Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 835696 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #420 on: May 20, 2015, 03:29:28 PM »
Interesting;

In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at the University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out – of a line-up of six new carpet squares – the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded that cadaver dogs were an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html
Thanks for posting that G-Unit. The important question is, what is the minimum PMI (postmorteminterval) which can later be detected by a dog. That carpet square experiment doesn't tell us the minimum PMI required, it just tells us that 3hrs is above that minimum (because no subjects with shorter PMI were tested).

This experiment http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html found that to produce an alert, the PMI must be at least 1hr25mins.



Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #421 on: May 20, 2015, 03:53:47 PM »
The conclusion is only as reliable as the basic assumption.

and how many on here have a clue about what the alerts really signify..There is no rael scientific  information about the reliability of the alerts yet amaral made the claim that Maddie died in the apartment and is believed by several thousand gullible people...at least I am being honest...shame amaral wasn't

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #422 on: May 20, 2015, 04:01:24 PM »
I am fully aware of that.

We already know he misunderstood the results.

However, they haven't precluded the the possibility of a body, have they ?

there are 1200 people donating to amaral's fund who are not aware that amaral misunderstood the results..

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #423 on: May 20, 2015, 04:03:20 PM »
there are 1200 people donating to amaral's fund who are not aware that amaral misunderstood the results..

Many repeat donations.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #424 on: May 20, 2015, 04:09:27 PM »
If amaral had not resigned from the PJ....Would he have been sacked and lost his pension when he was given the criminal conviction

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #425 on: May 20, 2015, 04:10:50 PM »
Thanks for posting that G-Unit. The important question is, what is the minimum PMI (postmorteminterval) which can later be detected by a dog. That carpet square experiment doesn't tell us the minimum PMI required, it just tells us that 3hrs is above that minimum (because no subjects with shorter PMI were tested).

This experiment http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html found that to produce an alert, the PMI must be at least 1hr25mins.

That study appears to be limited.

- There is no indication, based on that, as to how long a scent would remain discernible when open to the air  (and not in sealed bags) in an apartment rented out and no doubt aired by numerous people.

- Eddie didn't inspect that apartment until months later.

- What absorbent material did Eddie react to (carefully sealed or not), either in that apartment or in the car?

Offline Admin

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #426 on: May 20, 2015, 04:22:43 PM »
If amaral had not resigned from the PJ....Would he have been sacked and lost his pension when he was given the criminal conviction

Was it a case of jump or be shoved?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #427 on: May 20, 2015, 04:24:40 PM »
Was it a case of jump or be shoved?

looks like it...perhaps that was the REAL reason he retired early.

Offline Admin

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #428 on: May 20, 2015, 04:28:36 PM »
looks like it...perhaps that was the REAL reason he retired early.

The Policia Judicial had been attempting to clean up their act when this all came upon them in 2007.  Mr Amaral might very well have retained his post had it been down to the powers that be in Faro/Portimao but once Lisbon got involved it was game over.  For him it was an unfortunate set of circumstances which came together at the most inopportune time.

Offline Admin

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #429 on: May 20, 2015, 04:38:34 PM »
there are 1200 people donating to amaral's fund who are not aware that amaral misunderstood the results..

Does anyone?

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #430 on: May 20, 2015, 04:40:11 PM »
The Policia Judicial had been attempting to clean up their act when this all came upon them in 2007.  Mr Amaral might very well have retained his post had it been down to the powers that be in Faro/Portimao but once Lisbon got involved it was game over.  For him it was an unfortunate set of circumstances which came together at the most inopportune time.

I've always been of the opinion he was way out of his depth in being tasked with the investigation in the first place; being made an arguido the following day compounded that.
I think the powers that be should have drafted in officers with some experience of dealing with child protection issues.  In the wake of Casa Pia ... surely there must have been some.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #431 on: May 20, 2015, 04:41:06 PM »

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #432 on: May 20, 2015, 05:05:00 PM »
does Grime
Of course he does, what a silly question!

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #433 on: May 20, 2015, 05:09:38 PM »
Of course he does, what a silly question!

grime says the alerts were suggestive of cadaver scent...so he doesn't know for certain....yet posters on here and elsewhere think they know...deluded

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #434 on: May 20, 2015, 05:17:19 PM »
from the little information that is available I think it is impossible for the scent to last for 3 months outside in the flowerbed without physical remains being present...that blows a massive hole in the alerts

Thirty-odd years;

Police on Thursday revived their search for Etan Patz, a 6-year-old who disappeared in 1979 en route to a New York City bus stop, after a cadaver-sniffing dog recently detected the odor of human remains in a basement near Patz’s SoHo home.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/04/etan_patz_search_renewed_can_cadaver_dogs_smell_30_year_old_corpses_.html
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