Amaral and the dogs

[mercury]

When Matt and Russell went to check?

Not only them but other possibilities seeing as timings are not definite to the minute..."around 9.30" eg Tanner returnng from her check or a bit later returning to her apartment, Matt returning, more or less as busy as earlier. But if that 9.30 "hypothesis" is correct, then Tannerman  at 9.15 has to be discarded.

[mercury]

Where is it stated Grime wanted to further investigate the garden?

Grime stated it in the dog video, IIRC something like, the area warranting further investigation the next day

[Brietta]

Nope.We have done this a million times. There is no evidence Eddie alerts to remnant scent of blood, not once mentioned by any UK police officer, adviser, handled or anyone else, both in discussion of this case, previous ones and in training.Besides, what the heck would pigs be doing bleeding in bedrooms and gardens. I'd leave it if I were you...you have your notions, I have yet to read anything remotely similar regarding Grimes' dogs. As a last aside, you would have to find evidence that Keela was trained to disregard so called "remnant scent of blood".

I recommend checking what Mr Grime has to say on a range of things ... particularly his confirmation the Eddie did indeed alert to blood.

**Snip
'The dog EVRD also alerts to blood from a live human being or only from a cadaver'
The dog EVRD is trained using whole and disintegrated material, blood, bone tissue, teeth, etc. and decomposed cross-contaminants. The dog will recognize all or parts of a human cadaver. He is not trained for 'live' human odours; no trained dog will recognize the smell of 'fresh blood'. They find, however, and give the alert for dried blood from a live human being.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

[mercury]

I recommend checking what Mr Grime has to say on a range of things ... particularly his confirmation the Eddie did indeed alert to blood.

**Snip
'The dog EVRD also alerts to blood from a live human being or only from a cadaver'
The dog EVRD is trained using whole and disintegrated material, blood, bone tissue, teeth, etc. and decomposed cross-contaminants. The dog will recognize all or parts of a human cadaver. He is not trained for 'live' human odours; no trained dog will recognize the smell of 'fresh blood'. They find, however, and give the alert for dried blood from a live human being.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

Did my post go over your head? yet again? What shall I do with you Brie cheese lol, at least do TRY to follow the conversation and all its details instead of repeating pointless mantras which don't really add but detract

[Jean-Pierre]

Did my post go over your head? yet again? What shall I do with you Brie cheese lol, at least do TRY to follow the conversation and all its details instead of repeating pointless mantras which don't really add but detract

So rude.  And so wrong. 

According to his handler, Martin Grime, Eddie does (did) alert to dried blood.

If you don't believe it, then I suggest you argue the toss with Grime. 

eta

"'The dog EVRD also alerts to blood from a live human being or only from a cadaver'
 The dog EVRD is trained using whole and disintegrated material, blood, bone tissue, teeth, etc. and decomposed cross-contaminants. The dog will recognize all or parts of a human cadaver. He is not trained for 'live' human odours; no trained dog will recognize the smell of 'fresh blood'. They find, however, and give the alert for dried blood from a live human being."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_RIGATORY.htm

[mercury]

So rude.  And so wrong. 

According to his handler, Martin Grime, Eddie does (did) alert to dried blood.

If you don't believe it, then I suggest you argue the toss with Grime. 

Oh dear Jean you will find I never questioned that, but that was nothing to do with the discussion at hand, which was about pigs blood that could have been in the McCann apartment!!!and remnant scent of blood which Lace said was something Eddie barked to, both silly, please read back for info

[Brietta]

Did my post go over your head? yet again? What shall I do with you Brie cheese lol, at least do TRY to follow the conversation and all its details instead of repeating pointless mantras which don't really add but detract

Hmmm ... let me get this right ... you posted ...

"There is no evidence Eddie alerts to remnant scent of blood, not once mentioned by any UK police officer, adviser, handled or anyone else, both in discussion of this case, previous ones and in training."

You have not backed that statement up with a cite.

His handler has indicated the exact opposite of what must undoubtedly be your opinion.  I have provided a cite to substantiate that.

But there you are ... why let the facts of the matter get in the way of utter fantasy.

[mercury]

Hmmm ... let me get this right ... you posted ...

"There is no evidence Eddie alerts to remnant scent of blood, not once mentioned by any UK police officer, adviser, handled or anyone else, both in discussion of this case, previous ones and in training."

You have not backed that statement up with a cite.

His handler has indicated the exact opposite of what must undoubtedly be your opinion.  I have provided a cite to substantiate that.

But there you are ... why let the facts of the matter get in the way of utter fantasy.

A) Where I comment there is no evidence there is no need for me to provide a cite, the onus rests on the person making x claim
B)I thnk you need to take a few  steps back to clear your head.....Mr Grime has never said Eddie reacts to the remnant scent of blood..the fantasy is all yours

[Brietta]

A) Where I comment there is no evidence there is no need for me to provide a cite, the onus rests on the person making x claim
B)I thnk you need to take a few  steps back to clear your head.....Mr Grime has never said Eddie reacts to the remnant scent of blood..the fantasy is all yours

                                                   &%+((£  Oh Dear ... what can one say to that.

[Lace]

Nope.We have done this a million times. There is no evidence Eddie alerts to remnant scent of blood, not once mentioned by any UK police officer, adviser, handled or anyone else, both in discussion of this case, previous ones and in training.Besides, what the heck would pigs be doing bleeding in bedrooms and gardens. I'd leave it if I were you...you have your notions, I have yet to read anything remotely similar regarding Grimes' dogs. As a last aside, you would have to find evidence that Keela was trained to disregard so called "remnant scent of blood".

I do have my notions you're right,   from reading what professionals in their field say about cadaver dogs.

The Professionals all said that when a cadaver dog alerts it has to be taken with caution as there could have been something in that area that had had blood on it and then been removed.

Are you saying that Eddie is a super cadaver dog that would not do this when it has been said that cadaver dogs would?

Pigs wouldn't have had to be bleeding in the bedroom and the garden,  you are being facetious there,   pig blood could very well have been in the fertiliser on the soil and so Eddie could have alerted to it,   the scent of it could also have been walked into the bedroom.

Ignore these facts if you wish,   but please do not make out my comments are in any way silly or need to be taken with humour.

You are not a professional trainer of cadaver dogs,   neither are you a forensic scientist.

[Brietta]

Hmmm ... so we really don't require a cite for anything we post on the Forum if we can now begin our posts with  ...

                                                     I've heard a rumour that ...

Why am I left with the very distinct impression there are those who don't mind at all if the ethos of this Forum is shot to hell because of utter silliness. 

[Carana]

Nope.We have done this a million times. There is no evidence Eddie alerts to remnant scent of blood, not once mentioned by any UK police officer, adviser, handled or anyone else, both in discussion of this case, previous ones and in training.Besides, what the heck would pigs be doing bleeding in bedrooms and gardens. I'd leave it if I were you...you have your notions, I have yet to read anything remotely similar regarding Grimes' dogs. As a last aside, you would have to find evidence that Keela was trained to disregard so called "remnant scent of blood".

Referring to blood:

It is possible however that the EVRD will locate the scent source as it would for 'dead body' scent.


'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate human blood to such small proportions that it is unlikely to be recovered by the forensic science procedures in place at this time due to its size or placement.

She will locate contaminated weapons, screen motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for minute human blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several washing machine cycles.

In training she has accurately located minute samples of blood on property up to thirty-six years old.

In order for the dog to locate the source the blood must have 'dried' in situ. Any 'wetting' once dried will not affect the dog's abilities.

Blood that is subjected to dilution by precipitation or other substantial water source prior to drying will soak into the ground or other absorbent material. This may dilute the scent to an unacceptable leve1 for accurate location.

It is possible however that the EVRD will locate the scent source as it would for 'dead body' scent. Forensic testing may not produce evidence but any alert may provide intelligence to support other factors in the investigation of a crime.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm

[Eleanor]

Any further attempts to expose or libel any members of this board will result in a suspension.

[Brietta]

Referring to blood:

It is possible however that the EVRD will locate the scent source as it would for 'dead body' scent.


'Keela' The Crime Scene Investigation (C.S.I.) dog will search for and locate human blood to such small proportions that it is unlikely to be recovered by the forensic science procedures in place at this time due to its size or placement.

She will locate contaminated weapons, screen motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for minute human blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several washing machine cycles.

In training she has accurately located minute samples of blood on property up to thirty-six years old.

In order for the dog to locate the source the blood must have 'dried' in situ. Any 'wetting' once dried will not affect the dog's abilities.

Blood that is subjected to dilution by precipitation or other substantial water source prior to drying will soak into the ground or other absorbent material. This may dilute the scent to an unacceptable leve1 for accurate location.

It is possible however that the EVRD will locate the scent source as it would for 'dead body' scent. Forensic testing may not produce evidence but any alert may provide intelligence to support other factors in the investigation of a crime.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm

When you actually read and digest what Mr Grime has to say in his statements as recorded in the files ... it becomes glaringly obvious that the sceptics who have formed their opinions and built their case on "the dogs" have not taken the time or bothered to do so.

They have ignored what the professional handler has to say in preference to the myth and innuendo propagated in pejorative early press leaks ... and in the pages of Mr Amaral's book.

Very much a case of not allowing the truth to get in the way of a good tall tale.

[ferryman]

Grime stated it in the dog video, IIRC something like, the area warranting further investigation the next day

Ah!

I can't listen to those.

My speakers have packed up.