Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 835462 times)

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Offline misty

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #870 on: July 13, 2015, 03:30:13 PM »
... the sniffer dog that GNR sent to the location, on the day following the english girl’s disappearance. It’s an animal that only follows odours, and that “detected the movement of the child from the room to another point inside the apartment”, according to a source with the Guarda. The same source said that “based on that signal, it was not possible to conclude whether the child was alive or dead – because a sniffer dog will smell both the living and the dead”. Yet, outside the house, both through the windows that faced the Tapas restaurant – where the McCanns had dinner with their seven friends – and through the main door, “the dog lost the trail, as if the child had exited, for example, rolled up in a blanket”, that source said.
Source: Sol, 4 Aug 2007

I believe the Sol reporter has confused what he was told the VRD dogs found as being what the GNR sniffer dogs found. We know that the GNR dogs followed Madeleine's(?) scent from the front door.
The date of the report is the clue.

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #871 on: July 13, 2015, 03:30:41 PM »
Wrong scent, perhaps?
If it was another person's scent, it would still be remarkable, to track a scent to a point on a plan of a residence, and have the scent just end there and go nowhere. Why would Sol invent such an apparent impossibility?

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #872 on: July 13, 2015, 03:38:12 PM »
I believe the Sol reporter has confused what he was told the VRD dogs found as being what the GNR sniffer dogs found. We know that the GNR dogs followed Madeleine's(?) scent from the front door.
The date of the report is the clue.
The Sol article is dated 4th Aug but claims to be describing a GNR dog's indoor track on 4th May
"on the day following the English girl's disappearance".

Offline misty

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #873 on: July 13, 2015, 03:50:04 PM »
The Sol article is dated 4th Aug but claims to be describing a GNR dog's indoor track on 4th May
"on the day following the English girl's disappearance".


SOL ? AUGUST 18

New contradictions in Maddie?s case

By Felicia Cabrita, with Margarida Davim
Translation by astro

*snip*
The path that the English dogs followed 2 weeks ago, in the surroundings of the apartment, exclude the possibility that the child was abducted and is still alive. The dogs walked the only two paths that Maddie?s family and friends knew.

One of them leads to Luz beach. The irish citizen Martin Smith, a local resident for years, told Sol that on that night he crossed ways with a man who was carrying a child, with the characteristics of Maddie. That path was searched by police and other people. Six days after the disappearance, Gerry, who was accompanied by an unknown individual, also seemed to participate in the searches, but on the opposite side of the way the dogs walked.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martin Smith lived there for years & spoke to the Sol?
I think the Sol were very capable of putting their own spin on things.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #874 on: July 13, 2015, 03:52:03 PM »
Wrong scent, perhaps?

Dogs of the wrong scent-detecting discipline:

The search was split into 3 zones radiating out from Praia Da Luz in a northward direction. The first zone extended 3km to the EN125 road at Espiche. W?hin this zone, sectors were drawn using the natural boundaries that exist and included the entire village. Officers were briefed and debriefed before and after deployments and records of activity collected. Each sector was repeatedly searched on 3 separate occasions over the 7 days using officers conducting line searches and supported by air scenting dogs.

(Mark Harrison).

Very well-trained dogs, I'm sure, but just not of the right discipline for the type of search required.

Not remotely the fault of the GNR officers.


Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #875 on: July 13, 2015, 04:08:51 PM »
The SOL 4th Aug article claims a GNR dog was deployed to track inside the apartment on 4th May.
Forensics found numerous canine footprints and hairs all over the inside of the apartment.
This means SOL is probably correct.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #876 on: July 13, 2015, 04:12:41 PM »
The SOL 4th Aug article claims a GNR dog was deployed to track inside the apartment on 4th May.
Forensics found numerous canine footprints and hairs all over the inside of the apartment.
This means SOL is probably correct.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

SOL?

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #877 on: July 13, 2015, 05:21:49 PM »
SOL?
Yes Here is the source - scroll down to the Sol 4 Aug 2007 article.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id117.html

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #878 on: July 13, 2015, 05:39:28 PM »
Yes Here is the source - scroll down to the Sol 4 Aug 2007 article.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id117.html

Pact of silence?

The  explanation that the group couldn't discuss the investigation because of Portuguese secrecy laws?

Offline Brietta

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #879 on: July 13, 2015, 06:34:15 PM »
If it was another person's scent, it would still be remarkable, to track a scent to a point on a plan of a residence, and have the scent just end there and go nowhere. Why would Sol invent such an apparent impossibility?

Quite simply Pegasus, the press reporting of Madeleine McCann's case was a disgrace.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #880 on: July 13, 2015, 06:38:07 PM »
Pact of silence?
The  explanation that the group couldn't discuss the investigation because of Portuguese secrecy laws?
"another point in apartment"

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #881 on: July 13, 2015, 06:50:56 PM »
Quite simply Pegasus, the press reporting of Madeleine McCann's case was a disgrace.
Often yes, a good example being a journo who previously fed us the WMD guff.
But back to dogs - the numerous canine footprints (source already posted) all over the inside of apartment prove that at least one GNR dog was allowed to search inside apartment.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 07:59:10 PM by pegasus »

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #882 on: July 13, 2015, 09:02:47 PM »
Often yes, a good example being a journo who previously fed us the WMD guff.
But back to dogs - the numerous canine footprints (source already posted) all over the inside of apartment prove that at least one GNR dog was allowed to search inside apartment.

There doesn't seem to be anything in the files saying a  scent search was done inside the apartment by GNR dogs. Why would they do that? On the 4 May? The fact there were footprints and hairs (mainly in the kids bedroom) doesn't prove it was either. Its possible this "story" came on the back of the English dog findings.

PS Ferryman, if these dogs only scented a generic human scent  (as they do in disaster zones for example) they wouldn't have been given Madeleines clothes, towel and blanket, would they? What does generic human scent mean anyway? Humans were all around them!

 &%+((£
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 09:05:54 PM by mercury »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #883 on: July 13, 2015, 09:10:05 PM »
There doesn't seem to be anything in the files saying a  scent search was done inside the apartment by GNR dogs. Why would they do that? On the 4 May? The fact there were footprints and hairs (mainly in the kids bedroom) doesn't prove it was either. Its possible this "story" came on the back of the English dog findings.

PS Ferryman, if these dogs only scented a generic human scent  (as they do in disaster zones for example) they wouldn't have been given Madeleines clothes, towel and blanket, would they? What does generic human scent mean anyway? Humans were all around them!

 &%+((£

There was a debate about whether taking such a step would be worthwhile, which clearly there wouldn't have been if these handlers had ground-scenting dogs.

Ground-scenting dogs can't work any other way.

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #884 on: July 13, 2015, 09:22:55 PM »
There was a debate about whether taking such a step would be worthwhile, which clearly there wouldn't have been if these handlers had ground-scenting dogs.

Ground-scenting dogs can't work any other way.

Sorry, I didn't understand that

I questioned why would dogs who cant trace a personal scent be issued with personal items