Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 844203 times)

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Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2010 on: August 11, 2015, 12:44:33 AM »
CONVENIENTLY,

Everyone keeps forgetting that Eddie was first trained to respond to living human odours and later to respond to Cadavar odours.  It has been thoroughly explained that training once given cannot be detrained.


Eddie was the wrong dog for the tasks, cos he alerted to living human odour as well as the smell of death.


No way of telling if he is responding to living scents or death scents.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2011 on: August 11, 2015, 12:50:34 AM »
CONVENIENTLY,
Everyone keeps forgetting that Eddie was first trained to respond to living human odours and later to respond to Cadavar odours.  It has been thoroughly explained that training once given cannot be detrained.


Eddie was the wrong dog for the tasks, cos he alerted to living human odour as well as the smell of death.


No way of telling if he is responding to living scents or death scents.

VICTIM RECOVERY DOGS

Search Asset Profile

Victim recovery dogs (VRDs) are also known as body or cadaver dogs. They are used in many countries to assist the police in locating concealed human remains. In the UK, police dogs are used that are trained and licensed to a national standard.

Pig carcasses are used to train the dogs in the UK as it is not legal to use human cadavers. This is an established training method and enables the dogs to successfully detect human remains in operational case work.

Enhanced training to produce a EVRD.

The training of a VRD provides an alert response using Ivan Pavlov's theory of producing a conditioned reflex, in this case barking, to the presence of detected decomposing human/pig flesh, bone, body fluid and blood. The dog will bark, whether or not it is able to get to the source of the scent. The benefit of this reflex is that the dog will respond whenever the target scent is present.
This enables the dog to be used in an investigative role, assisting experts in other fields, such as, geophysics.

An EVRD dog received additional training on human cadavers which were buried on land and submerged underwater. This took place in America and facilitated by the FBI at the University of Tennessee.

The scent detection threshold of the dog is greatly enhanced. In operational deployment and in training, the dog is successful in detecting human remains, body fluids and blood, to cellular levels that can be recovered by low copy
analysis at forensic laboratories.

The proven capability of the EVRD is to :

Search to locate very small samples of human remains, body fluids and blood in any environment or terrain.

Identify sub-surface depositions to a depth of approximately one metre below the surface of the ground, depending on the scent permeability of the ground.
This depth is increased substantially when the ground is 'vented' prior to deployment.
Page 2232

Locate and give an alert to cross contamination by a cadaver. This is particularly valuable when the dog is used to assist in searches where the discovery of a body has prompted the investigation. The dog may locate secondary deposition sites and any areas of contamination, e.g., items of vehicles used to transport the body.

The generation, storage and migration of natural gases and body scent.

Gases from decomposing human remains may be dissolved in groundwater depending on the pressure, temperature or concentration of other gases or minerals in water. Dissolved gases may be advected by groundwater, and only when the pressure is reduced and the solubility limit of the gas in groundwater exceeded, do they come out of solution and form a separate gaseous phase.

'Scent', (cocktail mixtures of gases), from organic decaying remains can move through bedrock by diffusion, which is relatively slow, but if the bedrock is fractured, (eg, by bedding planes, joints and faults), the diffusion rate is increased. Gas and scent from organic decaying remains also migrate through rocks via intergranular permeability or, more particularly, along discontinuities. The hydrostatic head imposed by groundwater flows may also influence gas/organic scent emissions.

Determination of the migration pathway of gas/body scent depends on the geological, geomorphological and hydrogeological conditions and an understanding of the victim deposition site. Factors such as the surface and
groundwater flow paths, drainage, topography, runoff, precipitation rates, permeability of the soil and bedrock and hydrogeological domains, location of seeps and springs need to be determined if gases/human remains migration
pathways are to be determined.

The age of the source does not affect the process of scent movement but it will effect the concentration, as will the rate of decomposition. Body scent may be transported by 'leachate plumes' to emerge at the ground surface.

Page 2233

Figure 61 : Schematic illustration to show the influence of groundwater flows and the migration of body scent, which may be carried away from the grave site, as a lecahate plume, to emerge on the flanks.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2012 on: August 11, 2015, 12:51:16 AM »
CONVENIENTLY,
Everyone keeps forgetting that Eddie was first trained to respond to living human odours and later to respond to Cadavar odours.  It has been thoroughly explained that training once given cannot be detrained.


Eddie was the wrong dog for the tasks, cos he alerted to living human odour as well as the smell of death.


No way of telling if he is responding to living scents or death scents.


R.U.B.B.I.S.H.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 12:53:19 AM by mercury »

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2013 on: August 11, 2015, 01:02:33 AM »
what did that clothing come into contact with then for the dog to alert then?
The subject of contact is more complicated than it appears so I don't know.
My main point is that the trousers were for that entire evening not being worn.
Therefore the accusation against the person who owns them is illogical and unjust.


Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2014 on: August 11, 2015, 01:07:33 AM »
The subject of contact is more complicated than it appears so I don't know.
My main point is that the trousers were for that entire evening not being worn.
Therefore the accusation against the person who owns them is illogical and unjust.

But no one has accused the wearer of those trousers of anything


Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2015 on: August 11, 2015, 01:16:52 AM »

R.U.B.B.I.S.H.

To remind you, and explain it a little more carefully cos it seems you weren't able to understand

http://csst.org/forensic_evidence_canines.html


We call Eddie a Cadavar dog but in actual fact he is a Forensic Search Dog.

However, originally he was trained as a search dog for living humans so he would have been trained as a Decomp Dog  A term used to describe a canine that will indicate when a scent source is living human tissue, blood, semen, urine, feces, and materials that have been handled and worn by humans.



A dog can never be detrained to forget what he has earlier been trained so he is likely to alert to living human tissue, blood, semen, urine , feces and materials that have been handled and worn by humans as well as scents sourced from decomposing human tissue.


What a brilliant nose he has, but it seems that he is flawed because he may alert to living as well as decomposing bodies etc.  It clearly states in the Forensic Search Dog. section that a FSD should never have been crosstrained.

Eddie was.



Forensic Search Dog (The primary focus of this paper)
A canine that has been specifically trained to indicate a scent source as being from decomposed human tissue. Such animals are also trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, feces, and semen and will not alert on residual scent from a live human; and have never been trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.


Hope this helps.  Eddie the dog that we call a Cadavar Dog is actually Forensic Search Dog and a Decomp Dog.

Because of this he might alert to living matter, such as blood, urine, feces semen etc from a living person as well as Decomposed matter from a dead person



Sorry, but because of his cross training it seems that this brilliant dog, Eddie, wasn't up to the task in hand.



He was also trained on dead pigs, so it is likely that he would alert to dead pig, I think.



Hope you can finally understand now

Nigh Night mercury.  Nigh night all

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2016 on: August 11, 2015, 01:20:13 AM »
T.O.T.A.L.   A..N.A.D.U.L.T.E.R.A.T. E.D    R. U.B.B.I.S.H
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 01:32:39 AM by mercury »

Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2017 on: August 11, 2015, 01:45:32 AM »
T.O.T.A.L.   A..N.A.D.U.L.T.E.R.A.T. E.D    R. U.B.B.I.S.H

Still got your charm, I see.

Cant you read and comprehend?

Use the webpage if you prefer

http://csst.org/forensic_evidence_canines.html



Nigh night mercury

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2018 on: August 11, 2015, 01:53:03 AM »
Cite for Eddie being a dog trained to find living humans? and matter from them NOT being anywhere else apart from 5 a , yes, ok
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 02:01:47 AM by mercury »

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2019 on: August 11, 2015, 02:42:57 AM »


And why did Harrison give no clue at all who took part in the inspection of vehciles?

Harrison was AT THE INSPECTION OF THE VEHICLES, why are you trying to rewrite history??? Sheesh, one might almost thnk you had some agenda!!
Did Harrison write a report AFTER all the searches and didnt give you a clue who was there and who did what??
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 02:52:01 AM by mercury »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2020 on: August 11, 2015, 09:36:58 AM »
Harrison was AT THE INSPECTION OF THE VEHICLES, why are you trying to rewrite history??? Sheesh, one might almost thnk you had some agenda!!
Did Harrison write a report AFTER all the searches and didnt give you a clue who was there and who did what??

Harrison acknowledged the involvement of Grime and his dogs in those searches he recommended: the places Madeleine either had been or (please God not!) might have been.

There was literally no function or purpose that served the enquiry in searches in the other places.

That's why Harrison turned his back on them.


Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2021 on: August 11, 2015, 10:55:48 AM »
Harrison acknowledged the involvement of Grime and his dogs in those searches he recommended: the places Madeleine either had been or (please God not!) might have been.

There was literally no function or purpose that served the enquiry in searches in the other places.

That's why Harrison turned his back on them.

Harrison was involved with these dogs years before the McCann case. He knew them very well.

Her handler, PC Martin Grime, has been responsible for training Keela, along with National Search Adviser Mark Harrison, since June last year. Friday 30 December 2005

http://news.sky.com/story/395084/keelas-nose-makes-her-top-dog
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2022 on: August 11, 2015, 11:10:03 AM »
Harrison was involved with these dogs years before the McCann case. He knew them very well.

Her handler, PC Martin Grime, has been responsible for training Keela, along with National Search Adviser Mark Harrison, since June last year. Friday 30 December 2005

http://news.sky.com/story/395084/keelas-nose-makes-her-top-dog

The dogs’ handler has submitted a separate report regarding the performance of the dogs (see appendix 4). However, it must be stated any such indications without any physical evidence to support them can not have any evidential value, being unconfirmed indications. Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2023 on: August 11, 2015, 11:15:52 AM »
The dogs’ handler has submitted a separate report regarding the performance of the dogs (see appendix 4). However, it must be stated any such indications without any physical evidence to support them can not have any evidential value, being unconfirmed indications. Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!

That is common sense but it's not the be all and end all in a circumstantial evidence case.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2024 on: August 11, 2015, 11:25:23 AM »
That is common sense but it's not the be all and end all in a circumstantial evidence case.

There is no circumstantial evidence (at least against the McCanns) -- still less, hard evidence.

All we have are two dogs incompetently deployed and solid evidence placing Gerry in the Tapas restaurant at the time of Kate's alert and the Smith sighting.

That's why the judge at the libel trial against Amaral commented that the McCanns are innocent -- also (part of the reason) why the McCanns won the libel trial  ....