Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 835641 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #615 on: May 23, 2015, 04:38:50 PM »
Were I doing the job I would not re-trace steps taken by the original investigation if I were satisfied of their completeness simply because of the cost of duplication of effort to no better end.
Areas of which there were no record for any reason what ever I would cover. Not being party to any of it means we are surmising but it seems not unreasonable to conclude:
The areas were searched and records were not kept/lost/misfiled/incomplete.
The areas were not searched.
It was a PR exercise.
fait vos jeux.
I still don't like the PR option so "mon jeux" is on one of the others.

Like you, I would dismiss the PR option out of hand, particularly as much of the publicity generated was negative in the extreme and they knew that before starting.
I don't dismiss that it may have been designed to deflect attention from what they were really doing while mopping up a few loose ends.

I think all the going over old ground was carried out right at the beginning of the scoping exercise and it was a necessary diligence.

Whatever they were doing on the mound or the other places they checked out, and whoever they were interested in for whatever reason arises from information available in 2007 which has developed perhaps via new sources or things overlooked back then.

What the locus of the Welsh dogs was, I have no idea, but I am sure SY and the PJ know the exact significance and maybe someday we will find out ... hopefully when the case is solved.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #616 on: May 23, 2015, 05:05:03 PM »
"August 2007. OPERATION TASK CANINE SEARCH REPORT... (snip)... The following searches were conducted: (snip) ... Western beach Praia da Luz ... (snip)"
No video or photos of this dog search have been released.
Does "western beach" mean the little beach on the west side of the fort?
This is the closest beach to the sighting which Mr Amaral thinks is important.
Shining do you know anything about the history of the big rectangular drain here?
It looks much older than the modern round drains.
First of all, on searches, despite being familiar with both the terrain in Luz and fairly familiar with the searches in and around Luz, I have come to the conclusion that I have little idea about what was searched of how it was searched, at more or less every point in time (SY search excluded).

The Mark Warner search was supposedly 'structured', though the mechanics are flimsy and if you can tell me exactly which areas were searched that night, I would be grateful for your enlightenment, as I think this is important.

If it was a 'missing child' procedure, I doubt it was designed to remove tin covers to see if anyone was underneath.  That would have been a 'dead child concealed' search.

Whether the little beach near Smithman was searched that night or in Aug 2007, I know not.  From the Fortaleza/Bull heading west, there is the little beach, then possibly miles of rocky shore before the cliffs kick in.

As to the drain on the little beach.  To be perfectly truthful, I have no certainty of its history.

The Ocean Club is 'modern' (from the era of tourist holidays by air), whilst Luz had/has a lot of older buildings that clearly predate this.  Many of these are around the locality of the Smithman sighting.  A number of houses on Rua Calheta are 'new', but many are 'cottages' that predate the Ocean Club.  Ditto Rua Direita and Rua 25 de Abril have fair numbers of buildings going back to when Luz was just a fishing village.

So, we have water from Rua Direita, Rua 25 de Abril and Rua Calheta, the old village, that needs to be dumped somewhere.

I suspect that all the rainwater drains that empty into the sea pre-date the Ocean Club.

The one on the little beach happens to be at one of the lowest road levels in Luz.  It is the one with the shortest distance from the roads to the sea.  I'd guess it is either equal oldest or actually wins the oldie prize.

But that is an interpretation of the data, rather than a knowledge of historical fact.

Note to Mods.  Yes - off topic.  But please don't delete.  Snip and start a new thread if you think we are too far off.
What's up, old man?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #617 on: May 23, 2015, 05:09:48 PM »
I can't do that.  Snip and start a new thread.

So please let's not have any quotes or answers on this last post, as I shall have to consider removing them.

Thank You.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #618 on: May 23, 2015, 05:45:49 PM »
I can't do that.  Snip and start a new thread.

So please let's not have any quotes or answers on this last post, as I shall have to consider removing them.

Thank You.
I'm still a newbie and trying to find my way around this rabbit warren.

Is there a more appropriate thread in existence? Please point me at it and I will happily snip to there.  Or set up a new thread if an appropriate one does not exist.

My thanks in advance.
What's up, old man?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #619 on: May 23, 2015, 05:51:32 PM »
I'm still a newbie and trying to find my way around this rabbit warren.

Is there a more appropriate thread in existence? Please point me at it and I will happily snip to there.  Or set up a new thread if an appropriate one does not exist.

My thanks in advance.

It looks like a new Thread to me.  You start it, and all things being equal, I will approve it shortly.

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #620 on: May 26, 2015, 09:54:00 PM »
The days of stakes and string lines are long gone.

By chance I came across a photograph which illustrates the way in which areas to be searched were sub divided ...


Police investigate second area of scrubland in Madeleine McCann search
http://www.itv.com/news/2014-06-11/police-investigate-second-area-of-scrubland-in-madeleine-mccann-search/
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #621 on: May 26, 2015, 10:12:34 PM »
By chance I came across a photograph which illustrates the way in which areas to be searched were sub divided ...


Police investigate second area of scrubland in Madeleine McCann search
http://www.itv.com/news/2014-06-11/police-investigate-second-area-of-scrubland-in-madeleine-mccann-search/

You said:
The ground was totally unsuitable for an actual grid to be laid out and worked.
Looks like we were both wrong really.
Mind you I guess it was set out using the optical instrument on the tripod in shot.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #622 on: May 26, 2015, 10:37:57 PM »
You said:
The ground was totally unsuitable for an actual grid to be laid out and worked.
Looks like we were both wrong really.
Mind you I guess it was set out using the optical instrument on the tripod in shot.

It was obvious there would be some method in use to mark out the areas to be searched and ticked off ... whether that was in the form of a physical grid and/or theodolite ... it seems that our argument was along the lines of how many angels ...
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #623 on: May 27, 2015, 11:18:41 AM »
It was obvious there would be some method in use to mark out the areas to be searched and ticked off ... whether that was in the form of a physical grid and/or theodolite ... it seems that our argument was along the lines of how many angels ...

A heavenly host of them.

But not on this thread ....

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #624 on: May 27, 2015, 11:29:08 AM »
A heavenly host of them.

But not on this thread ....

  Absolutely right ...  8((()*/  ... I think we may have started off talking about Amaral and the dogs ... or the Welsh dogs, at least ... but got distracted into our private little spat ... so what's new?

The thought arises though, and it is possible the correct thread to raise it on ... did anyone check out the plumbing in the apartment after Eddie's alert in the wardrobe?
Bearing in mind that the fitted wardrobe shared a wall with the toilet.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #625 on: May 27, 2015, 11:55:47 AM »
  Absolutely right ...  8((()*/  ... I think we may have started off talking about Amaral and the dogs ... or the Welsh dogs, at least ... but got distracted into our private little spat ... so what's new?

The thought arises though, and it is possible the correct thread to raise it on ... did anyone check out the plumbing in the apartment after Eddie's alert in the wardrobe?
Bearing in mind that the fitted wardrobe shared a wall with the toilet.

Interesting point, Brietta.

I hope this is sufficiently on topic as it is related to Amaral and the dogs...

Did Amaral ever ask for the architect's plans of Block 5 to check for entrances to a crawl space? I am reliably told that there would almost certainly be a large area under 5A to a) level off the ground and b) provide access in the event of major works.




Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #626 on: May 27, 2015, 12:21:49 PM »
Interesting point, Brietta.

I hope this is sufficiently on topic as it is related to Amaral and the dogs...

Did Amaral ever ask for the architect's plans of Block 5 to check for entrances to a crawl space? I am reliably told that there would almost certainly be a large area under 5A to a) level off the ground and b) provide access in the event of major works.

Putrecine and cadaverine, both components of decomposition, are found in urine and faeces ... hardly surprising since both are waste products from the body.
Plumbing smells indiscernible to the human nose could be indicated by a cadaver dog 'on the job' ... pity no-one checked that situation out.   

I don't think there is a record of any inspections carried out in the founds of the building ... or if the lift mechanism was checked out.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carew

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #627 on: May 27, 2015, 12:41:18 PM »
The wonder is that the dogs can ever be dragged away from all the smells indiscernible to the human nose around lavatories, bathrooms and nappy changing areas all over the place.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #628 on: May 27, 2015, 01:07:20 PM »
If these dogs alerted to toilets/sewerage they would never be able to be used in houses.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #629 on: May 27, 2015, 01:25:15 PM »
The wonder is that the dogs can ever be dragged away from all the smells indiscernible to the human nose around lavatories, bathrooms and nappy changing areas all over the place.

You never said a truer word ... and is very likely why Judges and Juries prefer alerts to be accompanied by corroborative forensic or other evidence.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....