Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 844254 times)

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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4950 on: September 02, 2015, 08:47:48 AM »
The McCanns would not have been tried in the UK, so what has UK law got to do with it?

It was a report by a UK policeman.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4951 on: September 02, 2015, 08:50:22 AM »
So the alerts tell us there was a 50/50 chance that a corpse lay in Apt 5a.  Big wow.

Not quite alfred.

More like 80/20.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4952 on: September 02, 2015, 08:52:22 AM »
Grime

Do you consider it coincidence that Grime wore the protective anti-cross contamination gear of his trade for just one inspection (the inspection of the vehicles)?

Do you consider it a further coincidence that he was handed that video so that he could use it to promote himself in his (further) progression of his career as a freelance dog handler?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4953 on: September 02, 2015, 09:07:38 AM »


Any answer to this yet?

Do you consider it coincidence that Grime wore the protective anti-cross contamination gear of his trade for just one inspection (the inspection of the vehicles)?

Do you consider it a further coincidence that he was handed that video so that he could use it to promote himself in his (further) progression of his career as a freelance dog handler?
Modify message
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 09:38:27 AM by Eleanor »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4954 on: September 02, 2015, 09:11:39 AM »
Any answer to this yet?

Do you consider it coincidence that Grime wore the protective anti-cross contamination gear of his trade for just one inspection (the inspection of the vehicles)?

Do you consider it a further coincidence that he was handed that video so that he could use it to promote himself in his (further) progression of his career as a freelance dog handler?
Modify message

TWO QUESTIONS.


Were you there ?

Second, have you seen the unedited videos of the dogs searches ?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4955 on: September 02, 2015, 09:14:42 AM »

Stephen tells us that either a body was detected or it wasn't.  As far as I'm concerned that's no better than a 50/50 guess.  Now tell me different.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 09:40:22 AM by Eleanor »

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4956 on: September 02, 2015, 09:33:34 AM »
However, it must be stated any such indications without any physical evidence to support them can not have any evidential value, being unconfirmed indications. Additionally I consider no inference can be drawn as to whether a human cadaver has previously been in any location without other supporting physical evidence.

Mark Harrison.

Who are these people who pretend to know better than the experts?

It may have dawned on Harrison that the PJ were placing too much store on the mere fact that the dogs alerted.

If he'd followed the news at all, the PJ were dropping the hint that she may have died in the apartment as early as 4 August and that the parents / T9 would have known so as of 5 August.


in Sol on August 4, 2007:

a report by Felicia Cabrita with Margarida Davim


Looking for Maddie’s body

(...)

Sol could find out that the English dogs are trained for different tasks. One, to detect human remains originating from dead flesh, and the other one to detect human blood or fluids. A specialist that was contacted by Sol explains that the technique of these animals rests on scientific bases, and that while “one of the dogs can distinguish between natural death or death by accident that does not involve bloodshed, the other one can diagnose whether someone died a violent death, with bloodshed or other spilled fluids”.

Tuesday night, a black and white springer spaniel that is trained to detect death, spent several hours in the apartment that the McCann family occupied in the Ocean Club resort, and from where Maddie disappeared on May 3. According to sources within the investigation, the dog marked the death of the child inside the apartment.




Madeleine possibly killed in the apartment

by Tânia Laranjo / Henrique Machado / Paulo Marcelino - 05Aug2007
(...)
Policia Judiciaria (PJ) believes that Madeleine may have been killed in the Algarve apartment where she spent her holidays with her parents and siblings, in May. The specially trained dogs from the english police, cocker spaniel, that have been sniffing for the trail of the missing child, have detected residues that point to the presence of a corpse on those premises.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic159.html

And a different version (also CdM):
(...)
The lead that is now being followed by authorities, which was revealed by ‘Sol’ yesterday and confirmed by CM, complements another piece of data that misled the PJ’s elements at the beginning of the investigation. A sniffer dog used by GNR tracked the child between the apartment where Madeleine was sleeping and another house within the same resort, which led elements from PJ to never dismiss the possibility that the girl was taken by someone who knew her.

The clue that was now detected in the McCanns’ apartment refocuses the investigation on the close circle to the girl’s parents and friends, although it sheds no light on the reasons that led to the child’s death. PJ is being especially careful in this phase, and the names of the main suspects are omitted.

(...)

CM could further discover that the investigation met a turnaround over the last few weeks. The arrival of the english dogs and their presence in the holiday apartment has the purpose to confirm that possibility, given the fact that suspicions are now centered on the McCanns’ close circle, the only persons who can explain the alleged death of the child, while still at home.

The kidnapping theory, according to a source with PJ that was contacted by CM, is being increasingly dismissed, as it would only fit a scenario where the child would have been alive. Yesterday’s searches, which were duly ordered by a court, started around 7.30 a.m.

Corpse in the house for over 2 hours

The body only smells like a corpse at least two hours after dead, “until that point it remains warm and transmits a living person’s smell to the dog”, subcomissaire Paulo Brissos, a former second commander of the PSP’s sniffer dog operation team, has guaranteed to CM.

This means that for the english authorities’ thingyer spaniel to have marked the death of Madeleine within the apartment where she slept, at the ‘Ocean Club’, the girl had to be dead inside the apartment for “between 2 and 4 hours”.

And by 6 August the story had got mangled - with claims that "blood" had been found in the parents' bedroom. :

Jornal de Noticias6.8.07

Blood in the McCanns’ bedroom

Traces of blood from a dead person, presumably from little Madeleine, have been discovered on a wall in the bedroom that was occupied by the McCann couple, in the apartment at the ‘Ocean Club’, in Lagos, from where the girl vanished on May 3. This fact locates the child’s death inside the apartment, but the investigators do not take it as certain that this was a homicide, although according to the clues that were collected by forensics experts, somebody tried to clean up these traces. On the contrary, JN knows that the explanation that is seen as more likely at the moment to explain Maddie’s death – practically given as certain – is that this was an accident.

New elements of proof were apparently discovered early last week, through the use of dogs that are specially trained to detect the biological residues of dead persons, independently of the time that has passed after they were left. Investigators are convinced that the blood belongs to Madeleine, but they wait for more detailed analysis in order to confirm their suspicions.

The day before yesterday and in the early morning yesterday, the McCanns’ apartment was still being subject to intense technical examinations by the PJ’s technical staff, namely using ultra-violet light sources. JN could witness that numerous pictures were also taken.

New interrogations

The discovery has led to an entirely new perspective on this case and may focus the investigation on the child’s family circle and the McCanns’ close friends. The possibility of new interrogations on these persons has not been dismissed.



Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4957 on: September 02, 2015, 09:41:53 AM »


You have no data to arrive at such a specific figure
I challenged this before and you were unable to back it up
So on what data do you claim80/20 as the probability there was a cadaver in the apartment
That claim is rubbish without supporting data
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 09:43:20 AM by Eleanor »

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4958 on: September 02, 2015, 09:44:54 AM »

You have no data to arrive at such a specific figure
I challenged this before and you were unable to back it up
So on what data do you claim80/20 as the probability there was a cadaver in the apartment
That claim is rubbish without supporting data

Go believing that dave.

Meanwhile keep posting your claims  which have no backup whatsoever.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4959 on: September 02, 2015, 09:47:09 AM »
Go believing that dave.

Meanwhile keep posting your claims  which have no backup whatsoever.

you cannot make a specific claim with no data...what you have proved is that you are no scientist

Offline Carana

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4960 on: September 02, 2015, 10:00:38 AM »
Stephen tells us that either a body was detected or it wasn't.  As far as I'm concerned that's no better than a 50/50 guess.  Now tell me different.

Is it that simple, though?

Without knowing how many decomposing human substances are within his training parameters and how many of those can only relate to the presence of a deceased person at some point, and how many of those could be either / or (living or dead), how can that probability be ascertained?

And that's without factoring in a error ratio.


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4961 on: September 02, 2015, 10:04:30 AM »
you cannot make a specific claim with no data...what you have proved is that you are no scientist

Refer to the study dave.

It would help.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4962 on: September 02, 2015, 10:51:54 AM »
Refer to the study dave.

It would help.

you cannot take one study and use those figures...junk science at it's worse...

there are many more factors involved

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4963 on: September 02, 2015, 11:09:56 AM »
you cannot take one study and use those figures...junk science at it's worse...

there are many more factors involved

in your opinion.

and what is that worth, more than anyone else's ?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #4964 on: September 02, 2015, 11:26:02 AM »
in your opinion.

and what is that worth, more than anyone else's ?

As much as yours