Jeremy Corbyn for PM!!

[Miss Taken Identity]

‘Paul Iganski states that parallels between Israeli policy and those of the Nazis are "arguably not intrinsically [ censored word]emitic", and that the context in which they are made is critical’

https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/arts-and-social-sciences/about-us/people/paul-iganski

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Definition_of_[ censored word]emitism

...and many tens of thousands who do not support Corbyn, agree with Paul. I know from independent reporters many Jews living in Israel feel the settlers issue is  a major problem. But alas, all religious fractions have their fundamentalist and Israel is not without theirs.  I do not believe for one minute the JC hates jews, or anyone sharing his view with what is going on in the middle east!  Having said that; interloper Arabs hell bent on trouble are not making the situation any easier. I have heard disturbing reports about Arab Israelite being singled out by the ruling fractions in Palestine for abuse.

[Venturi Swirl]

‘Paul Iganski states that parallels between Israeli policy and those of the Nazis are "arguably not intrinsically [ censored word]emitic", and that the context in which they are made is critical’

https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/arts-and-social-sciences/about-us/people/paul-iganski

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Definition_of_[ censored word]emitism

Hmm...
“It may well be that arguments about whether Nazi comparisons are [ censored word]emitic can seem sterile and repetitive, but to abandon that discussion as if it simply doesn't matter is perverse. It's tantamount to an admission that the term "[ censored word]emitism" has been rendered useless. In fact, Iganski and Sweiry don't abandon the term at all. Instead, to support their argument, they urge on all and sundry the adoption of the so-called "Working Definition of [ censored word]emitism" produced by the former European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC), now recast as the Federal Rights Agency (FRA). I write "so-called" because the definition is rapidly becoming the new orthodoxy”.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jul/24/israel-nazi-analogies-ban

Perhaps you should not over-rely on snippets taken out of context from Wikipedia and read around a bit,  as his views are a little more nuanced than you are attempting to make out.

[faithlilly]

Hmm...
“It may well be that arguments about whether Nazi comparisons are [ censored word]emitic can seem sterile and repetitive, but to abandon that discussion as if it simply doesn't matter is perverse. It's tantamount to an admission that the term "[ censored word]emitism" has been rendered useless. In fact, Iganski and Sweiry don't abandon the term at all. Instead, to support their argument, they urge on all and sundry the adoption of the so-called "Working Definition of [ censored word]emitism" produced by the former European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC), now recast as the Federal Rights Agency (FRA). I write "so-called" because the definition is rapidly becoming the new orthodoxy”.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jul/24/israel-nazi-analogies-ban

Perhaps you should not over-rely on snippets taken out of context from Wikipedia and read around a bit,  as his views are a little more nuanced than you are attempting to make out.

This snippet from your article particularly interested me.

‘".The authors write: "although the playing of the Nazi card is not always [ censored word]emitic, it unquestionably always harms" ( the author of the article disputes Iganski and Sweiry’s use of the word harm )

[Venturi Swirl]

This snippet from your article particularly interested me.

‘".The authors write: "although the playing of the Nazi card is not always [ censored word]emitic, it unquestionably always harms" ( the author of the article disputes Iganski and Sweiry’s use of the word harm )

And your point is?

[Venturi Swirl]

Saddiq Khan in today’s Times, speaking sense, IMO. 
Should Corbyn have accepted more of the blame? “What Jeremy and those around him should have the humility to recognise is [they] let Corbyn be Corbyn, and we got pasted,” he says.

Khan believes Labour needs deeper change than at the top. “It’s not just about changing the lead singer, it’s the whole band,” he says. “The music was wrong.”

He reels off reasons Labour lost. “I probably knocked on more doors than any candidate, and people didn’t have confidence in the party and our values,” he says. “They thought we were making promises just to win votes. And they thought we were a racist party because of our failure to tackle anti-semitism.”

It is the last part that pains Khan most. A Muslim, his first act as mayor was to attend a Holocaust memorial.

“We’re Labour, a party that’s about anti-racism,” he says. “For the leadership not to understand the impact of us being seen to condone anti-semitism is heartbreaking. We’ve demonstrated a breathtaking lack of emotional intelligence — or humanity.”

He has Jewish friends who did not vote for Labour because they felt it was racist. “And you know what? If a dog barks, and a duck quacks . . .” He tails off and does not finish the analogy, but adds: “It’s a disqualification to be Labour leader if you don’t understand it and don’t have a clear plan to address it.”

Does that mean throwing people out? “You’ve got to. If someone takes us to court, so be it. The ease with which Alastair Campbell was chucked out for talking about voting for another party, and yet you have anti-semites still in, beggars belief.”

He is tired of the “what-aboutery” deployed to defend Labour. “Sure, the Tories may be Islamophobic,” he says. “That doesn’t concern me. The standards I expect from Labour are higher than other parties.”

He points to the case of the former Labour mayor, Ken Livingstone. “He said things that were clearly anti-semitic,” Khan says. “He remained a Labour member for two years until he quit. He wasn’t kicked out.”

Unless anti-semitism and racism are dealt with at their roots, they become “normalised”, he adds. “It is toxic. I met decent people who said, ‘It’s a bit smelly, this anti-semitism stuff,’ and they didn’t vote for us.”

[faithlilly]

And your point is?

My Iganski quote ‘ parallels between Israeli policy and those of the Nazis are arguably not intrinsically [ censored word]emitic ‘

Iganski quote from your link ‘although the playing of the Nazi card is not always [ censored word]emitic’.

See my point now ?

[Venturi Swirl]

My Iganski quote ‘ parallels between Israeli policy and those of the Nazis are arguably not intrinsically [ censored word]emitic ‘

Iganski quote from your link ‘although the playing of the Nazi card is not always [ censored word]emitic’.

See my point now ?

You did read that he fully endorsed the Working Definition of [ censored word]emitism, the one signed up to by Jeremy Corbyn, the one which states that it is anti semitic to make the comparison didn’t you?  In any case so what?  One man, one viewpoint, versus numerous countries and organisations including the Labour Party that agree: comparing Israel with Nazis = [ censored word]emitic.  I believe Iganski thinks those who do so should face criminal charges, so...

[faithlilly]

Saddiq Khan in today’s Times, speaking sense, IMO. 
Should Corbyn have accepted more of the blame? “What Jeremy and those around him should have the humility to recognise is [they] let Corbyn be Corbyn, and we got pasted,” he says.

Khan believes Labour needs deeper change than at the top. “It’s not just about changing the lead singer, it’s the whole band,” he says. “The music was wrong.”

He reels off reasons Labour lost. “I probably knocked on more doors than any candidate, and people didn’t have confidence in the party and our values,” he says. “They thought we were making promises just to win votes. And they thought we were a racist party because of our failure to tackle anti-semitism.”

It is the last part that pains Khan most. A Muslim, his first act as mayor was to attend a Holocaust memorial.

“We’re Labour, a party that’s about anti-racism,” he says. “For the leadership not to understand the impact of us being seen to condone anti-semitism is heartbreaking. We’ve demonstrated a breathtaking lack of emotional intelligence — or humanity.”

He has Jewish friends who did not vote for Labour because they felt it was racist. “And you know what? If a dog barks, and a duck quacks . . .” He tails off and does not finish the analogy, but adds: “It’s a disqualification to be Labour leader if you don’t understand it and don’t have a clear plan to address it.”

Does that mean throwing people out? “You’ve got to. If someone takes us to court, so be it. The ease with which Alastair Campbell was chucked out for talking about voting for another party, and yet you have anti-semites still in, beggars belief.”

He is tired of the “what-aboutery” deployed to defend Labour. “Sure, the Tories may be Islamophobic,” he says. “That doesn’t concern me. The standards I expect from Labour are higher than other parties.”

He points to the case of the former Labour mayor, Ken Livingstone. “He said things that were clearly anti-semitic,” Khan says. “He remained a Labour member for two years until he quit. He wasn’t kicked out.”

Unless anti-semitism and racism are dealt with at their roots, they become “normalised”, he adds. “It is toxic. I met decent people who said, ‘It’s a bit smelly, this anti-semitism stuff,’ and they didn’t vote for us.”

So a racist culture encouraged by the Corbyn leadership contributed to Labour losing the election it’s claimed. Although I have yet to see one racist remark attributed to Corbyn it is common knowledge that Johnson himself has used racist language and Baroness Warsi has called her own party institutionally Islamophobic. During the election campaign there was even calls for three Conservative MPs to be investigated for anti-Semitic statements....at least two of the three are still MPs and have faced no sanctions....so why do you think that racism claims played a part in the downfall of Labour but saw an increase in votes for the Conservatives ?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/tories-investigate-three-candidates-over-alleged-[ censored word]emitism

And on the topic of [ censored word]emitism, what do you think about the claims against Bernie Sanders ?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bernie-sanders-campaign-has-an-anti-semitism-problem

[Venturi Swirl]

So a racist culture encouraged by the Corbyn leadership contributed to Labour losing the election it’s claimed. Although I have yet to see one racist remark attributed to Corbyn it is common knowledge that Johnson himself has used racist language and Baroness Warsi has called her own party institutionally Islamophobic. During the election campaign there was even calls for three Conservative MPs to be investigated for anti-Semitic statements....at least two of the three are still MPs and have faced no sanctions....so why do you think that racism claims played a part in the downfall of Labour but saw an increase in votes for the Conservatives ?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/07/tories-investigate-three-candidates-over-alleged-[ censored word]emitism

And on the topic of [ censored word]emitism, what do you think about the claims against Bernie Sanders ?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bernie-sanders-campaign-has-an-anti-semitism-problem

Like Khan says
“He is tired of the “what-aboutery” deployed to defend Labour. “Sure, the Tories may be Islamophobic,” he says. “That doesn’t concern me. The standards I expect from Labour are higher than other parties.”

He points to the case of the former Labour mayor, Ken Livingstone. “He said things that were clearly anti-semitic,” Khan says. “He remained a Labour member for two years until he quit. He wasn’t kicked out.”

Unless anti-semitism and racism are dealt with at their roots, they become “normalised”, he adds. “It is toxic. I met decent people who said, ‘It’s a bit smelly, this anti-semitism stuff,’ and they didn’t vote for us.”

I have no views on Bernie Sanders as I know very little about the man or the views he holds, and this thread is about Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party, and their failure to provide effective opposition to a Tory government, one that we will have to put up with for at least another 5 years, probably 10.  Thanks Jeremy andd all his devoted supporters (you included) - you need to own this, not be cry babies blaming everyone else. 

[Holly Goodhead]

Oooo I'm currently in bed with Keir Starmer!  He's on AM show and I'm watching in bed! 

[Venturi Swirl]

Oooo I'm currently in bed with Keir Starmer!  He's on AM show and I'm watching in bed!

Ooh matron, he can slip up my back alley any time.   

[Holly Goodhead]

Ooh matron, he can slip up my back alley any time.   

Yes he's quite delectable, electable too! 

[Venturi Swirl]

Yes he's quite delectable, electable too!

No, I was only kidding, just attempting to connect with you by talking your language.  I don’t really fancy him, but I agree that out of a bad bunch he is probably the most presentable.  Zero charisma IMO though. 

[faithlilly]

Like Khan says
“He is tired of the “what-aboutery” deployed to defend Labour. “Sure, the Tories may be Islamophobic,” he says. “That doesn’t concern me. The standards I expect from Labour are higher than other parties.”

He points to the case of the former Labour mayor, Ken Livingstone. “He said things that were clearly anti-semitic,” Khan says. “He remained a Labour member for two years until he quit. He wasn’t kicked out.”

Unless anti-semitism and racism are dealt with at their roots, they become “normalised”, he adds. “It is toxic. I met decent people who said, ‘It’s a bit smelly, this anti-semitism stuff,’ and they didn’t vote for us.”

I have no views on Bernie Sanders as I know very little about the man or the views he holds, and this thread is about Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party, and their failure to provide effective opposition to a Tory government, one that we will have to put up with for at least another 5 years, probably 10.  Thanks Jeremy andd all his devoted supporters (you included) - you need to own this, not be cry babies blaming everyone else.

Then let me fill you in on Sanders. He is a Jewish democrat who is being accused by the right-wing Israel lobby of being anti-Semitic because of his stance on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Of course the smears are ridiculous, and nonsensical, but yet again we are seeing anti-semitism being weaponised to stop a left wing candidate being elected, as it has with Corbyn and Miliband ( also Jewish ) before him.

As I have already said it would be ridiculous in a party of half a million members to claim that there is no [ censored word]emitism, or racism of any kind, we know the Conservatives have grave problems in this area , and we know too that both parties have questions to answer about their structures to deal with such incidences but let us be in no doubt that while Johnson was given an almost free pass on this issue Corbyn was held to a greater standard and you’d have to be absolutely stupid to suppose that, if [ censored word]emitism was the important issue in the election  Khan claims it was, that that didn’t amount to an unacceptable bias by both the print and news media. It is hardly a coincidence that the only Labour government who has achieved power in the last 40 years has been backed by Murdoch.

[Venturi Swirl]

Then let me fill you in on Sanders. He is a Jewish democrat who is being accused by the right-wing Israel lobby of being anti-Semitic because of his stance on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Of course the smears are ridiculous, and nonsensical, but yet again we are seeing anti-semitism being weaponised to stop a left wing candidate being elected, as it has with Corbyn and Miliband ( also Jewish ) before him.

As I have already said it would be ridiculous in a party of half a million members to claim that there is no [ censored word]emitism, or racism of any kind, we know the Conservatives have grave problems in this area , and we know too that both parties have questions to answer about their structures to deal with such incidences but let us be in no doubt that while Johnson was given an almost free pass on this issue Corbyn was held to a greater standard and you’d have to be absolutely stupid to suppose that, if [ censored word]emitism was the important issue in the election  Khan claims it was, that that didn’t amount to an unacceptable bias by both the print and news media. It is hardly a coincidence that the only Labour government who has achieved power in the last 40 years has been backed by Murdoch.

You do know that Murdoch and his media organisation has been accused of [ censored word]emitism too don’t you?   What do you think Siddiq’s game is then?  Is he a bare-faced liar in the pay of the Jews then?