Amaral and the dogs

[Carana]

You are always fair to everyone, something for which I 90% admire you.

I'll leave the 10% reservation to one side for now ....

LOL

Seriously, I really do find numerous factors in common in both of these high-profile investigations...

[ferryman]

Not sure what you're looking for.




5.6.20 X (ORAU) reported that the Jersey sample only had 0.6 % N. Ordinarily this is too low to yield extractable collagen of any quality. Despite our concerns, X requested that a fuller chemical treatment be undertaken, in an attempt to produce a result, but although some material was extracted it was demonstrably not collagenous based on the analysis of the texture of the material, the C:N atomic ratios and the similarly significant lack of nitrogen, so the sample was formally failed and the States of Jersey Police notified.

5.6.21 A further analysis of the bone sample later the following week by
X and X (British Museum faunal specialist and one of our collaborators in work undertaken in the ORAU) concluded that the sample was not in fact bone, but was almost certainly wood.

There were several reports and I'd have to find which one this extract came from.

Part of my 10% reservation is precisely highlighted above.

You begin a post with not sure what you're looking for, then reproduce exactly what I'm looking for ...

 

[Alice Purjorick]

In fairness, from what I've read of numerous reports, there were more factors than just Grime and his dogs in the PdL and Jersey fiascos.

This article sums up numerous points on the Jersey situation, which in some ways is quite similar to the PdL one in terms of various agents, assumptions and the media:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1086018/How-police-chief-Lenny-Harper-lost-plot-Jersey-childrens-home-murders.html#ixzz2nLiavJKv

If you read the 383 page report posted by Brietta, Grime and his dogs don't take up much space. The thrust of the issue seems to be p**s poor media management by two officers.

"Our main concern was the media strategy being used by Mr HARPER because although we knew nothing internally about the case, we were learning everything we knew from SKY news
and other media sources".

Y'all are hot on cross contamination so my worry would be not so much a woofer alerting to a potentially cross contaminated piece of wood (it does not appear to have been formally identified as a lump of coconut but I guess coconut is more amusing) than a forensic anthropologist saying it was a lump of human bone in the first instance then passing it over for a "spaniel test".

[ferryman]

If you read the 383 page report posted by Brietta, Grime and his dogs don't take up much space. The thrust of the issue seems to be p**s poor media management by two officers.

"Our main concern was the media strategy being used by Mr HARPER because although we knew nothing internally about the case, we were learning everything we knew from SKY news
and other media sources".

Y'all are hot on cross contamination so my worry would be not so much a woofer alerting to a potentially cross contaminated piece of wood (it does not appear to have been formally identified as a lump of coconut but I guess coconut is more amusing) than a forensic anthropologist saying it was a lump of human bone in the first instance then passing it over for a "spaniel test".

The thrust of the issue is that Grime cocked up in leading a wild goose chase for (non-existent) "bodies"

[stephen25000]

The thrust of the issue is that Grime cocked up in leading a wild goose chase for (non-existent) "bodies"

YOU MEAN THE WILD GOOSE CHASE INTO THE ACTIVITIES OF PAEDOPHILES FERRYMAN ?

[ferryman]

Grime and his dogs were looking for bodies.

That's what cadaver dogs do.

Look for bodies.

[Alice Purjorick]

The thrust of the issue is that Grime cocked up in leading a wild goose chase for (non-existent) "bodies"

Either you and I are reading different reports, pal, or your prejudices against Mr Grime have severely impeded your comprehension faculties. Then on the other hand you may feel you are in a superior position to Wiltshire Police who investigated and compiled the report. Their opinion being somewhat at variance with your own and all
 

[stephen25000]

Either you and I are reading different reports, pal, or your prejudices against Mr Grime have severely impeded your comprehension faculties. Then on the other hand you may feel you are in a superior position to Wiltshire Police who investigated and compiled the report. Their opinion being somewhat at variance with your own and all
 

You got it in ONE.

 

[ferryman]

Either you and I are reading different reports, pal, or your prejudices against Mr Grime have severely impeded your comprehension faculties. Then on the other hand you may feel you are in a superior position to Wiltshire Police who investigated and compiled the report. Their opinion being somewhat at variance with your own and all
 

Nope

[pathfinder73]

I'm not sure what the joke is. The "skull" fragment turned out to be wood-based.

And picked up by FM.

1809 - police dog repeatedly alerted to a wood shed.

Cadaver Dogs: Aiding Law Enforcement throughout History

http://www.annmarieackermann.com/tag/andreas-bichel/

[ferryman]

so Grime says....
It is my view that it is possible that the EVRD is alerting to
 'a cadaver scent'  contaminant. No evidential or intelligence reliability can be made from this
 alert unless it can be confirmed with corroborating evidence.

and amaral says..
From then on, we are sure that, at a given moment, there was a body in apartment 5A. We now have to interview firemen, medical services personnel, previous tenants and employees of the Ocean Club to make sure that no death has taken place in this accommodation, which they confirm. So, we can conclude that the odour discovered is certainly that of Madeleine Beth McCann.

Can there be any defence for amaral's outrageous statement...the answer has to be NO

Equally Grime had no business speculating about cadaver scent.

[Anna]

The whole Jersey investigation was a shambles. Jersey was after PDL,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7723860.stm

However, we are discussing whether or not Amaral's thoughts, words and writings on the dogs and their reliability were justified, since there was no corroborating evidence to substantiate the alerts.

[ferryman]

1809 - police dog repeatedly alerted to a wood shed.

Cadaver Dogs: Aiding Law Enforcement throughout History

http://www.annmarieackermann.com/tag/andreas-bichel/

So do you accept that the coconut shell at HdlG was just that, a coconut shell?

[stephen25000]

The whole Jersey investigation was a shambles. Jersey was after PDL,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7723860.stm

However, we are discussing whether or not Amaral's thoughts, words and writings on the dogs and their reliability were justified, since there was no corroborating evidence to substantiate the alerts.

As we all know well, the forensics were inconclusive, neither affirming or dismissing the dogs indications.

Nothing else has come to light in this case.

[stephen25000]

So do you accept that the coconut shell at HdlG was just that, a coconut shell?

and clearly exposed to other 'substances'.