Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.

[John]

As you have said many times they may well have information we do not have....the fact is it was clearly stated by those who had most facts

Things have moved on after ten years.  Woke and wandered is a distinct possibility for many former detectives who have looked at the case.

[John]

The fact that two tracker dogs independently established the exact same route is very significant in my view.  The fact that her scent suddenly stopped opposite the entrance to mini reception evidences that something happened to her at that point.  Accident or no accident, someone lifted her from the street imo and that places the blame right back with the parents.

The corroborated efforts by the dogs which visited the scene hours after Madeleine disappeared must not be underestimated. We know that she was barefoot so if she walked out she would have left a very strong trail behind.

[Mr Gray]

The corroborated efforts by the dogs which visited the scene hours after Madeleine disappeared must not be underestimated. We know that she was barefoot so if she walked out she would have left a very strong trail behind.

Any scent trail could have been laid down at an earlier time and may not relate to Maddie leaving the apartment
The fact remains that even taking the Portuguese dogs into account the Portuguese police have all but rejected woke and wandered...that has to be highly significant and cannot be ignored

[sadie]

You evidently forget what training I have in scientific disciplines.

I also know the difference between theory and wild speculation fueled by support for the mccanns, to the exclusion of all else.

Theory requires a workable hypothesis, and Sadie's as is yours, is one-dimensional.

The difference between me and you, is that I am prepared to accept different possibilities exist, as to Madeleine's fate.

However, I do know theories require logical thinking and not wild meanderings, driven by support of the McCann's.

I place Sadie's theory inline with the scientists who claimed they developed cold fusion in the 80's.

No one was able to substantiate that claim after repeated tests.

I.M.H.O. , of course.

NOW AGAIN, where has it been proved there was someone watching the McCann's ?

P.S. Do you accept the possibility of the accidental death or the walking out scenario as possible ?

Remember neither have been disproved or proved, just like abduction.

Please let me make it clear, i have had no contact with The Mccanns nor SY with this theory.   As far as I know, they know nothing of it. 

It is what it is, merely a theory, but it works.
It would have been flawless as far as i can see, had it not been for that untimely chat by Gerry and Jez.  And, of course, Jane appearing unexpectedly on the scene. 

Russell and Janes daughter was unexpectedly poorly and frequent visits (and stays) were necessary.   Had the apartment been watched on previous days, when the children had slept niormally with no illness, the watcher would likely have formed a fairly accurate time list of comings and goings.

That time list was blown by unexpected trips by Jane and by Jez happening to appear as Gerry was leaving 5A.  They were both out of the vision of The watcher because the balcony was set back about a metre and a half behind a wing of block 6.  This blocked his view of the chat.


This exact scenario may well have happened and this theory shows how it could have been done so easily.

If nothing else, it blows all the nonsensical talk, over the years, about "no-one could have done it in the time" sky high.  An abduction could easily have happened as illustrated by my mini theory.

It also irons out a few of the worries about what happened such as Gerry insisting that his chat with Jez took place on the other side of the road.

I fully accept that this theory might not be what happened, but it ticks all the boxes.
Unless someone can come up with something that disproves it, it should rernain om the table IMO


AIMHO

[stephen25000]

Please let me make it clear, i have had no contact with The Mccanns nor SY with this theory.   As far as I know, they know nothing of it. 

It is what it is, merely a theory, but it works.
It would have been flawless as far as i can see, had it not been for that untimely chat by Gerry and Jez.  And, of course, Jane appearing unexpectedly on the scene. 

Russell and Janes daughter was unexpectedly poorly and frequent visits (and stays) were necessary.   Had the apartment been watched on previous days, when the children had slept niormally with no illness, the watcher would likely have formed a fairly accurate time list of comings and goings.

That time list was blown by unexpected trips by Jane and by Jez happening to appear as Gerry was leaving 5A.  They were both out of the vision of The watcher because the balcony was set back about a metre and a half behind a wing of block 6.  This blocked his view of the chat.


This exact scenario may well have happened and this theory shows how it could have been done so easily.

If nothing else, it blows all the nonsensical talk, over the years, about "no-one could have done it in the time" sky high.  An abduction could easily have happened as illustrated by my mini theory.

It also irons out a few of the worries about what happened such as Gerry insisting that his chat with Jez took place on the other side of the road.

I fully accept that this theory might not be what happened, but it ticks all the boxes.
Unless someone can come up with something that disproves it, it should rernain om the table IMO


AIMHO

You have stated, if I recall correctly, that you have met and stood next to the Mccanns, and Gerry Mccann was taller than you expected.

As to proof, can you disprove accidental death or the walking out of the apartment scenario ?

As to this 'watcher', what proof do you have that anyone was watching the mccanns ?

It is pure supposition

I.M.H.O. naturally.

[sadie]

You have stated, if I recall correctly, that you have met and stood next to the Mccanns, and Gerry Mccann was taller than you expected.

As to proof, can you disprove accidental death or the walking out of the apartment scenario ?

As to this 'watcher', what proof do you have that anyone was watching the mccanns ?

It is pure supposition

I.M.H.O. naturally.

So far nobody has given any pointers to either accidental death or walkling out of the apartment happening.   I can understand some people wondering the accidental death thoughts when it was being spreading it around that Keela and Eddie had found evidence of death .  But now that has been conclusively found incorrect, there are absolutely no piointers, no evidence and it is time to give uip on thoughts based upon wrong perceptions

Give me some sound pointers and I will look again



As to the watchers, I cannot believe that you have asked the question.

We have several different people who have come forward to state that they saw a man watching the Mccann apartment.  Tasmin Silence twice saw him, and three other people also saw him.  It is all recorded on youtube video. 

With this ancient computer I cannot access videos atm, but it was the same video as the one where Jane Tanner disagrees with Gerry over the place that he and Jez were chatting .... and she ends up with tears coursing down her face as she recalls that maybe she could have prevented the alleged abduction of Madeleine had she realised what was going on before her eyes.  I think the video  is called "Cutting Edge" video

So give me some sound pointers, and I will look again.

[Robittybob1]

Sadie - you have a great theory but what would happen if the guys doing the work preparing to take Madeleine were surprised themselves by Madeleine making her own way out of the apartment and running between block 4 and 5  then up the alleyway turning toward the Ocean Club once she was on the footpath again.  Would they be prepared for that?

This is the path the tracker dogs traced.

[pathfinder73]

You have no evidence of a watcher. Smithman exists and that is evidence. You have no evidence only make-believe.

[John]

Any scent trail could have been laid down at an earlier time and may not relate to Maddie leaving the apartment
The fact remains that even taking the Portuguese dogs into account the Portuguese police have all but rejected woke and wandered...that has to be highly significant and cannot be ignored

Firstly, Madeleine normally wore shoes so any earlier scent trail would be very weak.  Secondly, had the dogs actually followed an old scent trail then the trail would not have ended outside mini reception.

Inspector Joao Carlos did admittedly state in his final report that it was unlikely that Madeleine left the apartment of her own volition but then he could be completely wrong.

[sadie]

Sadie - you have a great theory but what would happen if the guys doing the work preparing to take Madeleine were surprised themselves by Madeleine making her own way out of the apartment and running between block 4 and 5  then up the alleyway turning toward the Ocean Club once she was on the footpath again.  Would they be prepared for that?

This is the path the tracker dogs traced.

According to my theories:
Rob, the tracker diogs traced back to the little car park opposite the Tapas Reception.  It is my belief that the sweaty smell of the abduction lifter was on the blanket/towel shown to the dogs ... and that persons scent overwhelmed the scent of little Madeleine.  That the dogs followed the scent of the lifter rather than Madeleine.

The lifters scent was probably caused as the lifter left the getaway vehicle (parked on that little car park) to go to 5A rather than the return journey.

But I dont know this, just my thoughts.


You see, apart from that, had the lifter passed Madeleine over the pathway wall*** to Tannerman, the scent of Madeleine + lifter would have temporarily been lost.   Easier to take the route that is pure Lifter than find a "lost" scent.   
***By pathway wall i mean the enclosed pathway, immeditaely in front of Block 5 that all the Tapas group had to take to get to their front doors

I wonder if, having witnessed the dogs beetling off on the route they took along that enclosede pathway, the PJ even botherd to take the dogs onto the other side of the pathway wall at its far end?

AIMO, and i accept tat i could be wrong.

[John]

So far nobody has given any pointers to either accidental death or walkling out of the apartment happening.   I can understand some people wondering the accidental death thoughts when it was being spreading it around that Keela and Eddie had found evidence of death .  But now that has been conclusively found incorrect, there are absolutely no piointers, no evidence and it is time to give uip on thoughts based upon wrong perceptions

Give me some sound pointers and I will look again



As to the watchers, I cannot believe that you have asked the question.

We have several different people who have come forward to state that they saw a man watching the Mccann apartment.  Tasmin Silence twice saw him, and three other people also saw him.  It is all recorded on youtube video. 

With this ancient computer I cannot access videos atm, but it was the same video as the one where Jane Tanner disagrees with Gerry over the place that he and Jez were chatting .... and she ends up with tears coursing down her face as she recalls that maybe she could have prevented the alleged abduction of Madeleine had she realised what was going on before her eyes.  I think the video  is called "Cutting Edge" video

So give me some sound pointers, and I will look again.

Many people go out for a quiet smoke when on holiday Sadie so someone standing outside an apartment staring aimlessly into the night sky is nothing unusual. The cigarette butts found outside the apartments are testament to this happening regularly and does not necessarily indicate something sinister. 

Your theory is indeed interesting but it is simply that, a theory. I haven't seen any evidence which could in any way lend support to it as being more than just that.

As for Jane Tanner's tears.  She sees a man carrying a young girl and 45 minutes later is alerted to Madeleine's disappearance just yards away but chooses not to tell anyone.  Her excuse being that she didn't want to alarm Madeleine's parents, a bit weird don't you think?

[sadie]

Many people go out for a quiet smoke when on holiday Sadie so someone standing outside an apartment staring aimlessly into the night sky is nothing unusual. The cigarette butts found outside the apartments are testament to this happening regularly and does not necessarily indicate something sinister.

Yep, I fully accept what you say, John

But, they also could be one of the main clues as to what happened, with a watcher on that balcony directing operations .... maybe by flicking his lighter on and off .... who knows?

Hidden in plain sight, a smoker using a lighter to signal      Clever!

[John]

Yep, I fully accept what you say, John

But, they also could be one of the main clues as to what happened, with a watcher on that balcony directing operations .... maybe by flicking his lighter on and off .... who knows?

Hidden in plain sight, a smoker using a lighter to signal      Clever!

It's possible certainly but how probable?

[Brietta]

Many people go out for a quiet smoke when on holiday Sadie so someone standing outside an apartment staring aimlessly into the night sky is nothing unusual. The cigarette butts found outside the apartments are testament to this happening regularly and does not necessarily indicate something sinister. 

Your theory is indeed interesting but it is simply that, a theory. I haven't seen any evidence which could in any way lend support to it as being more than just that.

As for Jane Tanner's tears.  She sees a man carrying a young girl and 45 minutes later is alerted to Madeleine's disappearance just yards away but chooses not to tell anyone.  Her excuse being that she didn't want to alarm Madeleine's parents, a bit weird don't you think?

Jane Tanner told others and the police as soon as ... I believe she did not tell Kate and Gerry immediately perhaps in the hope her initial assessment on seeing the man was the correct one and Madeleine would be found before she had to give them more distress.
She did give a reason ... must have been in one or other of the documentaries ... Dispatches or Panorama? 

[Mr Gray]

Firstly, Madeleine normally wore shoes so any earlier scent trail would be very weak.  Secondly, had the dogs actually followed an old scent trail then the trail would not have ended outside mini reception.

Inspector Joao Carlos did admittedly state in his final report that it was unlikely that Madeleine left the apartment of her own volition but then he could be completely wrong.

Again John he said it was highly unlikely not just unlikely...
And again you are relying on dogs...not evidential
You then have to explain why JC was so adamant....what made him so sure