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Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => The kidnapping and shooting/murder of Anni Dewani while on her honeymoon in South Africa. Trial of Shrien Dewani was held in Cape Town, SA. => Topic started by: John on November 22, 2012, 02:06:31 PM

Title: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: John on November 22, 2012, 02:06:31 PM
Motive and Method

What is most strange about the whole affair is the manner in which it was carried out. While criminals may be thought of as morons in books and movies there is normally method in their madness as every policeman knows.
If we are dealing with either a robbery or hijacking this is how it - incredibly - happened.
They corner the car and order the 1st witness - the driver - out so that he can go and call the police.

They drive around and then allow the second witness out to identify them.
Without any intention of committing rape, using her as a hostage or taking the car they murder Anni and leave the car where it can be found by the police.
Why didn't they just turn themselves in and spare the police the bother?

If robbery and hijacking were not the real motive that leaves murder.
If that is so then why would you ever let two witnesses out of the vehicle? In this case 3 dead makes far more sense than 1.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Tim Invictus on December 05, 2012, 04:21:31 PM
Motive and Method

What is most strange about the whole affair is the manner in which it was carried out. While criminals may be thought of as morons in books and movies there is normally method in their madness as every policeman knows.
If we are dealing with either a robbery or hijacking this is how it - incredibly - happened.
They corner the car and order the 1st witness - the driver - out so that he can go and call the police.

They drive around and then allow the second witness out to identify them.
Without any intention of committing rape, using her as a hostage or taking the car they murder Anni and leave the car where it can be found by the police.
Why didn't they just turn themselves in and spare the police the bother?

If robbery and hijacking were not the real motive that leaves murder.
If that is so then why would you ever let two witnesses out of the vehicle? In this case 3 dead makes far more sense than 1.

What a ridiculous plan  as you rightly say John. They should have dumped the burnt out car ... buried her body then tried to claim a huge ransom from the family. The way they did it seems to be purely for the murder and that's exactly what it was; murder for hire!
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Padgates staff on December 05, 2012, 04:32:50 PM
In a programme I saw, Annies Dad was interviewed (lovely, lovely man) and he said when he got the phonecall from Shrien, he was saying to Shrien "Don't worry, it'll be a kidnapping, we'll pay the ransom and get her back" to which Shriens replied (something like "You don't understand, I didn't protect your daughter" (Go to 5 minues and 34 seconds on the link), this took place before Annie was found and it makes me wonder if Shrien already knew the outcome, so it was either a planned murder, kidnapping gone wrong or I wonder if Shrien had taken an insurance policy out and wanted to collect. The other thing I found interesting was, they hadn't registered the marriage in the UK, so in the eyes of English Law, Shrien wasn't her next of kin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiOIUgrTvso
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Tim Invictus on December 05, 2012, 05:08:37 PM
In a programme I saw, Annies Dad was interviewed (lovely, lovely man) and he said when he got the phonecall from Shrien, he was saying to Shrien "Don't worry, it'll be a kidnapping, we'll pay the ransom and get her back" to which Shriens replied (something like "You don't understand, I didn't protect your daughter" (Go to 5 minues and 34 seconds on the link), this took place before Annie was found and it makes me wonder if Shrien already knew the outcome, so it was either a planned murder, kidnapping gone wrong or I wonder if Shrien had taken an insurance policy out and wanted to collect. The other thing I found interesting was, they hadn't registered the marriage in the UK, so in the eyes of English Law, Shrien wasn't her next of kin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiOIUgrTvso

Did you also see Shrien Dewani's gay adventures with male sado masochistic prostitutes and the businessman who said he had an affair with Dewani? He quote "didn't want to have sex" with Anni before they married and didn't sleep with her on their wedding night!

Evidently there are text messages and hotel bookings that evidence his secret gay life ... Max Clifford doesn't talk about that does he!

I think Dewani felt trapped in his marriage so chose the surprise honeymoon destination of South Africa because it's now infamous for car hijackings and murder!  IMHO Dewani booked that trip with murder on his mind!
 
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Padgates staff on December 05, 2012, 05:23:50 PM
You don't really go into the townships to look how people live in the dark and wearing 'going out dancing' clothes and high heels (especially if you're male!)  >@@(*&)
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: puglove on December 05, 2012, 05:27:44 PM
In a programme I saw, Annies Dad was interviewed (lovely, lovely man) and he said when he got the phonecall from Shrien, he was saying to Shrien "Don't worry, it'll be a kidnapping, we'll pay the ransom and get her back" to which Shriens replied (something like "You don't understand, I didn't protect your daughter" (Go to 5 minues and 34 seconds on the link), this took place before Annie was found and it makes me wonder if Shrien already knew the outcome, so it was either a planned murder, kidnapping gone wrong or I wonder if Shrien had taken an insurance policy out and wanted to collect. The other thing I found interesting was, they hadn't registered the marriage in the UK, so in the eyes of English Law, Shrien wasn't her next of kin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiOIUgrTvso

Did you also see Shrien Dewani's gay adventures with male sado masochistic prostitutes and the businessman who said he had an affair with Dewani? He quote "didn't want to have sex" with Anni before they married and didn't sleep with her on their wedding night!

Evidently there are text messages and hotel bookings that evidence his secret gay life ... Max Clifford doesn't talk about that does he!

I think Dewani felt trapped in his marriage so chose the surprise honeymoon destination of South Africa because it's now infamous for car hijackings and murder!  IMHO Dewani booked that trip with murder on his mind!

I agree. A gay man, using a beautiful, innocent, intelligent girl from a good family to cover for his lifestyle.  There's CCTV footage of him paying the killers.

I must admit though, I'm suprised at Max Clifford getting involved in this.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Tim Invictus on December 05, 2012, 09:36:08 PM
In a programme I saw, Annies Dad was interviewed (lovely, lovely man) and he said when he got the phonecall from Shrien, he was saying to Shrien "Don't worry, it'll be a kidnapping, we'll pay the ransom and get her back" to which Shriens replied (something like "You don't understand, I didn't protect your daughter" (Go to 5 minues and 34 seconds on the link), this took place before Annie was found and it makes me wonder if Shrien already knew the outcome, so it was either a planned murder, kidnapping gone wrong or I wonder if Shrien had taken an insurance policy out and wanted to collect. The other thing I found interesting was, they hadn't registered the marriage in the UK, so in the eyes of English Law, Shrien wasn't her next of kin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiOIUgrTvso

Did you also see Shrien Dewani's gay adventures with male sado masochistic prostitutes and the businessman who said he had an affair with Dewani? He quote "didn't want to have sex" with Anni before they married and didn't sleep with her on their wedding night!

Evidently there are text messages and hotel bookings that evidence his secret gay life ... Max Clifford doesn't talk about that does he!

I think Dewani felt trapped in his marriage so chose the surprise honeymoon destination of South Africa because it's now infamous for car hijackings and murder!  IMHO Dewani booked that trip with murder on his mind!

I agree. A gay man, using a beautiful, innocent, intelligent girl from a good family to cover for his lifestyle.  There's CCTV footage of him paying the killers.

I must admit though, I'm suprised at Max Clifford getting involved in this.

I agree Shona ... and the Hindu community doesn't readily accept gays let alone what could be described as a deviant one! He was hiding himself in marriage in my opinion and the reality of it he just could not handle. Divorce is a definite no no and would have brought shame to his family .... so he just killed her!

Max Clifford doesn't surprise me at all ... he would say or do anything for money!
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on August 31, 2013, 01:23:20 PM
This seems to be another trial-by-tabloid case at the moment.

I'm not aware of all the "facts" in this case. I did follow it for a while, but would have to refresh my memory on some details.

Just a few questions...

- If he had wanted to bump off his bride, wouldn't it have been easier to arrange while they were in Kruger National Park?

- What were the conditions of this plea deal with Tonga? Was the entire period of questioning video-recorded?

- What if the money Dewani paid had simply been an innocent arrangement for a tourist-guide chauffeur?

- What if Tonga and the carjackers had been in cahoots to simulate a carjacking, but Anni's killing was unintended? Tonga could have been "thrown" out of the car to make him appear innocent.

- The so-called detail about Dewani being thrown out of a back "window" doesn't seem to make much sense. Did the car have a sliding door?

- Dewani could have been thrown out as a future witness to Tonga's "innocence" and possibly to prevent him protecting his wife.

From the Wiki page:

Anni Dewani's body was taken to Cape Town hospital. The post-mortem examination found she had died from a single gunshot wound to the neck, which had severed an artery, and that she was not sexually assaulted.[21] However, an investigation by the BBC Panorama obtained the post-mortem report which showed that a bullet actually passed through Anni's hand, followed by her chest and the wound on her neck was actually an exit wound. The report said the bullet left what it called "an irregular gunshot exit wound". It was reported that this suggested that there had been some sort of struggle.[22]


(...)
On 19 February 2011, the Sunday Telegraph revealed evidence uncovered by Shrien's investigation team that had found a new witness to the murder. Not yet interviewed by the police, the female student, who lived less than 100 feet (30 m) from the location of where the VW Sharan taxi was found, stated that she noted at 08:00 that Anni Dewani's underwear was below her knees and her dress pulled up. Further, the post-mortem report stated that there were a number of dark bruises on Anni's legs, consistent with "finger mark" grips. Consistent with evidence from previous official reports of the positions of her hands, the article concluded that a possible outcome was that Anni was shot whilst trying to defend herself against a rape attack.[28]

If that turns out to be true, there could have been an attempted rape, or a struggle on her part.

- Why go to Gugulethu?

'Mzoli's Place is heaven'
2009-04-16 09:01

Johannesburg - Celebrity chef Jamie Oliver is featuring a Gugulethu restaurant, Mzoli's Place, on the cover of his magazine in April, describing its food as "heaven".

The Times newspaper reported that Oliver spent a day at the restaurant, sampling a variety of meats and swapping recipes with the owner, Mzoli Ngcawuzele.

"He learnt from us and we learnt from him. And he enjoyed the food. When he got his meal, he said, 'wow', he was taken aback," Ngcawuzele said.

Oliver, in a seven-page spread, described his day-long visit to the butchery-cum-restaurant as "totally sexy".

"The whole experience was totally sexy: the heat, the music, the food and the people, where patrons choose cuts of raw meat to be braaied and served.

"In this part of the world, fresh is where it's at. Just kill it. Gut it. Skin it. Eat it. Heaven," wrote Oliver.

"When I go back to Cape Town, I am absolutely going to Mzoli's."

http://www.news24.com/Entertainment/SouthAfrica/Mzolis-Place-is-heaven-20090416

That could sound like a fun place to visit.

Anni and Shrien may not have been aware that it apparently closed at 8pm (if the article below is accurate). Or may not have intended to have dinner there at all.

    

Corner of NY 115 and NY108 in Gugs
"Our come2capetown.com secret and personal no.1": Tucked away amidst the crowded humdrum of Gugs, short for Gugulethu, is one particular gem- Mzoli's Butchery. You might ask, "how can a township butchery be an ideal 'sundowner' spot'? Well if truth be told, this is no ordinary butchery- it's a place in the township to connect; anyone from Gugs is there, driving the oldest cars put together with sticky tape, or the latest BMW Z4.
Buy a drink at the hairdresser's next door sit down on the 'stoep' and listen to -undoubtedly the best - mix of funk, r&b and Kwaito lounge. You will probably hear it only next year in Camps Bay. Relax as you buy meat from the butchery; they will braai it on the premises in the back in what could almost be called a braai factory.
   
"Thando'll look after you"
The good thing for the sun downer time is that some of the kids have a great time there as well; 'Thando', a little 8 year old, smilingly told me he will look after you.
Mzoli's opens at 9am and closes around about 8pm- remember that you be coming here to have a sun downer drink on the block with the best atmosphere in Cape Town. No attitude or stuck up people, just down to earth people enjoying themselves. Just to be on the safe side, if you're not from Gugulethu, ask someone from Gugs to come with.
 
"Pictures to show their white friends at work, to show the white guys Gugs is safe to have a sun downer"
The butchery, opened early this year, is famous for attracting members of parliament, who want to be seen in the township and mostly black entrepreneurs, apart from virtually anyone of the locals from Gugs. Mzoli Ngcawuzela, owner of the butchery says the local community has supported him tremendously. "The people are very friendly because the environment is safe," he says. Some guys actually take pictures with their cell phone of the few white people that are there to show their white friends at work Gugs is actually safe and has the atmosphere..

http://web.archive.org/web/20071017064213/http://come2capetown.com/newsletter/oct/tourism.htm

Despite the PR, it doesn't seem to have been that safe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mzoli%27s

- Did they intend to have dinner there, then changed their minds to go to the other place? Or to simply pass by (e.g., with the intention of perhaps going on another day for lunch)?

I'd be surprised if they had intended to go for dinner there wearing jewellery.







Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on August 31, 2013, 01:25:54 PM

Police chief brands honeymoon murder suspect a 'monkey'
By Jo Adetunji

Friday 10 December 2010
      

South Africa's chief of police yesterday described the British widower of a tourist killed on honeymoon in Cape Town as a "monkey" as he insisted his force was right to consider him a murder suspect.

The national police commissioner, Bheki Cele, aimed his comments at Shrien Dewani, who was accused of arranging the murder of his wife, Anni Dewani, 28, while the couple honeymooned in South Africa last month.

Speaking in Limpopo province, Mr Cele said: "One monkey came from London to kill his wife here. He thought we South Africans were stupid. Don't kill people here."

Extradition lawyers said that it was not uncommon for foreign police in extradition cases to make negative comments on suspects and while Mr Cele's comments did not necessarily leave Mr Dewani open to an unfair trial if he is extradited, they did raise questions about whether the police could prejudice the case.

Mr Dewani, 30, was arrested by British police on behalf of the South African authorities after he voluntarily walked into a Bristol police station on Tuesday. The evidence against Mr Dewani rests on the testimony of the couple's taxi driver, Zola Tongo, who was sentenced to 18 years in prison after admitting his role in a plea bargain with South African prosecutors.

Tongo told the High Court in Cape Town that Mr Dewani hired him to drive the newlyweds through Gugulethu, a township notorious for violent crime, where two accomplices would stage a carjacking in which Tongo and Mr Dewani would be freed. He claimed Mr Dewani organised the hit shortly after arriving in South Africa, which Mr Dewani denies. Mrs Dewani's body was found with bullet wounds in the abandoned car.

The two alleged accomplices, Xolile Mnguni, 23, and Mzwamadoda Qwabe, 25, face charges including murder and kidnapping and will remain in custody until a hearing in February.

Mr Dewani, who was described as being in a "dreadful state" following the killing, is strongly supported by his family. He was granted bail on Wednesday after his relatives put up a £250,000 bond but he was taken back into custody after the South African government lodged an appeal his release. He remains in custody pending a High Court hearing today.

Senior district judge Howard Riddle said: "Either Mr Dewani over a period of time plotted the murder of his wife or he is one of the tragic victims of this incident." He added: "It is clear there is evidence that has been put before me and on the face of it, and I put it no higher than that, evidence on which a trial could evidently proceed."

Matters were further complicated after Mr Dewani's previous lawyer, Billy Gundelfinger, announced he was "amicably" withdrawing.

Mr Cele's comments could also spark criticism from those who believe the police are not doing enough to counter violent crime in South Africa and in particular the Gugulethu township. The South African Institute of Race Relations said the South African police were "out of touch with reality" last month after the force expressed shock at Mrs Dewani's murder.

"If they are truly shocked it suggests the police's senior management are out of touch with the reality of life on the ground for people in areas such as Gugulethu who have been left to run the gauntlet of violent crime," it said, adding that there had been 700 murders in the township since 2005.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-chief-brands-honeymoon-murder-suspect-a-monkey-2155939.html


Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: puglove on September 05, 2013, 11:18:17 PM
But that requires her alive.

Unless it would be convenient for him to be a "grieving widower", too distraught to marry again.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Redblossom on September 07, 2013, 09:20:32 PM
Not that there has to be or should be, but is there any precedent for a widower going into a mental hospital sufferring from PTSD after his wife is killed and staying  there for years? Especially if he has been accused of setting the murder up?

Is there any rational explanation of why he would take his fiance/bride to a notriously dangerous area of SA at night to show her the sights? What sights? Those of rapes burglaries car jackings and murders? lovely honeymoon memento though....guilty as sin in my book

Correct me if Im wrong, wasnt he au fait with SA? And that was her first trip there?





 



Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Angelo222 on September 08, 2013, 02:41:50 AM
One things for sure and that is he is on a one way trip back to South Africa and to his due desserts.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on September 08, 2013, 10:31:49 AM
Trial by media rules again...
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Redblossom on September 08, 2013, 03:41:02 PM
One things for sure and that is he is on a one way trip back to South Africa and to his due desserts.

Well obviously the judge ruling on the extradition believed there may be a case however diplomatically he put it! Snipped from Caranas post above

Quote

Senior district judge Howard Riddle said: "Either Mr Dewani over a period of time plotted the murder of his wife or he is one of the tragic victims of this incident." He added: "It is clear there is evidence that has been put before me and on the face of it, and I put it no higher than that, evidence on which a trial could evidently proceed."

Unquote

Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Redblossom on September 08, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
Trial by media rules again...

Having and expressing  opinion is allowed last time I looked...and yes, there is going to be a trial in SA...in a court! The papers have kept quiet all in all, just reported the facts to date. And there is no sub judice in place either.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on September 10, 2013, 10:19:37 AM
What was the origin of this gay escort story?

It is anything more than a guy thinking he could make money out of the tabloids?


Leopold Leisser, a German-born, gay escort, has sold his story to a tabloid newspaper in which he claimed that he had had sex with Mr Dewani three times – although on the dates in question Mr Dewani has gathered evidence to show he was not in Birmingham or London where the encounters are supposed to have taken place.

He is planning to sue for libel over the claim. Mr Leisser, whose hotel consultancy business has debts of £27,000 according to accounts lodged at Companies House, refused to comment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/8211596/Honeymoon-murder-Anni-Dewani-was-shot-dead-accidentally-by-her-abductor.html
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on September 10, 2013, 10:35:04 AM
Honeymoon murder: Anni Dewani was 'shot dead accidentally' by her abductor
Anni Dewani, the bride murdered on her honeymoon, was shot dead accidentally by her abductor as he tried to rape her, according to expert evidence commissioned by her husband’s legal team.
Link to this video

By Robert Mendick and Stewart Maclean in Cape Town

9:00PM GMT 18 Dec 2010

Lawyers will argue that the analysis helps to disprove the theory that Mrs Dewani was executed by hitmen hired by her husband Shrien Dewani.

Instead, it backs up his version that Mrs Dewani’s murder was the result of a carjacking gone wrong.

The new evidence comes as a close member of Mr Dewani’s family broke their silence to tell of their fears the millionaire will not receive a fair trial in South Africa.

Video footage of the couple enjoying their first dance at their wedding at the end of October was released to The Sunday Telegraph as further evidence the couple were ‘madly in love with each other’.

The minute-long compilation shows Mr Dewani and his new bride smiling and laughing together.

The family says it is further proof there were no marital problems which could have led Mr Dewani to have his bride murdered.

It is also understood that expert advice from ballistics and forensics experts commissioned by Mr Dewani’s defence team shows the single bullet which killed Mrs Dewani passed first through her hand and then into her neck, severing an artery.

The post mortem also shows Mrs Dewani’s killer had at one stage grabbed her leg, suggesting she may have struggled and that the gun may have gone off accidentally.

A legal source said: “There is a clear grip mark on her lower leg and the wound doesn’t look like an execution style one.

"It looks like the gun could have been accidentally discharged in circumstances where they were threatening to rape her.”

The evidence gathered by Mr Dewani’s legal team will be used in the British courts to try and block South Africa’s attempts to extradite the 30-year-old.

They will also argue that Mr Dewani, a businessman from Bristol, will not receive a fair trial in South Africa following a number of prejudicial comments made by South Africa’s national police commissioner, who branded him a “monkey [who had come] from London to kill his wife here”.

A close relative told The Sunday Telegraph: “Shrien has been rocked by people in senior positions in South Africa with influence and power referring to him as a monkey, a murderer and evil.

"In comparison with this country it would be almost unheard of for senior politicians and members of the police force to refer to anybody in these terms and that is difficult to understand.

“Comments by these people have not added to the confidence we should have in the administration of justice in South Africa. We are fearful of lots of things and the actions of those around us are compounding and adding to that fear.

The relative added: “The evidence they [the South Africans] have provided is flimsy and implausible in the extreme. To have him vilified and treated as guilty is disgusting.”

The relative said claims that the two men accused of murdering Mrs Dewani confessed only after that had been beaten and tortured – one of the men claimed to have had a plastic bag pulled over his head during questioning – had added to Mr Dewani’s concerns about being forced to return to South Africa to face trial.

The main evidence against Mr Dewani appears to be a signed confession from taxi driver Zola Tongo who received a reduced jail term of 18 years after striking a plea bargain.

He has accused Mr Dewani of arranging the murder of his 28-year-old, Swedish-born wife on Nov 13.

The relative questioned how Tongo could afford his lawyer’s legal fees when he was supposed to be so impoverished he had accepted just £95 (1,000 Rand) as part of his deal to hire two contract killers on Mr Dewani’s behalf.

Tongo’s aunt Nokwanda Siga-Tongo appeared to question why Tongo would have organised the murder for so little money.

“He was the most successful person in our family – he had his taxi job and was doing extra work on the side too,” said Mrs Siga-Tongo.

“Why would he do this for 1,000 rand? It doesn’t make sense and we are sure something is not right in the story.”

Mr Dewani’s relative suggested the businessman was being set up to preserve South Africa’s reputation among tourists.

The relative said: “Tourism is obviously a huge revenue stream for the South Africans and I would expect them to do everything possible to protect that revenue.

“I think this whole thing has turned into something much bigger than anyone ever expected and the sad thing is it has distracted from the real truth which is Anni has been taken away from us and we don’t know why or what happened.

“Shrien is devastated; he can’t sleep he is getting playbacks of what happened and he is conscious his future has been taken away from him.

"This is the girl he fell in love with and had mapped out a future with. Every effort is now being made to make sure the truth comes out and his name is cleared.

"The legal team are looking at a whole category of stuff. No stone will be left unturned.”

The Dewani family have been horrified by a series of smears that appear designed to damage Mr Dewani’s reputation.

The police have so far been unable to suggest a motive – at least publicly – for why he might have wished to have his wife murdered.

Detectives have in their possession CCTV images which they claim shows Mr Dewani having meetings with Tongo before the murder and then handing over a bag of cash three days after it.

But the family point out that at that stage Tongo was not a suspect and Mr Dewani was paying him for driving the couple in the area.

They point out the improbability of Mr Dewani recruiting a taxi driver to help assassinate his wife within an hour of landing in Cape Town.

Other claims levelled against Mr Dewani and used as ‘evidence’ of his guilt include a claim the couple had rowed on their honeymoon flight – which is denied.

It is also suggested Mr Dewani had changed money in Cape Town on the black market at a pawnbrokers’ to hide his payments to the assassins. It now transpires changing money in such places is commonplace.

Police have even suggested a link to another murder in South Africa three years ago – even though Mr Dewani had never been to South Africa until his honeymoon.

Heather Raghavjee, whose husband was murdered in a carjacking in 2007, said yesterday reports of a connection between the crimes were “hurtful and disrespectful”.

The South African police, who failed to find her husband’s killers, have not contacted her in more than a year.

Leopold Leisser, a German-born, gay escort, has sold his story to a tabloid newspaper in which he claimed that he had had sex with Mr Dewani three times – although on the dates in question Mr Dewani has gathered evidence to show he was not in Birmingham or London where the encounters are supposed to have taken place.

He is planning to sue for libel over the claim. Mr Leisser, whose hotel consultancy business has debts of £27,000 according to accounts lodged at Companies House, refused to comment.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/8211596/Honeymoon-murder-Anni-Dewani-was-shot-dead-accidentally-by-her-abductor.html
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Redblossom on September 10, 2013, 06:03:23 PM
What was the origin of this gay escort story?

It is anything more than a guy thinking he could make money out of the tabloids?


Leopold Leisser, a German-born, gay escort, has sold his story to a tabloid newspaper in which he claimed that he had had sex with Mr Dewani three times – although on the dates in question Mr Dewani has gathered evidence to show he was not in Birmingham or London where the encounters are supposed to have taken place.

He is planning to sue for libel over the claim. Mr Leisser, whose hotel consultancy business has debts of £27,000 according to accounts lodged at Companies House, refused to comment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/8211596/Honeymoon-murder-Anni-Dewani-was-shot-dead-accidentally-by-her-abductor.html

dunno, bit like his ex fiancee saying he was impotent......? Or didntwant to have sex? Didnt he dump her days after getting engaged?

Just because something turns up in the tabloids doesnt always mean it is a lie, and for that matter broadsheet *respected* papers have also been proven to lie carana

Do you also think Annis sister was lying when she said Anni was ringing her from her honeymoon crying her eyes out was a lie too?
Whilst dewani ws sayng they were havng the best time ever? hello?







Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on September 15, 2013, 05:34:02 AM
I am close to someone who was married briefly to a gay man who tricked her into marrying him in order to attempt cover up his lifestyle.

He didn't actually kill her when she began talking to others about the problems in their unconsummated, so-called  marriage - but he threatened to.

All the hallmarks here in this case, before, during and after the wedding

Very sad
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Joanne on September 15, 2013, 07:34:01 AM
I don't think it's uncommon Sherlock, Liberace was going to marry Joanne Rio, Alan Turig and Joan Clarke to name a couple (but I don't believe it's a male issue, there must be examples of women doing this too).
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Myster on September 15, 2013, 10:15:51 AM
It's all becoming clearer now why she wanted out of this sham marriage, and Dewani's extraordinary solution !...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420838/Moment-Dewani-bizarre-gun-gesture-murdered-wifes-bombshell-texts-reveal-torment-marriage-perfectionist.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420838/Moment-Dewani-bizarre-gun-gesture-murdered-wifes-bombshell-texts-reveal-torment-marriage-perfectionist.html)
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on September 15, 2013, 10:46:33 AM
I haven't seen the Panorama documentary in question.


Dewani Uncle Criticises BBC Over Documentary
A programme casting doubt on the case against a man accused of murdering his wife has angered the family of his alleged victim.
8:50pm UK, Saturday 14 September 2013
Shrien Dewani, 31, with his wife Anni, who he is accused of hiring a hitman to kill.

Video: BBC's Dewani Documentary Criticised
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The uncle of murdered honeymooner Anni Dewani has accused documentary makers of interfering in the justice system ahead of a programme raising questions about the case against her alleged killer.

Ashok Hindocha, the uncle of Anni Dewani who was killed in South Africa in November 2010, said it is up for a court to look at allegations against her former husband Shrien.

He is accused of ordering the murder of his new bride, who was shot in the neck as the couple travelled in a taxi in the outskirts of Cape Town.

A team from BBC series Panorama has obtained police files concerning the prosecution case against Shrien Dewani and has asked forensic experts to examine them.

A BBC spokesman said the experts' findings have exposed "fundamental failings" in the police investigation, and it is in the public interest for them to be aired.
Shrien Dewani Shrien Dewani is fighting extradition to South Africa

The programme is due to be broadcast next Thursday.

But Mr Hindocha told Sky News that the BBC should pull the programme, and instead hand over the documents to Dewani's defence.

"What the BBC is doing is not correct. This programme should not be run before the trial.

"Justice should be served in a court of law. Let's cross-examine, put the evidence on the table, let everyone see.

"Has all the evidence been presented to the BBC? I don't know.

"The case should be done in a court of law, not in a studio somewhere with public funding. No, that is very wrong."

In July District Judge Howard Riddle ruled that Dewani should be extradited to face trial in South Africa, now that the 33-year-old has recovered sufficiently from mental health problems.
Xolile Mngeni (L) and Mziwamadoda Qwabe in court over Anni Dewani killing Xolile Mngeni and Mziwamadoda Qwabe

But lawyers acting for Dewani immediately announced their intention to appeal, and are expected to continue with their legal fight next month.

A BBC spokesman said: "BBC Panorama has obtained the secret police files which make up the prosecution case against Shrien Dewani and has commissioned leading forensic experts to review all the evidence.

"Their findings expose fundamental failings in the police investigation.

"Panorama strongly believes it is in the public interest for these matters to be aired.

"We understand that the programme may be difficult viewing for Anni's family and have approached it sensitively, including contacting her uncle, as the representative of the family, in advance, to let him know that it would air on September 19.

"We received replies from Mr Hindocha which did not raise these objections.

"The police evidence we have obtained is neither manufactured nor stolen, nor did we pay for it."

Dewani has undergone treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder and depression at psychiatric hospitals near Bristol since his wife's death.

It emerged that he has been allowed to position a camper van in the grounds of Fromeside hospital, where he spends hours at a time, and is also allowed unregulated access to a laptop and visits to his nearby home every day.

A spokesman for Dewani family told Sky News: "Shrien was committed to clearing his name in a court of law when he was fit and well enough to travel."

So far three men have been convicted over Mrs Dewani's death.

Last year South African Xolile Mngeni was convicted of premeditated murder for shooting her.

Prosecutors claimed that he was a hitman hired by Dewani to kill his wife, something that Dewani has consistently denied.

Taxi driver Zola Tongo was jailed for 18 years after he admitted his part in the killing, and another accomplice, Mziwamadoda Qwabe, also pleaded guilty to murder and was handed a 25-year prison sentence.

The programme calls into question their testimony.

http://news.sky.com/story/1141801/dewani-uncle-criticises-bbc-over-documentary
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on September 15, 2013, 10:54:01 AM
I am close to someone who was married briefly to a gay man who tricked her into marrying him in order to attempt cover up his lifestyle.

He didn't actually kill her when she began talking to others about the problems in their unconsummated, so-called  marriage - but he threatened to.

All the hallmarks here in this case, before, during and after the wedding

Very sad

I guess that we can all extrapolate personal experiences to form an opinion.

However, what evidence - beyond tabloid coverage - would indicate that anyone's personal experiences are relevant to this particular case?
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on September 15, 2013, 12:26:02 PM
I had thought that this board was about trying to distinguish fact from fiction in the interest of justice.

Perhaps I was wrong.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Myster on September 15, 2013, 01:10:53 PM
From that article:

Her reaction was immediate: ‘Anni broke off the relationship because she wanted to have children in the future,’ said Sneha.

Here is his way out of that marriage before it happens without killing anyone. All he had to do if he didn't want to go through with it was tell his family, she broke it off.

Yet according to her cousin, Shrien Dewani persuaded Anni to marry him three times. If I remember rightly, he already had one failed engagement or marriage to someone else behind him and wanted to save face with his family by going ahead with this one. In the words of Hugo Keith QC - "he could not break out of the engagement because he would be disowned by his family"

Wasn't the desire to be married just a cover for homosexuality ?.

The arguments between them continued in SA, and the only way out for him if his thinking was disturbed was that last desperate one.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Carana on September 15, 2013, 02:18:36 PM
Yet according to her cousin, Shrien Dewani persuaded Anni to marry him three times. If I remember rightly, he already had one failed engagement or marriage to someone else behind him and wanted to save face with his family by going ahead with this one. In the words of Hugo Keith QC - "he could not break out of the engagement because he would be disowned by his family"

Wasn't the desire to be married just a cover for homosexuality ?.

The arguments between them continued in SA, and the only way out for him if his thinking was disturbed was that last desperate one.

What evidence is there that he was gay?

Has no one here ever been in a relationship that didn't work out prior to a marriage commitment?
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Myster on September 15, 2013, 02:57:35 PM
What evidence is there that he was gay?

Has no one here ever been in a relationship that didn't work out prior to a marriage commitment?

No doubt all will be revealed in the court case if it ever gets that far, i.e. if Shrien Dewani doesn't continue to evade his responsibilities, acts like a man and returns to South Africa ASAP.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on September 15, 2013, 04:22:08 PM
I guess that we can all extrapolate personal experiences to form an opinion.

However, what evidence - beyond tabloid coverage - would indicate that anyone's personal experiences are relevant to this particular case?

Personal experiences don't constitute evidence, no.

But knowledge or experience of something helps us spot patters and red flags.

There seem to be a lot of parallels between the case I knew of and this one here, that's all.
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Redblossom on September 15, 2013, 06:39:58 PM
Every single one of the vindication cases that I posted in another thread believed that those originally accused were guilty. None of them were. Some victims' families develop their own beliefs and nothing will shake it. The recent Rachel Manning murder is a case in point. Her mother still blames Barri White for not taking her home. Rachel's death was not in any way White's fault. Terry White brandished a gun at John Actie for Jeffrey Gafoor's crime and [ censored word ] Tony Paris.

Police tell victims' families what they want, so it is hardly surprising that Anni's family believe it, along with Dewani doing his utmost not to be sent back. This is now a complete mess. The case against him depends mainly on unreliable witnesses. The money given to the driver is perfectly consistent with being given for that purpose alone and being obtained on black market for convenience or rate. This is hardly a water-tight case.

He may or may not have ordered it. I don't know, but the evidence I have seen so far is far from compelling.

She was havng a really bad time, was very unhappy, as evidenced by all the texts, then they go to tour in one of the real dangerous parts of town at night, why? and she loses her life....just bad luck? If Dewani had been to SA several times before, and therefore knew the place,why did he take her there?

Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Redblossom on September 15, 2013, 07:58:56 PM
What evidence is there that he had been there several times? I'm not saying he is innocent. I don't know, but the witnesses against him are far from credible.

Ok slaps own wrist, I read it somewhere.....I have no link, I wont post anythng here in future without one...there  is a report that someone had an impression he had done so,  but his passport from 2006 showed no visits....laters
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: AnneGuedes on September 16, 2013, 12:10:27 AM
Let's imagine he's a gay, he married Anni in order to stage he's heterosexual. Why should he get rid of her ? She certainly would never be able to rape him in order to have kids ! Was he afraid she would tell everybody the marriage wasn't consummated ? These cases exist. You can't blame a man for being impotent. Apparently Anni was hoping that sooner or later she would be pregnant. Apparently this was what she wanted most. It's hard to understand the cousin, receiving those sms during months and not reacting.
I find it hard to believe Shrien planed this murder. He stupidly thought he was taking advantage of some situation and did some crooked thing possibly to make money, and, as he should have expected, that turned very wrong.
It's terrible to oppose the glamour of the Indian wedding (all appearances) to the vulgarity of the attack and death (tragic reality).
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Sherlock Holmes on September 16, 2013, 12:35:12 AM
Let's imagine he's a gay, he married Anni in order to stage he's heterosexual. Why should he get rid of her ? She certainly would never be able to rape him in order to have kids ! Was he afraid she would tell everybody the marriage wasn't consummated ? These cases exist. You can't blame a man for being impotent. Apparently Anni was hoping that sooner or later she would be pregnant. Apparently this was what she wanted most. It's hard to understand the cousin, receiving those sms during months and not reacting.
I find it hard to believe Shrien planed this murder. He stupidly thought he was taking advantage of some situation and did some crooked thing possibly to make money, and, as he should have expected, that turned very wrong.
It's terrible to oppose the glamour of the Indian wedding (all appearances) to the vulgarity of the attack and death (tragic reality).

It is hard to imagine why he would have gone as far as to kill her, but unfortunately these things do happen.

I mentioned before a person I know very well who went through a similar thing. The husband, in my friend's case, had never had any kind of relationship with a woman before the marriage, and married my friend, a very attractive woman, for cover. (The more attractive the better - if the whole world thinks she's attractive, so, in the eyes of the world, must the husband).

We assume that he just hoped and prayed that he would be able to consummate the marriage and pretend everything was OK. But he couldn't manage it.

A few days after the wedding, he panicked. He was terrified his wife, who was starting to work out what was going on, would spill the beans and his former lifestyle, which he had succeeded in keeping a secret from his new wife and people in her circle, would become publicly revealed.

He did threaten to kill her, threats she took seriously. She left their home and was very careful about her personal safety for several months afterwards, as he had displayed a great deal of displaced anger and frustration towards her in the few days after the wedding, and was clearly a very troubled person.

A long story, but that's it in a nutshell. Hard to believe in today's world, but a lot of people from traditional backgrounds face such pressures, partly social and partly self imposed, as we see in this case too.
Title: Speak of the, uh, devil...
Post by: lane99 on June 02, 2014, 09:29:54 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583547/Gay-bank-worker-murdered-wife-marrying-hide-sexuality.html
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Anna on June 11, 2014, 11:06:49 PM
Anni Dewani murder: Xolile Mngeni in critical condition in hospital

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75427000/jpg/_75427575_xolile.jpg)
Xolile Mngeni was diagnosed with a malignant brain tumour soon after his arrest in 2011
A South African man convicted of murdering Anni Dewani on her honeymoon in 2010 is critically ill in hospital.
Xolile Mngeni, who is serving a life sentence for her murder in Cape Town, was diagnosed with a malignant brain tumour soon after his arrest in 2011.
The news was confirmed by a BBC South Africa correspondent, who said Mngeni was admitted to hospital on Tuesday.
Bristol businessman Shrien Dewani was extradited in April to stand trial, accused of ordering his wife's killing.


Shrien Dewani denies involvement in his wife's murder
Mrs Dewani's body was found with a single gunshot wound to the neck after she and her husband were kidnapped while travelling in a taxi through the outskirts of Cape Town.
He was released unharmed and denies any involvement in his wife's murder.
'Critical condition'
Three men, including Mngeni, have already been convicted in connection with Mrs Dewani's death.
Mngeni, whose trial was repeatedly delayed while he had surgery to remove a brain tumour, is serving a life sentence for firing the shot that killed Mrs Dewani.
BBC correspondent Milton Nkosi said despite the "belief that he was recovering" Mngeni had been admitted to hospital on Tuesday.
"The Department of Correctional Services told us because of the patient, doctor confidentiality they cannot disclose the details of his condition," he said.
"But what we know is that he is in a serious, critical condition in hospital in Cape Town."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-27784575
Title: Re: Anni Dewani - Motive and Method
Post by: Real justice on August 07, 2018, 08:02:56 PM
What evidence is there that he was gay?

Has no one here ever been in a relationship that didn't work out prior to a marriage commitment?
Seems it’s been confirmed after all?

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2018-08-03-shrien-dewani-finds-love-with-man-four-years-after-honeymoon-murder-trial/