Amaral and the dogs

[Carew]

Some kind of hardwired toggled interlock? 

Not up to the computer speak.........but it could be Infinite Baffle on the Woofer.

[Alice Purjorick]

No area in Luz was worked on a grid method in 2014.

General areas of interest (3) had cordon tape set around the outside to keep the media and public off.

When an area of particular interest (within the general area) was identified they then stuck in iron or steel stanchions on each corner, set up a small rectangle of tape, and worked within that.

The area to the east of Luz that was searched was quite large.  First, the entire perimeter was taped off.  Then, a quite small area within that had (presumably) metals rods banged in and the rectangle of interest taped off.  Then they searched that rectangle.

Then they concluded there was nothing of interest.

There does not seem to have been a comprehensive, meticulous or methodical search of areas to the east of Luz.

Just whack in a small search area, check that scrupulously, then move on.

Blimey; as the cops appear to have had a theodolite I would have hoped the minimum they did was set out from an immovable temporary trig point to fix the coordinates of the "corners" of each search area so at least they knew where they were, in the sense that it would be repeatable so they could mark it out again if necessary.

[Alice Purjorick]

Not up to the computer speak.........but it could be Infinite Baffle on the Woofer.

It's not computer speak! It is basic controls. Gosh how offended am I that you should think I am some kind of computer geek?.....eeek!

[Carew]

It's not computer speak! It is basic controls. Gosh how offended am I that you should think I am some kind of computer geek?.....eeek!

I must be below basic then, O Geek..........( "interlock" to me means Winter Vests, as recommended by my Gran. )

[Brietta]

O.K............put it this way........When in "work mode" what stops the dog reacting to lavatories/bathrooms/nappy changing areas present at most sites and homes everywhere when investigating a possible death?

It is all in the training and perhaps in the dog.

For example ... dogs are trained not to disturb or contaminate evidence to which their noses have led them.  We have seen playful Eddie tossing cuddle cat around much to the bemusement of Inspector Joao Carlos.  We have seen him throwing clothing around during his inspection in the gymnasium.
Very definitely not a trained response.

We know that Eddie reacted to some extraordinary materials in Jersey ... so unless the a possible source for his behaviour in the McCann apartment has been checked and eliminated ... the possibility must remain, particularly as urine and faeces are detritus from a human body just as the semen which contaminated the tissue Eddie alerted to is.


**snip
6) Dogs used to develop probable cause based upon residual scent must be negatively conditioned to human urine, feces, and semen in order to ensure that the animal will not alert when encountering these substances during a search.
http://www.csst.org/forensic_evidence_canines.html

[pathfinder73]

It is all in the training and perhaps in the dog.

For example ... dogs are trained not to disturb or contaminate evidence to which their noses have led them.  We have seen playful Eddie tossing cuddle cat around much to the bemusement of Inspector Joao Carlos.  We have seen him throwing clothing around during his inspection in the gymnasium.
Very definitely not a trained response.

We know that Eddie reacted to some extraordinary materials in Jersey ... so unless the a possible source for his behaviour in the McCann apartment has been checked and eliminated ... the possibility must remain, particularly as urine and faeces are detritus from a human body just as the semen which contaminated the tissue Eddie alerted to is.


**snip
6) Dogs used to develop probable cause based upon residual scent must be negatively conditioned to human urine, feces, and semen in order to ensure that the animal will not alert when encountering these substances during a search.
http://www.csst.org/forensic_evidence_canines.html

Mark Harrison also suggests that we use the skills of two totally remarkable dogs: the first an EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog), achieves outstanding performance in the detection of human cadaver odour; the second, a CSI dog (Crime Scene Investigation) is capable of smelling the tiniest trace of blood, knowing how to recognise its human origin. (TOTL)

The dog alerts will be proved if this case is solved. They couldn't control them or Amaral so they're the enemy.

1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''
 Reply "I can't, no.' (DP)

[Mr Gray]

The dog's alerted only to areas that the PJ had been. All it would have taken is for one of the PJ to have been in contact with a cadaver. Alternatively amaral could have contaminated the scene deliberately in order to try and get a confession

[lordpookles]

That is a worrying concern imo. Portugal, although I have never been though may visit this year, but not to Prai da luz, but to sample some of their green wine is according to a good friend the type of place where you can offer a bribe. I'm sure we've all been to countries like that before. Maybe my friend is mistaken, but Amaral given his previous convictions is not adverse to applying some Sweeney style tactics. I wouldn't trust this man given the info we know so far. Maybe SY do not either... All the stuff regarding alerting to the loos or airtight cars is a far less credible proposition imo.

[Brietta]

That is a worrying concern imo. Portugal, although I have never been though may visit this year, but not to Prai da luz, but to sample some of their green wine is according to a good friend the type of place where you can offer a bribe. I'm sure we've all been to countries like that before. Maybe my friend is mistaken, but Amaral given his previous convictions is not adverse to applying some Sweeney style tactics. I wouldn't trust this man given the info we know so far. Maybe SY do not either... All the stuff regarding alerting to the loos or airtight cars is a far less credible proposition imo.

I think Mr Amaral was misled by the hard sell given to him re the skills of the dogs and I think it possible he genuinely believed the alerts.
There can be no argument that he 'jumped the gun' regarding the FSS results.

There was no further investigation carried out into what might have triggered the dogs' response even for elimination purposes. 
I have seen it mentioned in more than one publication, that a contra indication to the efficiency of a VRD is a panting dog ... now think back to the soundtrack of videos of Eddie racing around in PDL.

[G-Unit]

Mark Harrison also suggests that we use the skills of two totally remarkable dogs: the first an EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog), achieves outstanding performance in the detection of human cadaver odour; the second, a CSI dog (Crime Scene Investigation) is capable of smelling the tiniest trace of blood, knowing how to recognise its human origin. (TOTL)

The dog alerts will be proved if this case is solved. They couldn't control them or Amaral so they're the enemy.

1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''
 Reply "I can't, no.' (DP)

   Mind you, neither could Kate. After the children went to bed;
She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Or did she have a shower earlier?

While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Whichever, Gerry thought she had a bath earlier, he had one after the children went to bed;

As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

I don't find it strange that the PJ believed the dogs got it right, because the statements were a mess.

[pathfinder73]

  Mind you, neither could Kate. After the children went to bed;
She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Or did she have a shower earlier?

While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Whichever, Gerry thought she had a bath earlier, he had one after the children went to bed;

As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

I don't find it strange that the PJ believed the dogs got it right, because the statements were a mess.

It won't only be the PJ who think the dogs were correct. Their statements from 5:30 onwards are a shambles. We decided not to take them out before Gerry left for tennis then Gerry is sending David to help Kate bring the kids out 30 minutes later. There are too many contradictions from 5:30 onwards. This is the last time three witnesses saw Maddy and they can't agree on anything. Dave was inside no he wasn't.

It was around 7:15PM when they put the children to bed and checked they were sleeping, she says she is sure of this.  Before leaving they checked on the children, she doesn't know who; however Gerry says it was him. 
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

He does not know if they were asleep but from the silence he presumed that they were.
At 20H35, they left the apartment in the direction of the TAPAS. Before they left and because the children's bedroom door was ajar as always, he opened it a little more, listening from the outside and, as there was complete silence he did not enter, returning the door to its previous position, with a space of about 10cm.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Too strange to be believed. They can't look in past that pesky ajar door to check on their children. The door was always ajar I tell you until Tannerman moved it.

But wait Gerry said they did check on the children before leaving re 4 May statement.

After 20.30, the witness and his wife, after looking at the children, went to the Tapas Bar, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

[Brietta]

  Mind you, neither could Kate. After the children went to bed;
She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Or did she have a shower earlier?

While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Whichever, Gerry thought she had a bath earlier, he had one after the children went to bed;

As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

I don't find it strange that the PJ believed the dogs got it right, because the statements were a mess.

Absolutely ... a total mess ... how fortunate it is that SY are using professionally translated files which are sequential.

I'm not absolutely sure you can tar the PJ as a whole with the stick of making such a pig's ear of the dogs inspections, Inspector Joćo Carlos questioned the visual reports which the coordinator accepted hook line and sinker ... so blame where blame is due

[G-Unit]

Absolutely ... a total mess ... how fortunate it is that SY are using professionally translated files which are sequential.

I'm not absolutely sure you can tar the PJ as a whole with the stick of making such a pig's ear of the dogs inspections, Inspector Joćo Carlos questioned the visual reports which the coordinator accepted hook line and sinker ... so blame where blame is due

Are you suggesting that the anomalies are due to translation errors? Wow, big errors! Kate was wrapped in a towel when David arrived - oh no she wasn't. 

Time will tell perhaps about the veracity or otherwise of the dog alerts. Keela wasn't wrong once, and people can assume that Eddie was wrong, but he could have been right.

[Mr Gray]

  Mind you, neither could Kate. After the children went to bed;
She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Or did she have a shower earlier?

While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

Whichever, Gerry thought she had a bath earlier, he had one after the children went to bed;

As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

I don't find it strange that the PJ believed the dogs got it right, because the statements were a mess.

these were the statements given in English and translated....the ones where kate complained about mistranslations.....

It's not unusual to have a  shower followed by a bath...some of us don't like to relax in a bath of dirty water particularly if we have been covered in suncream

[pathfinder73]

these were the statements given in English and translated....the ones where kate complained about mistranslations.....

It's not unusual to have a  shower followed by a bath...some of us don't like to relax in a bath of dirty water particularly if we have been covered in suncream

CC likes a good scrub aswell. Kate had just finished a long run so if she wanted a shower she would have it as soon as she went through the door and before Gerry left for tennis. The statements reveal what the normal time was for the kids bath but this has now changed to Kate's shower time 1830.  And David couldn't remember her only wearing a towel. Oh yes I believe every word they say