Amaral and the dogs

[Anna]

As we all know well, the forensics were inconclusive, neither affirming or dismissing the dogs indications.

Nothing else has come to light in this case.

Is there a forensic test that can detect, Cadaver scent?

[pathfinder73]

Equally Grime had no business speculating about cadaver scent.

It's not speculating, Eddie gave an alert [potentially associated with] cadaver scent. That's his job and why he goes in first. Keela is only used after Eddie alerts. No blood indicates cadaver scent.



Edited

[ferryman]

Is there a forensic test that can detect, Cadaver scent?

There isn't.

And the dog indications were dismissed.

Not least because of the error with cuddle-cat ....

[stephen25000]

Is there a forensic test that can detect, Cadaver scent?

There are potentially many compounds associated with a body and subsequent decomposition.

[pathfinder73]

So do you accept that the coconut shell at HdlG was just that, a coconut shell?

Wood absorbs fluids, scent a lot of stuff. Coconut my ass.

[pathfinder73]

Not even Grime said that ...

But you'll probably get away with that untruth ...

What was Eddie used for? Read Harrison's report - dogs are used to find evidence of death. Eddie detects death.

"This report considers solely the possibility that Madeleine McCann has been murdered and her body is concealed." (Mark Harrison)

[ferryman]

What was Eddie used for? Read Harrison's report - dogs are used to find evidence of death. Eddie detects death.

I have read all 3 of Harrison's reports closely and attentively from first to last.

You would do well to do the same.

[pathfinder73]

I have read all 3 of Harrison's reports closely and attentively from first to last.

You would do well to do the same.

"This report considers solely the possibility that Madeleine McCann has been murdered and her body is concealed." (Mark Harrison)

What is Eddie used for?

[ferryman]

"This report considers solely the possibility that Madeleine McCann has been murdered and her body is concealed." (Mark Harrison)

What is Eddie used for?

However, it must be stated any such indications without any physical evidence to support them can not have any evidential value, being unconfirmed indications. Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.

Mark Harrison.

[Carana]

Is there a forensic test that can detect, Cadaver scent?

AFAIK, they are still trying to work out which scents the dogs react to.

Part of the problem is that there are hundreds of them, and will rise and fall in concentration over time, giving off different "bouquets" and the bouquet will also depend on factors such as time / decomp rate and whatever remains were / may be present.

Individually, or in small combinations, some scents can be present in nature or everyday life.

And then there is the issue as to how long the initial compounds remain detectable and in which conditions.

I have no problem whatsoever with bringing in VRD dogs as an asset to help find potential remains. In the Madeleine case none were found, and in the Jersey case, nothing found related to the scope of the murder investigation.

[John]

Members are reminded to keep to the facts and not post what amounts to speculation. TY

[Carana]

Wood absorbs fluids, scent a lot of stuff. Coconut my ass.

The "skull" fragment does appear to have been a bit of coconut or some other large woody pod.

Some people still insist that it WAS a skull and that there is a mega interplanetary conspiracy about it.

An argument has been whether this woody substance did in fact absorb, or was surrounded by, scents linked to possible death.

Nothing tangible has been found... and it's not clear whether the dog could have reacted to any other human decomp scent deposited nearby and the humans simply got it wrong.

[Carana]

"This report considers solely the possibility that Madeleine McCann has been murdered and her body is concealed." (Mark Harrison)

What is Eddie used for?

Evidence. He found none.

[Anna]

AFAIK, they are still trying to work out which scents the dogs react to.

Part of the problem is that there are hundreds of them, and will rise and fall in concentration over time, giving off different "bouquets" and the bouquet will also depend on factors such as time / decomp rate and whatever remains were / may be present.

Individually, or in small combinations, some scents can be present in nature or everyday life.

And then there is the issue as to how long the initial compounds remain detectable and in which conditions.

I have no problem whatsoever with bringing in VRD dogs as an asset to help find potential remains. In the Madeleine case none were found, and in the Jersey case, nothing found related to the scope of the murder investigation.

Thanks Carana,
I agree. that to find a body or remains, they are invaluable to search teams. Without the evidence of remains, however, there can be many other reasons for an alert. None of us know what scent it is, that the dog alerts too. Even the specialist don't know what specific smell or combination it is, for sure.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Carana]

The whole Jersey investigation was a shambles. Jersey was after PDL,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/7723860.stm

However, we are discussing whether or not Amaral's thoughts, words and writings on the dogs and their reliability were justified, since there was no corroborating evidence to substantiate the alerts.

"It's very unfortunate and I very much regret that information was put into the public domain by the States of Jersey police about certain finds at Haut de la Garenne, which was not strictly accurate."

A self-perpetuating whirlwind of "inaccurate" police leaks and a media frenzy. Sounds familiar.

As FM will no doubt point out, Grime was involved in both. However, where I disagree is that his involvement was the sole major factor.