Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 835680 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #450 on: May 20, 2015, 06:08:57 PM »
not more than a possibility...just a possibility

and absolutely no evidence of abduction. 8((()*/

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #451 on: May 20, 2015, 06:11:58 PM »
so according to that it was blood...we now know Gerry's .....so no cadaver in the car

Do we really "know"? Did the FSS report state categorically it was Gerry's blood? Did Gerry ever mention that he had shed blood in his car? Just  playing devil's advocate.

PS You are also assuming that because both dogs alert at the same place it means "blood". That's not necessarily a given.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #452 on: May 20, 2015, 06:12:46 PM »
and absolutely no evidence of abduction. 8((()*/

none that you understand

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #453 on: May 20, 2015, 06:14:34 PM »
Do we really "know"? Did the FSS report state categorically it was Gerry's blood? Did Gerry ever mention that he had shed blood in his car? Just  playing devil's advocate.

PS You are also assuming that because both dogs alert at the same place it means "blood". That's not necessarily a given.
What does it mean then?

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #454 on: May 20, 2015, 06:22:08 PM »
So why did Eddie have to be put inside the wardrobe in 5a before he indicated?

I don' think there is any mystery here. Eddie will hone in eventually to the source of the scent he is looking for. He ran around the whole bedroom trying to find it. He settled in an area near the wardrobe. It could have been the bed nearest the wardrobe, not necessarily the wardrobe, although it could have been. The point is he settled in an area near there outwith a large room at least three times a car area.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #455 on: May 20, 2015, 06:23:02 PM »
Do we really "know"? Did the FSS report state categorically it was Gerry's blood? Did Gerry ever mention that he had shed blood in his car? Just  playing devil's advocate.

PS You are also assuming that because both dogs alert at the same place it means "blood". That's not necessarily a given.


Keela detects only blood. Forensic science is not so exact, so the FSS couldn't say what it was, but it contained DNA. There could have been blood and cadaver odour in the car, but we don't know.
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Offline misty

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #456 on: May 20, 2015, 06:25:22 PM »
Do we really "know"? Did the FSS report state categorically it was Gerry's blood? Did Gerry ever mention that he had shed blood in his car? Just  playing devil's advocate.

PS You are also assuming that because both dogs alert at the same place it means "blood". That's not necessarily a given.

How quickly would the odour from the blood on the key have dissipated from the closed car  into the surrounding area, & up to 10m away & still be scented by Eddie?

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #457 on: May 20, 2015, 06:25:58 PM »
so again we have no confirmation of cadaver in the car

There is no such thing as "confirmation" of cadaver odour. If there were, there wouldn't be hundreds of posts arguing the toss (excuse my French). You see, science hasn't yet caught up with cadaver dog capabilities.

Offline misty

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #458 on: May 20, 2015, 06:29:14 PM »
I don' think there is any mystery here. Eddie will hone in eventually to the source of the scent he is looking for. He ran around the whole bedroom trying to find it. He settled in an area near the wardrobe. It could have been the bed nearest the wardrobe, not necessarily the wardrobe, although it could have been. The point is he settled in an area near there outwith a large room at least three times a car area.
Grime was quite specific that Eddie was indicating to the wardrobe. What you are suggesting is that there could have been blood on the carpet....or the bed...or the bedcovers....none of which were forensically tested....

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #459 on: May 20, 2015, 06:42:35 PM »
and how many on here have a clue about what the alerts really signify..There is no rael scientific  information about the reliability of the alerts yet amaral made the claim that Maddie died in the apartment and is believed by several thousand gullible people...at least I am being honest...shame amaral wasn't
I was referring to your conclusion.

You posted:

from the little information that is available I think it is impossible for the scent to last for 3 months outside in the flowerbed without physical remains being present...that blows a massive hole in the alerts.
Your conclusion is: that blows a massive hole in the alerts. based on your assumption prefaced with  I think.

Maybe you should read some of the papers on the use of dogs in looking for MIAs in Vietnam 25 years plus after the event.


"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #460 on: May 20, 2015, 06:43:54 PM »
I wish there was a multiquote function here.

@Alfred, all it means is that there is a possibility both scents are found in the same place

@GUnit, I was referring to the FSS results not being 100% definite that they found Gerry's DNA, whether it came from blood or shed skin cells, etc. This is in the context of many posters stating it as a fact whilst at the same time insisting Madeleine Mccanns DNA was not found, (in other samples) when both results were not conclusive and both samples contained DNA markers from them both.

@Misty, there is no point asking me about the intricacies of blood odour dispersal and timelines, I don't know.

@Misty, no, I am not suggesting there could have been blood in the carpet or bedcovers,  and Eddie alerted to that, for the simple reason that if there were, Keela will have indicated there, but she did not. (Remember Mr Grime sayng, "if there is blood there, she will find it")

I am cooking and posting at the same time. NOT a good idea, so need to go for a wee bit. Fascinating subject though.


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #461 on: May 20, 2015, 06:55:07 PM »
none that you understand

Well provide  evidence that can be backed up.

Surely you can do that.

P.S. People standing in a street looking at a building  isn't evidence of abduction.

it's mere desperation.

Since with no abduction................................

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #462 on: May 20, 2015, 07:01:12 PM »
I wish there was a multiquote function here.

@Alfred, all it means is that there is a possibility both scents are found in the same place

@GUnit, I was referring to the FSS results not being 100% definite that they found Gerry's DNA, whether it came from blood or shed skin cells, etc. This is in the context of many posters stating it as a fact whilst at the same time insisting Madeleine Mccanns DNA was not found, (in other samples) when both results were not conclusive and both samples contained DNA markers from them both.

@Misty, there is no point asking me about the intricacies of blood odour dispersal and timelines, I don't know.

@Misty, no, I am not suggesting there could have been blood in the carpet or bedcovers,  and Eddie alerted to that, for the simple reason that if there were, Keela will have indicated there, but she did not. (Remember Mr Grime sayng, "if there is blood there, she will find it")

I am cooking and posting at the same time. NOT a good idea, so need to go for a wee bit. Fascinating subject though.

RE: your answer to me above  - if both dogs alert to the same spot and it could mean either blood or cadaver and blood then what is the point of deploying two dogs in cases like this?  Why not simply use Eddie and dispense with Keela's services altogether?

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #463 on: May 20, 2015, 07:18:14 PM »
Do we really "know"? Did the FSS report state categorically it was Gerry's blood? Did Gerry ever mention that he had shed blood in his car? Just  playing devil's advocate.

PS You are also assuming that because both dogs alert at the same place it means "blood". That's not necessarily a given.

The FSS said;

A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)). This sample has not been sent for further testing using LCN DNA profiling tests.

I don't know why they didn't test further.

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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #464 on: May 20, 2015, 07:27:00 PM »
I take it we have established that we don't know what, scientifically, the prime suspect AKA Eddie, was smelling?
What's up, old man?