Author Topic: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?  (Read 32531 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #105 on: February 21, 2019, 07:18:01 PM »
I don’t know what BMH means.  I think as I was born before Sept 1963 my parents could have applied for Singaporean citizenship for me but didn’t which is annoying.

Singapore was still part of Malaysia in 1963 which probably had something to do with it.

Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #106 on: February 22, 2019, 10:28:26 AM »
I find it hard to understand why the people of Britain feel such hatred for a girl of 19 stranded in a refugee camp with her newborn baby.

She certainly made a wrong decision when she left her home and family to go to Syria and she hasn't shown enough remorse for that. She was, however, 15 years old; a time when a lot of young people rebel and do stupid things. I don't know what she's seen, heard and experienced since but I would be very surprised if she's mentally and physically unscathed by it. Added to that is her need to survive in a camp where many are IS members or followers. She must be aware of the danger she and her baby would face if she completely condemned IS.

We live by the rule of law in this country, not by the rule of the mob. She should come back, face the conseqiences of her decision and be deradicalised. Abandoning her as the Home Secretary has done is not just illegal in my opinion, it's not sensible. I find it hard to believe that he sees this girl as such a threat that she can't be contained here by our security measures. Banishing her won't, imo, prevent others from being radicalised; it's more likely to fuel the discontent. 

Her family are refusing to turn their backs on her despite her awful behaviour. I wonder how many of those baying for her blood would take that view if it was their prodigal daughter? There's no reason to kill the fatted calf, but with care and compassion there might be a chance of a worthwile outcome.


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Offline Mr Gray

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #107 on: February 22, 2019, 10:42:28 AM »
I find it hard to understand why the people of Britain feel such hatred for a girl of 19 stranded in a refugee camp with her newborn baby.

She certainly made a wrong decision when she left her home and family to go to Syria and she hasn't shown enough remorse for that. She was, however, 15 years old; a time when a lot of young people rebel and do stupid things. I don't know what she's seen, heard and experienced since but I would be very surprised if she's mentally and physically unscathed by it. Added to that is her need to survive in a camp where many are IS members or followers. She must be aware of the danger she and her baby would face if she completely condemned IS.

We live by the rule of law in this country, not by the rule of the mob. She should come back, face the conseqiences of her decision and be deradicalised. Abandoning her as the Home Secretary has done is not just illegal in my opinion, it's not sensible. I find it hard to believe that he sees this girl as such a threat that she can't be contained here by our security measures. Banishing her won't, imo, prevent others from being radicalised; it's more likely to fuel the discontent. 

Her family are refusing to turn their backs on her despite her awful behaviour. I wonder how many of those baying for her blood would take that view if it was their prodigal daughter? There's no reason to kill the fatted calf, but with care and compassion there might be a chance of a worthwile outcome.

The rule of law says her citizenship has been removed... That can be challenged in court... That's the rule of law..
I haven't heard, anyone here use the word hate....
She defends themanchester bombings... That's pretty awful in my book...

You can have your opinion but it's the law that matters
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 10:45:00 AM by Davel »

Offline Eleanor

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #108 on: February 22, 2019, 10:52:26 AM »
I find it hard to understand why the people of Britain feel such hatred for a girl of 19 stranded in a refugee camp with her newborn baby.

She certainly made a wrong decision when she left her home and family to go to Syria and she hasn't shown enough remorse for that. She was, however, 15 years old; a time when a lot of young people rebel and do stupid things. I don't know what she's seen, heard and experienced since but I would be very surprised if she's mentally and physically unscathed by it. Added to that is her need to survive in a camp where many are IS members or followers. She must be aware of the danger she and her baby would face if she completely condemned IS.

We live by the rule of law in this country, not by the rule of the mob. She should come back, face the conseqiences of her decision and be deradicalised. Abandoning her as the Home Secretary has done is not just illegal in my opinion, it's not sensible. I find it hard to believe that he sees this girl as such a threat that she can't be contained here by our security measures. Banishing her won't, imo, prevent others from being radicalised; it's more likely to fuel the discontent. 

Her family are refusing to turn their backs on her despite her awful behaviour. I wonder how many of those baying for her blood would take that view if it was their prodigal daughter? There's no reason to kill the fatted calf, but with care and compassion there might be a chance of a worthwile outcome.

But she isn't the only one.  She is unrepentant and most certainly wouldn't be wanting sanctuary if ISIS wasn't on it's last legs.

She is one of the last legs, and therefor dangerous.  Personally, I doubt she is mentally stable, or ever was.  Your average 15 year old doesn't run away to play with terrorists who think beheading people is fun.

Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #109 on: February 22, 2019, 11:50:39 AM »
But she isn't the only one.  She is unrepentant and most certainly wouldn't be wanting sanctuary if ISIS wasn't on it's last legs.

She is one of the last legs, and therefor dangerous.  Personally, I doubt she is mentally stable, or ever was.  Your average 15 year old doesn't run away to play with terrorists who think beheading people is fun.

You can't decide what she really thinks by what she says when living in a refugee camp sourounded by IS members and supporters. Given that thpse who tried to excape were killed you also can't say that she didn't want to. I don't see how she can be dangerous and if deradicalised she could be a force for good,

I don't know what her mental state was, but I very nuch doubt if she's thinking straight now after her experiences.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #110 on: February 22, 2019, 11:54:08 AM »
The rule of law says her citizenship has been removed... That can be challenged in court... That's the rule of law..
I haven't heard, anyone here use the word hate....
She defends themanchester bombings... That's pretty awful in my book...

You can have your opinion but it's the law that matters

The Home Secretary said it was lawful to renove her citizenship. Others say is wasn't. Just because you agree with him doesn't make either of you right.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #111 on: February 22, 2019, 12:00:30 PM »
The Home Secretary said it was lawful to renove her citizenship. Others say is wasn't. Just because you agree with him doesn't make either of you right.

According to UK law it is correct... According to expert opinion it us correct. .according to a previous case involving Bangladesh it's correct...
You are again qoting opinion...

Offline Mr Gray

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2019, 12:04:37 PM »
The Home Secretary said it was lawful to renove her citizenship. Others say is wasn't. Just because you agree with him doesn't make either of you right.

The Bangladeshi govt say she dies not have citizenship... And the won't let her in... She may not have citizenship at the moment but Case law shows she's entitled  to it... It's up to Bangladesh Ti show in what grounds they intend to refuse it.. And deny her entry... According to UK law as long as she is entitled to claim citizenship of Bangladesh... The UK can remove her citizenship.   Read the guardian... It explains it very well

Offline Carana

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #113 on: February 22, 2019, 12:35:58 PM »
I find it hard to understand why the people of Britain feel such hatred for a girl of 19 stranded in a refugee camp with her newborn baby.

She certainly made a wrong decision when she left her home and family to go to Syria and she hasn't shown enough remorse for that. She was, however, 15 years old; a time when a lot of young people rebel and do stupid things. I don't know what she's seen, heard and experienced since but I would be very surprised if she's mentally and physically unscathed by it. Added to that is her need to survive in a camp where many are IS members or followers. She must be aware of the danger she and her baby would face if she completely condemned IS.

We live by the rule of law in this country, not by the rule of the mob. She should come back, face the conseqiences of her decision and be deradicalised. Abandoning her as the Home Secretary has done is not just illegal in my opinion, it's not sensible. I find it hard to believe that he sees this girl as such a threat that she can't be contained here by our security measures. Banishing her won't, imo, prevent others from being radicalised; it's more likely to fuel the discontent. 

Her family are refusing to turn their backs on her despite her awful behaviour. I wonder how many of those baying for her blood would take that view if it was their prodigal daughter? There's no reason to kill the fatted calf, but with care and compassion there might be a chance of a worthwile outcome.



(Some legal ruling or other is expected in March - didn't have time to take much notice.)

I was thinking the same thing about fuelling discontent.

As to the other aspects, I've been listening to both sides. No time to list all the points so far, just a few.

Many of the points made here about kicking her out don't need repeating.

And I'd agree with others that her TV interviews are disturbing.

Another point is that it could take years to build a legal case against whatever crimes she may have committed (or been an accomplice to, or whatever else) if she were allowed back.

On the other side, I'm hearing:

- At 15, she was a victim of grooming.
- A cult phenomenon.
- Populist politics at work.
- A diversion from Brexit
- If a UK Jew were in a similar position, could that person have their UK citizenship cancelled?

Probably a few more to add.


Offline Eleanor

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #114 on: February 22, 2019, 02:11:28 PM »
You can't decide what she really thinks by what she says when living in a refugee camp sourounded by IS members and supporters. Given that thpse who tried to excape were killed you also can't say that she didn't want to. I don't see how she can be dangerous and if deradicalised she could be a force for good,

I don't know what her mental state was, but I very nuch doubt if she's thinking straight now after her experiences.

What are all of these people doing in the Refugee Camp?  Who are they?  It's not a prison.  Do they all need deradicalising?  This is getting more scary by the minute.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #115 on: February 22, 2019, 05:45:34 PM »
You can't decide what she really thinks by what she says when living in a refugee camp sourounded by IS members and supporters. Given that thpse who tried to excape were killed you also can't say that she didn't want to. I don't see how she can be dangerous and if deradicalised she could be a force for good,

I don't know what her mental state was, but I very nuch doubt if she's thinking straight now after her experiences.
She wants to escape so why haven’t they killed her yet?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #116 on: February 22, 2019, 05:47:51 PM »
deleted
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 06:39:14 PM by Vertigo Swirl »
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #117 on: February 22, 2019, 05:52:47 PM »
I find it hard to understand why some people find it hard to understand the alleged hatred shown to a traitorous enemy of the state but seem to have no problem whatsoever when such alleged hatred is shown every time (for example) the home office announces more funds to investigate a missing child case.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #118 on: February 22, 2019, 06:18:04 PM »
What are all of these people doing in the Refugee Camp?  Who are they?  It's not a prison.  Do they all need deradicalising?  This is getting more scary by the minute.

Most of them are ex Caliphate fighters and their families. There are around 30,000 pf them in that camp, including British, Canadian and French citizens.
 https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/shamima-begum-isis-bride

If every country does the same as the UK then are the locals expected to look after these people indefinately? That's hardly fair.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: ISIS Brides, should they be allowed back ?
« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2019, 06:26:15 PM »


(Some legal ruling or other is expected in March - didn't have time to take much notice.)

I was thinking the same thing about fuelling discontent.

As to the other aspects, I've been listening to both sides. No time to list all the points so far, just a few.

Many of the points made here about kicking her out don't need repeating.

And I'd agree with others that her TV interviews are disturbing.

Another point is that it could take years to build a legal case against whatever crimes she may have committed (or been an accomplice to, or whatever else) if she were allowed back.

On the other side, I'm hearing:

- At 15, she was a victim of grooming.
- A cult phenomenon.
- Populist politics at work.
- A diversion from Brexit
- If a UK Jew were in a similar position, could that person have their UK citizenship cancelled?

Probably a few more to add.

The message being sent out is that citizenship isn't sonething to feel secure about.
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