Brexit has well and truly begun!

[G-Unit]

21 of them chose country.  Does that surprise you?

Correction; they said they chose country.

[Venturi Swirl]

Correction; they said they chose country.

LOL.  And the fact that they were prepared to be sacked from their party tells you what exactly?  That they were putting their careers first?

[G-Unit]

LOL.  And the fact that they were prepared to be sacked from their party tells you what exactly?  That they were putting their careers first?

It tells me that they're determined to stop Brexit at any cost. Whether they are as altruistic as they say they are I'm not convinced. They say they're worried about the suffering of the poor, but how many of them showed this concern in the face of deliberate Conservative policies making the poor poorer? They say they're worried about shortages of medicine, but they sat back and let NHS funding cuts take place. Job losses? Well, they allowed zero contract jobs to be used as a reason for taking people out of the unemployed statistics. Given their hypocricy I see no reason to think they care about others at all.

[Venturi Swirl]

It tells me that they're determined to stop Brexit at any cost. Whether they are as altruistic as they say they are I'm not convinced. They say they're worried about the suffering of the poor, but how many of them showed this concern in the face of deliberate Conservative policies making the poor poorer? They say they're worried about shortages of medicine, but they sat back and let NHS funding cuts take place. Job losses? Well, they allowed zero contract jobs to be used as a reason for taking people out of the unemployed statistics. Given their hypocricy I see no reason to think they care about others at all.

You're a funny one aren't you?   Why are they determined to stop Brexit "at any cost" including their own careers, in your view?  For their own benefit?  Perhaps you could explain how that works?

[Miss Taken Identity]

It tells me that they're determined to stop Brexit at any cost. Whether they are as altruistic as they say they are I'm not convinced. They say they're worried about the suffering of the poor, but how many of them showed this concern in the face of deliberate Conservative policies making the poor poorer? They say they're worried about shortages of medicine, but they sat back and let NHS funding cuts take place. Job losses? Well, they allowed zero contract jobs to be used as a reason for taking people out of the unemployed statistics. Given their hypocricy I see no reason to think they care about others at all.

Have any of them given a valid reason for not carrying out the wishes of those who voted.  This is NOT a party whip issue this was a vote to answer a question. MP's are not  rulers of an empire  they are servants.

[G-Unit]

Have any of them given a valid reason for not carrying out the wishes of those who voted.  This is NOT a party whip issue this was a vote to answer a question. MP's are not  rulers of an empire  they are servants.

They say they're elected representatives not delegates, but the two things aren't all that different. Trade Unions choose people to represent them too, but unless they try to deliver what their members want they won't last long.

[Venturi Swirl]

Nigel Farage walks into a pub and says, "I'll have a pint of beer please..." The barman pours a pint, then throws it all over Farage.

"What did you do that for?" says Farage, drenched to the skin.

"Because you're in a metaphor which illustrates the stupidity of asking for something but not stipulating how you fecking wanted it delivered, you frog-faced sniveling cant!"

"But I'm still thirsty, so I want a pint -- this time in a glass!" says Farage.

"You can't ask again!" said the barman.

"Why not?" snivelled Farage.

"Democracy." says the barman.

[Miss Taken Identity]

They say they're elected representatives not delegates, but the two things aren't all that different. Trade Unions choose people to represent them too, but unless they try to deliver what their members want they won't last long.

It really only takes two great skills to accomplish harmony: Be a great listener and have great negotiation techniques.

[Venturi Swirl]

Perhaps a Brexiteer here could explain?
“It is all this stuff about 'regulatory divergence' which is so chilling.  Almost nobody who is sane is antagonistic to the single market and customs union - these massively benefit the UK and all the other countries dotted around outside the EU weep to imagine how their economies would be improved by this access.  Brexit people always point to Spain and Greece as counter-examples, but even in these cases they are staggeringly wealthier societies than they were a couple of generations back.

If we really are so self-hating that we want to stop having any further say in the running of our continent then OK let's leave.  It's stupid, but whatever.  We can leave while staying in the SM and CU. 

All the Labour supporters who are in favour of Brexit must ask themselves what it is about 'regulatory divergence' which is so attractive to those in the Tory party frantic to get us out, with 'no deal' if need be.  What do the financial backers of Johnson, Cummings, the ERG, etc think is so terrific about the opportunity to 'diverge'?

It doesn't matter if as a Labour MP you don't like the EU - if you vote with Johnson you are voting to betray your constituents as surely as if you directly voted to crash worker rights.  In a way this is built into wanting to leave: the 'friction' and damage created by not being in the SM and CU puts all UK exports at a clear disadvantage.  So how do you improve your costs?  Not, I would imagine, by much lower executive pay, but by squidging working conditions.

This is so blooming obvious I don't see why on Earth people like Frank Field even give Brexit the time of day.”

[Miss Taken Identity]

The EU can be compared to a bad marriage- which will end in a bad divorce- it always does!

Being wooed into a common market  was the begining like a woman is wooed into a relationship. then comes a treaty or two-  a marriage for the woman. Over time without realising the country is beint stripped little by little and  there are less freedoms and choices and the iron fist begind to be shaken... The battered and beaten women reaches a point where she knows she will be murdered by her husband and her children will suffer. bravely she seeks help and escapes. Not an easy descision when everyone is telling her what  a great husband she has, always polite, well mannered, hard working...blah blah blah, but they never lived her life with him so their opinions don't count. They don't see what she saw  why would they be affected?  The seperation is ugly and exhausting, the abusive husband does not want to let go of the best thing that ever happened to him..he fights dirty to keep a hold,pulling out all the favours from those who knew his real reasons as they were abusers themselves.

However, after a while the wife and children endure hardship for a while, but eventually they all find themselves free and happy to be unafraid of their father.

similarities I find with the EU situation.

[Venturi Swirl]

The EU can be compared to a bad marriage- which will end in a bad divorce- it always does!

Being wooed into a common market  was the begining like a woman is wooed into a relationship. then comes a treaty or two-  a marriage for the woman. Over time without realising the country is beint stripped little by little and  there are less freedoms and choices and the iron fist begind to be shaken... The battered and beaten women reaches a point where she knows she will be murdered by her husband and her children will suffer. bravely she seeks help and escapes. Not an easy descision when everyone is telling her what  a great husband she has, always polite, well mannered, hard working...blah blah blah, but they never lived her life with him so their opinions don't count. They don't see what she saw  why would they be affected?  The seperation is ugly and exhausting, the abusive husband does not want to let go of the best thing that ever happened to him..he fights dirty to keep a hold,pulling out all the favours from those who knew his real reasons as they were abusers themselves.

However, after a while the wife and children endure hardship for a while, but eventually they all find themselves free and happy to be unafraid of their father.

similarities I find with the EU situation.

LOL.  You see Great Britain as an abused and battered wife this last 40 years?!  Yet Brexiteers are always telling us what a strong and powerful country we are, an economic powerhouse, needed more than needing.  Go figure!!

[Carana]

It really only takes two great skills to accomplish harmony: Be a great listener and have great negotiation techniques.

More Obama than Trump, perhaps.

[Carana]

Empathy is a generally an underrated quality and especially so in the world of political strategy. People who enjoy gaming negotiations like to think in terms of ruthless self-interest. But when you lack empathy, that self-interest becomes harder to satisfy. Unless you understand your negotiating partner, you’ll find it harder to get what you want from them.

That foundational mistake is written into every sentence of a crucial memo from No 10 special adviser Dominic Cummings and sent to the Spectator magazine on Monday night. We don’t know it’s him of course. It was sent by “a contact in No 10”. But the length, lexicon and attitude of the writing indicates it could only ever have come from him.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/dominic-cummings-memo-reveals-contradictory-brexit-policy-with-demented-overtones-1.4044150

[Mr Gray]

The EU can be compared to a bad marriage- which will end in a bad divorce- it always does!

Being wooed into a common market  was the begining like a woman is wooed into a relationship. then comes a treaty or two-  a marriage for the woman. Over time without realising the country is beint stripped little by little and  there are less freedoms and choices and the iron fist begind to be shaken... The battered and beaten women reaches a point where she knows she will be murdered by her husband and her children will suffer. bravely she seeks help and escapes. Not an easy descision when everyone is telling her what  a great husband she has, always polite, well mannered, hard working...blah blah blah, but they never lived her life with him so their opinions don't count. They don't see what she saw  why would they be affected?  The seperation is ugly and exhausting, the abusive husband does not want to let go of the best thing that ever happened to him..he fights dirty to keep a hold,pulling out all the favours from those who knew his real reasons as they were abusers themselves.

However, after a while the wife and children endure hardship for a while, but eventually they all find themselves free and happy to be unafraid of their father.

similarities I find with the EU situation.

I think you need to haul yourself into the 21St century... What an appallingly sexist post

[Venturi Swirl]

From “Steve in Cambridge “ in today’s Times:

Mr Johnson's rhetoric is sounding horribly hollow. Do or die? Die in a ditch? Rubbish - and it's plain for all to see.

This is inevitable. The undeliverable sold by the incorrigible and bought by the gullible. Brexit is a mythical nirvana that doesn't exist in a global economy. Mr Johnson is a closet Remainer - he knows he can't deliver Brexit, and he doesn't want to.

It's the perfect time to choose sanity over political vanity. It's time to revoke - and it's time for us to get back to business, regain our lost reputation for pragmatism, optimism and it's time to dump Brexit once and for all.

He can dump Mr Cummings too - the poisonous would-be Rasputin who has soured relations with the rest of Europe, a sizeable chunk of the Tory Party and most of the country. Brexit was Bonkers. It's an Ex-Brexit. Dead.