Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects

[misty]

Thanks Misty, 249 questions with answers, interesting

If I was one of the 4 persons of interest or local LE, I would be very uncomfortable about what Klein has disclosed.
His conjecture of death by blunt force trauma appears, once again, to be at odds with his insinuation Deorr was never at the campsite.
Let us hope that there are more answers when the results of tests on the camo jacket & cars are made public, together with the mysterious purchases on the friend's credit card.
I look at all the many photos of young Deorr taken during the months before this event and all I see is a very happy little boy showing no signs of neglect or abuse. His mum, where pictured with him, looks genuinely affectionate. It would be difficult to believe she is involved in harming him in some way.

[misty]

@Misty I looked at all the 200+ questions and answers and I picked out one phrase.
(The investigator is talking about evidence locations on the pickup truck).
"Wheel well"

I think Mr Klein has been reading too many Portuguese detective novels!

Is this the part you are referring to?

"Tracking dogs on hit on the truck. CD dogs never hit other than Vernal's truck, wheel base, back bumper and bed of truck".

[pegasus]

I think Mr Klein has been reading too many Portuguese detective novels!

Is this the part you are referring to?

"Tracking dogs on hit on the truck. CD dogs never hit other than Vernal's truck, wheel base, back bumper and bed of truck".

I refer to (in the same Q and A session)
"a dog hitting on the wheel well, bumper and truck bed
... blood trace and spatter found in the same areas when lit up with a LL"

What you posted Misty adds the valuable information that it was the rear bumper.

Now an important language difference. In british "wheel well" often means "a recess for storing the spare wheel" - but in american it can mean something crucially different (and nothing to do with the spare) which is ..... .... (interested to see if you get same answer Misty?)

[misty]

I refer to (in the same Q and A session)
"a dog hitting on the wheel well, bumper and truck bed
... blood trace and spatter found in the same areas when lit up with a LL"

What you posted Misty adds the valuable information that it was the rear bumper.

Now an important language difference. In british "wheel well" often means "a recess for storing the spare wheel" - but in american it can mean something crucially different (and nothing to do with the spare) which is ..... .... (interested to see if you get same answer Misty?)

It's what we call under the wheel arch, I think.
Here's the US definition. https://www.huskyliners.com/Wheel-Well-Guards-Wheel-Well-Liners

I thought that this evidence had been forensically tested & was not a match to young Deorr?  I'm pretty sure the  parents would have been arrested by now if it was.

[pegasus]

It's what we call under the wheel arch, I think.
Here's the US definition. https://www.huskyliners.com/Wheel-Well-Guards-Wheel-Well-Liners

I thought that this evidence had been forensically tested & was not a match to young Deorr?  I'm pretty sure the  parents would have been arrested by now if it was.

Yes that's same as I concluded Misty it means "wheel arch" .
Do you have a link for "forensically tested & was not a match" please.

[pegasus]

A recent KIC statement says "area 2" located by dog "Chance" is east of the "cattle guard".

I located the "cattle guard" and from where they camped it is about 0.45 km (0.27 miles) downhill along the track towards town.

[pegasus]

I now have a hypothesis what happened which begins like this.
1. Each of the adults thought another of the adults was watching the child. This situation has happened in other cases, it can happen very easily, and I see no reason to disbelieve it.
2. The child wanders off alone, most likely downhill along the track towards the cattle guard.
3. After some time, the adults realise the child is missing.
4. The adults begin searching.

[misty]

Yes that's same as I concluded Misty it means "wheel arch" .
Do you have a link for "forensically tested & was not a match" please.

Please bear with me on the link; I just have a recollection of reading/hearing about the forensics somewhere. It's going to take a few nights of reading to find what I'm looking for.
Having gone back to the very beginning (using Websleuths) there are conflicting statements about blood & cerebral fluids. However, didn't Klein say that his team hadn't examined Vernal's truck - and Sheriff Bowerman said that he'd shared no LE evidence with Klein in his recent radio interview?

[misty]

I now have a hypothesis what happened which begins like this.
1. Each of the adults thought another of the adults was watching the child. This situation has happened in other cases, it can happen very easily, and I see no reason to disbelieve it.
2. The child wanders off alone, most likely downhill along the track towards the cattle guard.
3. After some time, the adults realise the child is missing.
4. The adults begin searching.

I'd go along with part of that. I think GGP fell asleep and the parents were away from the site considerably longer than 15 minutes. What happened next, I don't know.

[pegasus]

I'd go along with part of that. I think GGP fell asleep and the parents were away from the site considerably longer than 15 minutes. What happened next, I don't know.

What if the child wanders away from the the campsite, gets tired and falls asleep on the ground?

[pegasus]

IMO the child wandered away from the campsite during the time he was accidentally unsupervised.
Why didn't the immediate foot search find him?
After wandering off, is it possible he fell asleep somewhere out of sight?
Here is something to back up the hypothesis

"he was playing ... he was getting ready for a nap
 ... by that time it was almost two (o'clock) and he usually takes his nap"

Source: At 8m47s in http://youtu.be/mwM1oG3z358

[misty]

IMO the child wandered away from the campsite during the time he was accidentally unsupervised.
Why didn't the immediate foot search find him?
After wandering off, is it possible he fell asleep somewhere out of sight?
Here is something to back up the hypothesis

"he was playing ... he was getting ready for a nap
 ... by that time it was almost two (o'clock) and he usually takes his nap"

Source: At 8m47s in http://youtu.be/mwM1oG3z358

All of that makes sense - he was tired & crotchety when VK bought him the candy bar at the store, he could have fallen asleep somewhere in the brush & would have been difficult to spot, especially wearing a camo jacket & dark boots BUT:-
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/
from about 2m20s the father spoke about the excellent search & rescue helicopter(s).
This interview was uploaded 3 days after Deorr went missing but I'm unaware how quickly the 'copters were brought in. With the heat-seeking cameras, I'd be surprised if they missed a living child within the radius searched.

[pegasus]

All of that makes sense - he was tired & crotchety when VK bought him the candy bar at the store, he could have fallen asleep somewhere in the brush & would have been difficult to spot, especially wearing a camo jacket & dark boots BUT:-
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/
from about 2m20s the father spoke about the excellent search & rescue helicopter(s).
This interview was uploaded 3 days after Deorr went missing but I'm unaware how quickly the 'copters were brought in. With the heat-seeking cameras, I'd be surprised if they missed a living child within the radius searched.

Thankyou Misty, useful thoughts about the helicopter.

What if the child wanders off some distance, then falls asleep - not on open ground of very short grass, and not in the woods, but in an intermediate area of long grass or sagebrush (between the dirt road and the woods).

IMO it would be quite possible for the initial search on foot (which is stated to have lasted about 20 minutes) to miss him in long grass or sagebrush etc.

To explain why the heat-vision helicopter which arrived much later found nothing, would require a further sequence of events starting after the initial 20 minute foot search .....

[misty]

Thankyou Misty, useful thoughts about the helicopter.

What if the child wanders off some distance, then falls asleep - not on open ground of very short grass, and not in the woods, but in an intermediate area of long grass or sagebrush (between the dirt road and the woods).

IMO it would be quite possible for the initial search on foot (which is stated to have lasted about 20 minutes) to miss him in long grass or sagebrush etc.

To explain why the heat-vision helicopter which arrived much later found nothing, would require a further sequence of events starting after the initial 20 minute foot search .....

The search & rescue dogs didn't locate any scent outside the camping area, so it doesn't really fit with him with him wandering off (although not impossible, I agree, so the recently-found camo jacket & cars will be crucial).
 It does suggest he could have been carried away or removed in a vehicle, although I'm not sure what scent trail there would have been had he fallen over the ridge & down into the creek.

[pegasus]

The search & rescue dogs didn't locate any scent outside the camping area, so it doesn't really fit with him with him wandering off (although not impossible, I agree, so the recently-found camo jacket & cars will be crucial).
 It does suggest he could have been carried away or removed in a vehicle, although I'm not sure what scent trail there would have been had he fallen over the ridge & down into the creek.

IMO we can't assume that search and rescue dogs will always be able to follow a wandered child's scent - it depends greatly on the conditions.

For example tracker dogs did not manage to track the route 2-yr old Baby Rainn walked.
And tracker dogs did not manage to track the route 2-yr old Issac Leuenberger walked.