are labelled 'liars' in a case where indeed the senior investigating officer was later found to be guilty of perjury???

[G-Unit]

Sadly yet more independent witnesses are labelled 'liars' in a case where indeed the senior investigating officer was later found to be guilty of perjury???

Which independent witnesses claimed that the Policia Judiciaria were informed about these criimes?

[Brietta]

Which independent witnesses claimed that the Policia Judiciaria were informed about these criimes?

Are you seriously ignoring the parents of the victims of these crimes despite being aware that Kate McCann had access to files we have not seen?   You did actually quote her from MADELEINE.

Wherein she has written in one of the passages you have cut and pasted from ... that she cried for hours on reading a complaint from one mother to the GNR that the sexual abuse of her daughter had not received proper attention adding that ...
Snip
The final line in particular has haunted me ever since: ... Furthermore, it could all have been so much
worse . . . indeed this man could go on to do much worse to another child if he’s not stopped now.  Madeleine

[ShiningInLuz]

How else could PJ match a suspect to DNA samples found in 5A?

Have you any idea of the laws surrounding DNA, in Portugal, around 2007?

Here's a starter.

Police were prevented, by law, from cross referencing one DNA sample to another in another case.  They could only test within the case, and only with the consent of the provider,

That's why the PJ Files have lots of DNA consent forms.

That is possibly why there appears to be still unconfirmed DNA found in 5A.

[Mr Gray]

Have you any idea of the laws surrounding DNA, in Portugal, around 2007?

Here's a starter.

Police were prevented, by law, from cross referencing one DNA sample to another in another case.  They could only test within the case, and only with the consent of the provider,

That's why the PJ Files have lots of DNA consent forms.

That is possibly why there appears to be still unconfirmed DNA found in 5A.

Excellent news for criminals... Bad news for victims if crime... It seems Portugal are taking steps to bring themselves up to date and have developed a database of sorts... Still woefully inadequate to help victims of crime

[G-Unit]

Are you seriously ignoring the parents of the victims of these crimes despite being aware that Kate McCann had access to files we have not seen?   You did actually quote her from MADELEINE.

Wherein she has written in one of the passages you have cut and pasted from ... that she cried for hours on reading a complaint from one mother to the GNR that the sexual abuse of her daughter had not received proper attention adding that ...
Snip
The final line in particular has haunted me ever since: ... Furthermore, it could all have been so much
worse . . . indeed this man could go on to do much worse to another child if he’s not stopped now.  Madeleine

I challenge you to demonstrate that your assumptions are facts. Where does it say that those parents reported the crimes to the Policia Judiciara? Where does it say that the McCanns received information from the first investigation which was withheld from everyone else?

[Mr Gray]

Have you any idea of the laws surrounding DNA, in Portugal, around 2007?

Here's a starter.

Police were prevented, by law, from cross referencing one DNA sample to another in another case.  They could only test within the case, and only with the consent of the provider,

That's why the PJ Files have lots of DNA consent forms.

That is possibly why there appears to be still unconfirmed DNA found in 5A.

 identification.

In a conference held last year, the director of the Laboratory of Scientific Police of the Judiciary Police, Carlos Farinha, considered that the number of DNA profiles available in the database is still “very reduced” and identified as one of the problems the ignorance of the legislators on the subject.

As an example, he said that France has 400 times more profiles than Portugal, Germany 200 times more, Switzerland 30 times more and the Czech Republic 20 times more.

At the time, Carlos Farinha also said that, unlike other countries in Europe, Portugal does not have DNA profiles of defendants.

https://www.safecommunitiesportugal.com/%C2%A0dna-database-only-comprises-8000-samples-in-seven-years/

[Brietta]

I challenge you to demonstrate that your assumptions are facts. Where does it say that those parents reported the crimes to the Policia Judiciara? Where does it say that the McCanns received information from the first investigation which was withheld from everyone else?

You really don't know this already?

Snip
Portuguese police knew about the attacks but ruled out a link to Madeleine’s disappearance because the crimes were spread over a wide geographical area and there were no apparent attempts at abduction.

Four of the burglaries were in Carvoeiro, six in the Vale da Parra, Praia da Gale district, and two in Praia da Luz.

Nine of the 12 incidents were reported to Portuguese police at the time they happened, but British investigators only became aware of three break-ins when the victims came forward in response to televised appeals last autumn.

https://www.channel4.com/news/madeleine-mccann-police-appeal-sex-attacker


Interesting don't you think that one senior investigating officer and his team ruled out a link ... but another senior investigating officer used exactly that as the new information necessary to have Madeleine's case reopened and began to cast around for a suspect later named in the Portuguese press ... who had links to the ocean club ... and a phone which was making calls from Luz despite him sitting at his computer at home writing a poem.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Snip
“Who’s thinking about child abductions in a sleepy, out-of-town tourist resort?” asked Gerry McCann, expressing the common view among parents that places stuffed full of other parents with small children are supremely secure.

Chillingly, the McCanns learnt after the abduction that not only are such resorts an obvious target for paedophiles, but also that parents should have been warned to be vigilant.

In 2008, when the Portuguese police officially stopped pursuing the case, their files revealed that in the three years preceding Madeleine’s disappearance, three intruders had been disturbed in children’s bedrooms within an hour’s drive of Praia de Luz and five children had been abused in their beds while on holiday in the Algarve.

Evidence had not been collected, let alone collated or publicised.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/8503610/Kate-McCann-why-didnt-they-believe-her.html

Is that information ... or the note detailing the dining arrangements available to you or me in the files we have seen?  Yet it was familiar enough to Kate McCann for her to make reference to it in MADELEINE.

I wouldn't call it speculation ... I would deduce (arrive at a fact or a conclusion by reasoning; draw as a logical conclusion) that Kate McCann had access to information unavailable to you or I.

[G-Unit]

You really don't know this already?

Snip
Portuguese police knew about the attacks but ruled out a link to Madeleine’s disappearance because the crimes were spread over a wide geographical area and there were no apparent attempts at abduction.

Four of the burglaries were in Carvoeiro, six in the Vale da Parra, Praia da Gale district, and two in Praia da Luz.

Nine of the 12 incidents were reported to Portuguese police at the time they happened, but British investigators only became aware of three break-ins when the victims came forward in response to televised appeals last autumn.

https://www.channel4.com/news/madeleine-mccann-police-appeal-sex-attacker


Interesting don't you think that one senior investigating officer and his team ruled out a link ... but another senior investigating officer used exactly that as the new information necessary to have Madeleine's case reopened and began to cast around for a suspect later named in the Portuguese press ... who had links to the ocean club ... and a phone which was making calls from Luz despite him sitting at his computer at home writing a poem.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Snip
“Who’s thinking about child abductions in a sleepy, out-of-town tourist resort?” asked Gerry McCann, expressing the common view among parents that places stuffed full of other parents with small children are supremely secure.

Chillingly, the McCanns learnt after the abduction that not only are such resorts an obvious target for paedophiles, but also that parents should have been warned to be vigilant.

In 2008, when the Portuguese police officially stopped pursuing the case, their files revealed that in the three years preceding Madeleine’s disappearance, three intruders had been disturbed in children’s bedrooms within an hour’s drive of Praia de Luz and five children had been abused in their beds while on holiday in the Algarve.

Evidence had not been collected, let alone collated or publicised.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/8503610/Kate-McCann-why-didnt-they-believe-her.html

Is that information ... or the note detailing the dining arrangements available to you or me in the files we have seen?  Yet it was familiar enough to Kate McCann for her to make reference to it in MADELEINE.

I wouldn't call it speculation ... I would deduce (arrive at a fact or a conclusion by reasoning; draw as a logical conclusion) that Kate McCann had access to information unavailable to you or I.

Thank you for the cites. No facts, just media stories presented as facts in my opinion. Do you believe everything you see in the media?  Do you believe this?

"In 2008, when the Portuguese police officially stopped pursuing the case, their files revealed that in the three years preceding Madeleine’s disappearance, three intruders had been disturbed in children’s bedrooms within an hour’s drive of Praia de Luz and five children had been abused in their beds while on holiday in the Algarve."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/8503610/Kate-McCann-why-didnt-they-believe-her.html

Where did that information come from?

I really don't see how the McCanns could have been given files which were explicitly not released from judicial secrecy. That would have been against Portuguese law.

I notice that Kate McCann claimed to have '5,000 or so' pages in her case files. The online DVD has over 11,000 pages.