What did Kate McCann really see in the Children's Bedroom

[sadie]

I have looked at the Children's bedroom photo many times, but today I noticed something else.  Kate has always maintained that everything was quiet in the apartment when she returned at 10pm, she listened at the Children's bedroom door and all seemed fine.  But then she noticed the door was slightly more open than how they'd left it, which indicates to me that the Children wasn't checked at all that night.  So Kate opens the door slightly and see's the Twins sleeping.

One of the cots is blue and has a mesh type fabric covering all sides, the other cot is brown and has the same type of mesh fabric, but it only covers the side panels on the cot, the head and foot panels are covered in brown fabric that you can't see through.

Kate pops her head round the door and see's two sleeping babies in their cots, she wouldn't of had a problem seeing the baby in the blue cot, but seeing the baby in the brown cot would have been impossible unless she was about eight feet tall.

So Kate McCann has seen the two babies in their cots without entering the room and in the dark. 

Well I done my own experiment,  I put a large box on my bed and the further I stepped away the less I saw what was inside and further more, if a Child was going to be abducted that night surely they would have taken the Child that was out of view and not the one that was in plain sight, thus giving them more time to make their getaway.  I suspect Amelia was sleeping in the brown cot.

Just an observation

 

And that, Robin, is exactly what they did.  They took the child who was out of view from the doorway = Madeleine. 

Remember, Madeleine was the hidden in plain sight child, not Amalie, nor Sean.


BTW, I like your reasons for thinking that Sean was in the blue bed and Amelie was in the brownish bed.  I hadn't thought of that. 
Your reasons may be right, but not necessarily so.

[Robin Banks]

1)  What do you mean by this [first] sentence ? ... but it is Wrong anyway

2) I cant think how you can believe this?  You are so obviously Wrong !

For Kate to have seen the brown cot, the door would have to be wide open, the brown cot would be the last object to be seen. 

The best thing I suggest is stand behind a closed door and open it slightly, what do you see?  Then open it a little more, what do you see?  You will see more of the room.  Open the door fully and you see the whole picture.   For Kate to have seen the brown cot the door would have to be wide open.

Please don't tell me that I am wrong in what I say, I've proved it. 

Gerry McCann didn't have a problem seeing Maddie sleeping in her bed that night, so why couldn't Kate?

[Robin Banks]

1)  You are assuming that despite several people moving around that room, searching and checking windows shutters etc., then removing the twins to take elsewhere with their bedclothes, that nothing got moved?  That is a big assumption and may, or may not, be correct

2)   The Twins cots have very low sides.  The bed is a cheapish bed and low as can be seen on various photos.  The bed only comes up to the upper end of the second drawer of the chest, and the twins travel cots only come up to the lower edge of the upper drawer  ... so maybe 4"-5" higher than the low bed?

3)  The photograph is taken from a low level.  You can see the door knob.

4)   All these facts show that the travel cots had very low sides.  Kate is tall and IMO would have no problem seeing the twins in these travel cots from the doorway.  Especially so as the only one with a blanked end was quite close to her



IMO, Kate could see straight into these travel cots from the doorway.  One big step into the room and she could have seen madeleine, had she been there.

Yep, Robin, the room was fairly dark inside but with the shutters up, a small amount of light would have been coming in via the window, and some light would have been beaming in onto the brown cot especially from the lamp that was left on in the sitting room.  Madeleine, around the corner, would not have benefitted so much from the light from the sitting room

The photo was taken inside the bedroom, Kate was outside of the bedroom.

[sadie]

For Kate to have seen the brown cot, the door would have to be wide open, the brown cot would be the last object to be seen. 

The best thing I suggest is stand behind a closed door and open it slightly, what do you see?  Then open it a little more, what do you see?  You will see more of the room.  Open the door fully and you see the whole picture.   For Kate to have seen the brown cot the door would have to be wide open.

Please don't tell me that I am wrong in what I say, I've proved it. 

Gerry McCann didn't have a problem seeing Maddie sleeping in her bed that night, so why couldn't Kate?

Robin, please study the photos and plans more carefully.

There is a blank wall to the left as the door is opened.  This virtually completely blanks off the view of Madeleines bed, just the bottom corner can be seen.  Madeleine would have been completely out of sight until Kate stepped in and saw around that wall. 

This wall is also the reason why Matt didn't see Madeleine when he checked.  He didn't step into the room and she was out of sight, behind that wall, if she was there, of course.

Until someone stepped far enough into the room she was out of sight, so the last to be seen.  Hidden in Plain Sight, as you say

[sadie]

For Kate to have seen the brown cot, the door would have to be wide open, the brown cot would be the last object to be seen. 

The best thing I suggest is stand behind a closed door and open it slightly, what do you see?  Then open it a little more, what do you see?  You will see more of the room.  Open the door fully and you see the whole picture.   For Kate to have seen the brown cot the door would have to be wide open.

Please don't tell me that I am wrong in what I say, I've proved it. 

Gerry McCann didn't have a problem seeing Maddie sleeping in her bed that night, so why couldn't Kate?

You are wrong because you forgot the Wall that hid Madeleine from sight.

Gerry went into the bedroom and that is why he could see Madeleine.

MKadeleine would be the LAST little one to be seen by anyone entering via the door NOT the FIRST.


Soz Robin, but you need to mug up on the room itself via plans and videos etc. so that you become aware of THAT wall !

[pathfinder73]

As soon as she opened the slamming door her eyes will see Madeleine's bed first before the cots. Her demonstration on youtube proves it. Not checking before closing the door is a red flag.

[Robin Banks]

You are wrong because you forgot the Wall that hid Madeleine from sight.

Gerry went into the bedroom and that is why he could see Madeleine.

MKadeleine would be the LAST little one to be seen by anyone entering via the door NOT the FIRST.


Soz Robin, but you need to mug up on the room itself via plans and videos etc. so that you become aware of THAT wall !

I am aware of the wall thanks, but the hidden child would be the child in the brown cot.  After the door slams she opens the door slightly and see's the twins in their respected cots, the door would have to be fully open to see the brown cot.  How did Kate see the Twins, the room was dark.  The blue cot was further from Kate than Maddie's bed, it wasn't until the curtains flew open that she could see Maddie's empty bed.     



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw

[slartibartfast]

Robin, please study the photos and plans more carefully.

There is a blank wall to the left as the door is opened.  This virtually completely blanks off the view of Madeleines bed, just the bottom corner can be seen.  Madeleine would have been completely out of sight until Kate stepped in and saw around that wall. 

This wall is also the reason why Matt didn't see Madeleine when he checked.  He didn't step into the room and she was out of sight, behind that wall, if she was there, of course.

Until someone stepped far enough into the room she was out of sight, so the last to be seen.  Hidden in Plain Sight, as you say

Please provide a cite for the blank wall.

[Robin Banks]

Kate tells a very different story to Oprah Winfrey,  16 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNI5up44Nho

[Brietta]

I am aware of the wall thanks, but the hidden child would be the child in the brown cot.  After the door slams she opens the door slightly and see's the twins in their respected cots, the door would have to be fully open to see the brown cot.  How did Kate see the Twins, the room was dark.  The blue cot was further from Kate than Maddie's bed, it wasn't until the curtains flew open that she could see Maddie's empty bed.     



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw

What makes you certain that the position of the cots in the photograph is exactly as they were before Madeleine's disappearance was discovered?

[Brietta]

Please provide a cite for the blank wall.

In my opinion the blank wall to which Sadie refers is the one beside the bed occupied by Madeleine.  As can be seen from the photograph where a small area at the foot of the bed is visible ~ a person sleeping in a bed in that position could not be seen from outside the room.
The room had to be entered or at least the head had to be inserted well into the room past the door jamb to enable a sight of the individual in the bed.

[Robin Banks]

What makes you certain that the position of the cots in the photograph is exactly as they were before Madeleine's disappearance was discovered?

A little Girl has gone missing, why would anyone arrange the room differently?  and for what reason?

Lets try and move the cots around, it's quite easy to do this as there is only one other way the cots will fit and that's parallel with Maddie's bed and the bed under the window, so all beds are lined up next to each other.  This is a really silly idea as Maddie would have difficulty getting into her bed and Kate would have difficulty putting the Twins in their respected cots, plus the chest of drawers would have become unusable. 

Unless the whole room was rearranged. 

 

[Angelo222]

How did she see the Twins before seeing Maddie's empty bed if the room was in darkness?

If the shutter was up the room wouldn't have been in complete darkness.

[Angelo222]

I wouldn't be surprised if by that stage she had not turned on the lights and actually bodily entered the children's bedroom.

She has never admitted turning on the bedroom light.  It was all very strange that the door chose to slam at that point and was not closed already when she entered the apartment.  The very act of opening the patio door would have caused a through draft which should have closed the door.

[Brietta]

A little Girl has gone missing, why would anyone arrange the room differently?  and for what reason?

Lets try and move the cots around, it's quite easy to do this as there is only one other way the cots will fit and that's parallel with Maddie's bed and the bed under the window, so all beds are lined up next to each other.  This is a really silly idea as Maddie would have difficulty getting into her bed and Kate would have difficulty putting the Twins in their respected cots, plus the chest of drawers would have become unusable. 

Unless the whole room was rearranged. 

 

Perhaps you missed Sadie's post in which she states ...
Snip
1)  You are assuming that despite several people moving around that room, searching and checking windows shutters etc., then removing the twins to take elsewhere with their bedclothes, that nothing got moved?  That is a big assumption and may, or may not, be correct
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9504.msg461564#msg461564

Please let's not try and move anything around as you suggest.  Hypothetical situations when we have witness statements and photographs from the scene are just not appropriate.

I cannot state with any certainty whether or not the children's cots were moved.

Similarly you cannot state with any certainty that they remained in situ during the search or to allow access to the window or to allow a clearer view of Madeleine's bed. Didn't someone say they had looked under the beds?

I'm actually not quite following the thrust of your argument anyway ... perhaps it will become clearer as discussion continues.