Some speculating - What would you do if your 3-yr-old had a fatal accident while on holiday abroad?

[Lace]

If Madeleine had had an accident in the apartment and was found dead when Gerry looked in on the children.  If as which as been suggested, they had to cover up the accident,   what was stopping the McCann's of going home straight after dinner, saying that they went to bed got up in the night to go to the toilet and looked in on the children to find Madeleine missing from her bed and then  found her dead?

[AnneGuedes]

what was stopping the McCann's of going home straight after dinner, saying that they went to bed got up in the night to go to the toilet and looked in on the children to find Madeleine missing from her bed and then  found her dead?

Rigor mortis.

[Benice]

Rigor mortis.

Not a problem.

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Rigor mortis (Latin: rigor "stiffness", mortis "of death") is one of the recognizable signs of death, caused by chemical changes in the muscles after death, causing the limbs of the corpse to become stiff and difficult to move or manipulate.[1] In humans, it commences after about three to four hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 48 to 60 hours after death.[2]
unquote
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Plenty of room for manouvre there Anne - with the times being approximate.

[Benice]

If Madeleine had had an accident in the apartment and was found dead when Gerry looked in on the children.  If as which as been suggested, they had to cover up the accident,   what was stopping the McCann's of going home straight after dinner, saying that they went to bed got up in the night to go to the toilet and looked in on the children to find Madeleine missing from her bed and then  found her dead?

Quite so.   There are numerous simple 'stories' they could have come up with Lace, instead of one which is on the scale of 'War & Peace' - requiring a cast of thousands - and all with Oscar winning acting skills.    It's just too ludicrous for words.

[AnneGuedes]

Plenty of room for manouvre there Anne - with the times being approximate.

Rigor mortis depends on involving temperature. It's quicker when someone dies and remains outside (12°C)
Before midnight it would start being noticeable.
Besides livor mortis appears between the 2nd and the 4th hour after death.

[Lace]

Rigor mortis depends on involving temperature. It's quicker when someone dies and remains outside (12°C)
Before midnight it would start being noticeable.
Besides livor mortis appears between the 2nd and the 4th hour after death.

So if the McCann's said they found her about 1 o'clock,  then as you say Rigor mortis starts about 2-4 hours after death then,  it would tally with them coming home at about 10ish going to bed and then getting up and finding her.

[stephen25000]

Quite so.   There are numerous simple 'stories' they could have come up with Lace, instead of one which is on the scale of 'War & Peace' - requiring a cast of thousands - and all with Oscar winning acting skills.    It's just too ludicrous for words.

Bearing in mind there is fluck all proof of abduction, yet you ask others to believe in that.

As we know the D.N.A. analysis from the flat was inconclusive, but nothing else has turned up yet.

[Benice]

Rigor mortis depends on involving temperature. It's quicker when someone dies and remains outside (12°C)
Before midnight it would start being noticeable.
Besides livor mortis appears between the 2nd and the 4th hour after death.

None of those times would invalidate Lace's suggestion of a cover story: i.e.

Quote
''If Madeleine had had an accident in the apartment and was found dead when Gerry looked in on the children.  If as which as been suggested, they had to cover up the accident,   what was stopping the McCann's of going home straight after dinner, saying that they went to bed got up in the night to go to the toilet and looked in on the children to find Madeleine missing from her bed and then  found her dead?''

[Benice]

Bearing in mind there is fluck all proof of abduction, yet you ask others to believe in that.

As we know the D.N.A. analysis from the flat was inconclusive, but nothing else has turned up yet.

There's plenty of evidence Stephen, you just choose to ignore it.    Fortunately SY have not - and they are the people who matter - not p/t amateur armchair detectives.

[AnneGuedes]

None of those times would invalidate Lace's suggestion of a cover story: i.e.

Livor mortis is visible, no emergency service would have failed to look for it if the body was cold. So pretending they found her acidentally dead in the middle of the night would have been no cover story but a patent lie.

[stephen25000]

There's plenty of evidence Stephen, you just choose to ignore it.    Fortunately SY have not - and they are the people who matter - not p/t amateur armchair detectives.

Let's try again.

A child in someone's arms is no proof of abduction.

[Lace]

Let's try again.

A child in someone's arms is no proof of abduction.

You are ignoring the other points Stephen.

1.   The man was carrying the child awkwardly.
2.   The child was uncovered on a chilly night,  yet the man was warmly clad.
3.   The Smith's saw a man very similar to Jane Tanner's  again uncovered,  the man warmly clad.
4.   No one has come forward to say that they were that person carrying a child.

[stephen25000]

You are ignoring the other points Stephen.

1.   The man was carrying the child awkwardly.
2.   The child was uncovered on a chilly night,  yet the man was warmly clad.
3.   The Smith's saw a man very similar to Jane Tanner's  again uncovered,  the man warmly clad.
4.   No one has come forward to say that they were that person carrying a child.

Awkwardly ?

In the same way gm carried one of his other children off a plane.

How do you know the man was 'warmly clad' ?

So what was he wearing ?

The Smith sighting and 'tanner'  contradict each other and are in different areas.

Apparently, a lot of people got out of PDL and didn't want to get involved, but that doesn't make them abductors.

Then we come to the rather large reward on offer and not one taker, now why is that ?

[Lace]

Awkwardly ?

In the same way gm carried one of his other children off a plane.

How do you know the man was 'warmly clad' ?

So what was he wearing ?

The Smith sighting and 'tanner'  contradict each other and are in different areas.

Apparently, a lot of people got out of PDL and didn't want to get involved, but that doesn't make them abductors.

Then we come to the rather large reward on offer and not one taker, now why is that ?

The man Jane Tanner saw carried the child in out stretched arms,  now why carry a child like that?
Both men were wearing a jacket.
Well if the man was holidaying there,  someone would recognise who they were surely!!   especially if this person had picked their child up from the creche.
The reward was for the person who led them to Madeleine Stephen.
Unfortunately Madeleine was said to be dead by Amaral and so a lot of sightings were probably not reported.

[faithlilly]

If Madeleine had had an accident in the apartment and was found dead when Gerry looked in on the children.  If as which as been suggested, they had to cover up the accident,   what was stopping the McCann's of going home straight after dinner, saying that they went to bed got up in the night to go to the toilet and looked in on the children to find Madeleine missing from her bed and then  found her dead?

The Smith sighting ?