If Madeleine walked out of the apartment which door did she exit?

[misty]

I would have said no ... particularly with a key in the lock.  The evidence suggests otherwise as far as Apartment 5A seems to have been concerned.

Quote:
After this precaution, the next day, the same thing happened and the cleaning woman entered even though the door was locked with the key in the lock.

We never found out how it was possible for a cleaning woman to enter after we had tried to prevent it.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLO-D_AMBROSIO.htm

Had I been a 'top detective' I would have wanted to know the ins and outs of that lock.

In the event ... we were given a television shot of Amaral ~ was it during his documentary? ~ demonstrating how the door lock on 5A couldn't be slipped using a credit card.
Surely he must have read the statements showing all that was required was a key?

Hopefully the attached screenshot of a page from another site makes it clear how the lock on 5A front door worked.
If the door was double-locked then the credit card method of entry wouldn't work but it would with the slip bolt engaged. IMO Madeleine would have found it quite easy to use the lock lever to exit via that door.

[Robittybob1]

Hopefully the attached screenshot of a page from another site makes it clear how the lock on 5A front door worked.
If the door was double-locked then the credit card method of entry wouldn't work but it would with the slip bolt engaged. IMO Madeleine would have found it quite easy to use the lock lever to exit via that door.

Somewhere I seen a person demonstrate that the credit card method of entry wouldn't work because a screw had been inserted so it would catch the card.  I can't remember which video this was on now sorry. It was thin faced older looking security expert explaining this.

[misty]

Somewhere I seen a person demonstrate that the credit card method of entry wouldn't work because a screw had been inserted so it would catch the card.  I can't remember which video this was on now sorry. It was thin faced older looking security expert explaining this.

That scene is on Amaral's documentary TTOTL.

[Lace]

If Madeleine woke and wandered,  how do you explain the window being open?

[Innominate]

Just a few more thoughts:

1. The growth height charts for a 4 year old girl would appear to indicate that she would be able to reach a door handle without difficulty.

2. My comment about the end of the tracker dog trial needs to be qualified by the theoretical possibility that there could have been a retracing of steps at the end. For instance if Madeleine retraced her steps across the road the dogs probably would not pick this up. The dogs also would not know if Madeleine stopped for any period of time on the route.

3. AC Mark Rowley made the following comment:

However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction.

--

In the context of an abduction from the from the apartment this a slightly bizarre and superfluous comment. By definition anyone abducted from the apartment did not leave to start a new life - they were taken against there will.

However he does say "However she left that apartment". This would include the voluntary exiting of the apartment. But, crucially, a four-year old child would not have left the apartment to voluntarily start a new life, whereas an older child might have.

Perhaps, the comment is nothing, but on the other hand ...

[Robittybob1]

I think my first attempt at leaving home to start a new life was at aged 5.

[misty]

Just a few more thoughts:

1. The growth height charts for a 4 year old girl would appear to indicate that she would be able to reach a door handle without difficulty.

2. My comment about the end of the tracker dog trial needs to be qualified by the theoretical possibility that there could have been a retracing of steps at the end. For instance if Madeleine retraced her steps across the road the dogs probably would not pick this up. The dogs also would not know if Madeleine stopped for any period of time on the route.

3. AC Mark Rowley made the following comment:

However she left that apartment, she has been abducted. It is not a 20-year-old who has gone missing and who has made a decision to start a new life, this is a young girl who is missing and at the heart of this has been an abduction.

--

In the context of an abduction from the from the apartment this a slightly bizarre and superfluous comment. By definition anyone abducted from the apartment did not leave to start a new life - they were taken against there will.

However he does say "However she left that apartment". This would include the voluntary exiting of the apartment. But, crucially, a four-year old child would not have left the apartment to voluntarily start a new life, whereas an older child might have.

Perhaps, the comment is nothing, but on the other hand ...

2. To accept the path followed by the tracker dogs as Madeleine's route that evening it is necessary to believe that she did exit by the front door after being left unattended. The S&R dogs should have started from her last known location, which was her bedroom. The dogs tracked the freshest scent, which may not necessarily have been deposited during the evening; if they really following Madeleine's trail, the scent could have emanated from an earlier exit through the front door. The McCann statements regarding this insofar as 3rd May was concerned were conflicting.
I have some difficulty believing that Madeleine's scent survived in the car park area for at least 4 days, given the amount of people who frequented it after the disappearance.

3. Madeleine could have left the apartment voluntarily with an adult she knew & trusted. What followed would not have been her choice. Equally she could have left to search for her parents (slightly involuntary) & met with an unknown fate. Then there is the involuntary abduction from the apartment by a stranger.
An optimist would say that Rowley was implying the police know Madeleine is living a new life in a place yet to be located. However, the comment was ambiguous IMO & the only fact gleaned from the comments made by  Rowley was Madeleine's case is apparently an abduction.

[Innominate]

I've done some more research.

I'm not wedded to any particular theory, but at the moment I'm interested in the 'exited the apartment via the front door' theory.

The question is what happened next? Are the tracker dogs giving any information, or is it irrelevant noise?

My understanding of the facts is that the dogs were used twice: 4/5/2007 23:00 and 8/5/2007 23:45

I've found some scientific research, which may be helpful (or not!)

https://k9sontrack.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/how-many-footsteps-to-determine-track-direction.pdf

There are two types of scenting: air scenting and contact scenting.

Air scenting appears to require the presence of the 'target', so the dogs were unlikely to be following an air scent because Madeleine was no longer in the area.
There does not appear to be scientific support for the scent arising as a result of Madeleine being carried by a potential abductor.

The second method is contact scenting.

This appears to require actual contact with the ground:

snip:

Furthermore, when individual odours were prevented
from being deposited through covering of the shoe
(Romanes, 1887) or by the wearing of a whole body suit
(Pearsall and Verbruggen, 1982) dogs were unable to follow
the trail. However, others have observed that dogs were unable
to track a trail of body odour cues, and could only follow
a trail when there had been ground contact (Budgett, 1933).

I believe it is generally accepted that Madeleine was barefoot, because her shoes were still in the apartment.

It is a tentative possibility that normally Madeleine would have been wearing shoes, which according to very old research would have prevented a trail being laid down.

Finally, it takes about 5 steps for a dog to determine direction.

The above does not prove anything, and is given for information purposes only.

[Lace]

I think my first attempt at leaving home to start a new life was at aged 5.

Then Mummy found you at the bottom of the garden with a packet of biscuits and a bag of crisps?

[Robittybob1]

Good try

[Eleanor]

Then Mummy found you at the bottom of the garden with a packet of biscuits and a bag of crisps?

And his dirty washing, hopefully.  That's what I said to my 5 year old.  "Here, you.  What about this lot."  He was back home for his tea, by the way.

[Robittybob1]

And his dirty washing, hopefully.  That's what I said to my 5 year old.  "Here, you.  What about this lot."  He was back home for his tea, by the way.

I only got as far as the letter box  (about 100 meters) from our house.

[Eleanor]

I only got as far as the letter box  (about 100 meters) from our house.

I will never forget Julian marching out of the door with his little back pack, declaring that he was leaving home.  Such a brave little soul he was.  Dear of him.

[barrier]

Good try

Should that be good bye.

[carlymichelle]

a   3  year old  should  never  have been  put in a position to  walk out of   a   apartment    door unattended in another  country  if  that is that the case   it  was  preventable