Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.

[sadie]

Thankyou Icabod.

That is very honourable and kind of you.

I appreciate it

[Eleanor]

You done good, our kid.  I know how difficult it is for you to lay it all out, but this perfect.

[sadie]

You done good, our kid.  I know how difficult it is for you to lay it all out, but this perfect.

Mmm, thank you Eleanor,  praise indeed

I was worried, cos I know that, like you, Icabod is a master wordsmith .. and I aint.

Good to see you on here

[sadie]

Thank you Sadie. Well done.
Thank you to icabodcrane Also.

Thanks Neeley.  Long time no chat.  My fault; I just got so involved in working it all out ... or trying to.  Am still honing lots of things, but getting there, it seems ... eventually!!

Nice to see you on here too.

Icabod has gone up in my esteem.  He has shown himself as a gentleman, with no rancour.   Well done Icabod.

[John]

Hi Sadie,

Can I ask why the little car park to the south of the flats.  Why not the car park on the north side which is easier to get to from the vantage point of the balcony?  He or a she as you suggest could have parked anywhere near the LPG tank shown in the photo below.   Having seen Tanner walking up the road all the driver had to do was to drive up and turn right and wait along there for the abductor to catch up.  Then it was off to God knows where in the four hours it took for the PJ to get involved.




Do you think the lookout was more likely to have been female?

[sadie]

Hi Sadie,

Can I ask why the little car park to the south of the flats.  Why not the car park on the north side which is easier to get to from the vantage point of the balcony?  He or a she as you suggest could have parked anywhere near the LPG tank shown in the photo below.   Having seen Tanner walking up the road all the driver had to do was to drive up and turn right and wait along there for the abductor to catch up.  Then it was off to God knows where in the four hours it took for the PJ to get involved.

Hi John'

Two reasons:

1)  No man would walk around PdL carrying a stolen child in his arms by choice.  The abduction went wrong.  It has to be the little car park to the South because of this..  Because Jerry and Jez and Jane were in the way, Bundleman was not picked up by the getaway driver?


Also this abduction was planned very carefully and these peeps are wiley; they know that cars parked in that Northern car park are adjacent to 5A, and also parked on a private place.  Residents might take note and the PJ (surely!) would have checked that northern car park.  It is so close - and such an obvious place!

The southern one is public, anyone parks there and just as easy to get to for the watcher.   He goes out the back rather than the front.   
Yet far away enough away to be less suspicious.  Driving distance only 100 yards (90 metres approx).


[/quote]

2)  When talking about the northern car park, I am assuming that you mean the one immediately to the right of Jane Tanner as she neared the top of R. Francisco Gentils?   The car park to the block of flats that the watcher used.

The northern car park also has the disadvantage that any one looking out from the apartments on the North side of R. Augustinho De Silva, (behind that swimming pool and further along), could have seen the vehicle pull out of the nothern car park, drive in a straight line to the pick up and then away.  All the route was in their vision.  They may have noticed what the driver looked like as he walked across the car park and because of having full route vision have been able to identify him

With the lower southern car park car, there were two corners the vehicle has to travel, around, so no-one could have witnessed the whole driving and pick up operation.  No reason for anyone to connect the vehicle pulling out with the pick up around two corners.


Believe you me John, rightly or wrongly, I have this abduction attached to a much bigger group, who are well known for hiding things by simple stratagems/ subterfuge like that.  A worldwide "whiter than white" group.<<< Ho-Hum

In plain sight - yet hidden.  Magick (and I add the K for a reason)


With these peeps, if they point that-away, you go the opposite, or around two corners ... then you are safe. 
Oh and they add a good bit of disinformation everywhere. 


They have led The Mccann  PI's a merry chase, because of this disinformation ... and the PI's just had to check everything

Do you think the lookout was more likely to have been female?

John, I don't really have any idea, but I favour a man, because unhappily I fear that this is a paedophilic abduction ... and I think women are less likely to be involved in such. 



I would like to make this plain.  This is only a theory, but it all fits.  Seems to me.

[John]

Thank you for presenting your ideas on where the alleged abductor went to Sadie.

In order that everyone can see your theory at a glance I have produced a new plan.   I haven't personally visited Praia de Luz yet so am restricted by the limitations presented by Google Maps and the photos taken by the Google van.

I am assuming that the abductor could have gone through the hedge by the two satellite dishes.

[stephen25000]

All this pure speculation.

There is no proof at all of an abduction.

You can spout various theories til the end of time.

However, there is no substitute for facts, and here other than flights of fancy, there are none.

If there were, the SY or PJ would have found some, and they clearly haven't.

[John]

All this pure speculation.

There is no proof at all of an abduction.

You can spout various theories til the end of time.

However, there is no substitute for facts, and here other than flights of fancy, there are none.

If there were, the SY or PJ would have found some, and they clearly haven't.

Why do you insist there is no evidence of an abduction when there clearly is, unless of course you are calling the McCann's and everyone else that was there that night LIARS?

[John]

My own view Sadie is that the southern car park is overlooked by far too many properties.

Note the lamp standard where both GNR tracker dogs lost Madeleine's scent.

[John]

Undoubtedly  he is calling the McCanns and all their friends liars - that goes without saying, he is a "sceptic".

Well, there is no basis for doing so. 

[stephen25000]

All this pure speculation.

There is no proof at all of an abduction.

You can spout various theories til the end of time.

However, there is no substitute for facts, and here other than flights of fancy, there are none.

If there were, the SY or PJ would have found some, and they clearly haven't.

Why do you insist there is no evidence of an abduction when there clearly is, unless of course you are calling the McCann's and everyone else that was there that night LIARS?

Well provide me with precise quantitative and unequivocal evidence of abduction.

Secondly, YOU do not know the Mccanns and associates told the truth. That is your belief, no more.

Beliefs are not evidence, and if you put all this rubbish up in court, you know where it would end up.

The bottom line is simple, there is no evidence of abduction, or the PJ or SY would have found it.

Hearsay is easy, but there is no substitute for evidence.

[sadie]

Thank you for presenting your ideas on where the alleged abductor went to Sadie.

In order that everyone can see your theory at a glance I have produced a new plan.   I haven't personally visited Praia de Luz yet so am restricted by the limitations presented by Google Maps and the photos taken by the Google van.

I am assuming that the abductor could have gone through the hedge by the two satellite dishes.

Thank you John.

In actual fact, from memory, I am almost certain that the hedge you refer to was a good dense hedge.  Not the sort that anyone would push through.  Mind you three years had passed when we visited in 2010 and greenery really shoots way in Portugal with the sun and westerly rainfall***.    However IIRC you could reach that alleyway which used to be labelled 'Aldemeante Ocean Club' on GE via the parking lot of the next apartment block.   Or probably even via the northern parking area you mentioned earlier, but then you had to go into that parking lot by the drive-in IIRC. 

Heri might remember differently.  I only had 3 days; he had 26.

I have always thought it quite feasible that, having missed his getaway car, he might circle round as you show, back to the parking area where I believe the getyaway vehicle had been standing.


Too late tho.  The watcher had alraedy 'wet his pants' and scarpered.


The big questions are "What did he do next?" and "where did he go?"


Names that are mentioned in the case, whose homes I know, I believe are Murat, Fazackerley , Malinka and I think I know David Symingtons.  If I could email you I could show you where they are.

Fazackerley actually had a very good view of the route JT took and lived at the end of the next little street just below where I believe the getaway vehicle stood.  You can find his house cos he had a big 4 wheel drive vehicle and on certain dated GE images it fills his drive. 

For his house to have been used by the watcher and for my criteria that Gerry and Jez chatting had to be out of sight, Gerry and Jez had to have been on the Eastern side of the street chatting as Gerry said.  This was the place I believed was correct until I suddenly realised that I was wrong; that they stood, almost without doubt, on the alleyway corner.

Interestingly, if you zoom right in, you will see that there is a tiny walkway between the two little raods (parking areas) immediately below the apartment where I believe the watcher was.  It is kinda hidden and it connects the two car parks.  So that you are clear what I mean.  The upper car parking area is opposite the tapas Reception.  The other is the next  roadway parking area further South.


However, the fact that Fazackerley has a four wheel drive, a suitable view from his house (if they were chatting on the RH pavement), a hidden pathway and an interest in a commercial boat may not mean anything.   We have to face that.

I would like to re-iterate that I am not pointing the finger at him.  However I do keep him in the back of my mind in case anything else turns up.




*** Am remembering Casa Pia Orphanage, attached to Geronimos Orphanage in Belem, Lisboa.  When we visited and looked we believe we identified the infamous gates that the infamous doctor drove his ?red? sports car thru and the children heard the dreaded throb of the engine, knowing that at least one of them would be taken away to be used by some filthy peado elite.  Next door to this gate stood a house which I believe belonged to Bibi, the man who fixed things for the elites.
ETA.  Jeez, I missed the "punch line".  THe house that I think was Bibis had a branch of a tree that had grown sooo big, since he went to jail,  that it touched down in the middle of the roadway.  It wasn't many years.  Even now when using GE streetscene you can see this house next door to the double green gates, that branch has been removed but everything else is growing way over the pavement.  Things grow fast in PT

[Redblossom]

Was it established why the sniffer dogs did not follow this theoretical trail? But followed the trail around the apartment block and up the alley and down the street and to the car park that Madeleine had made some time between Monday and Wednesday?

[John]

There is a natural gap in the hedge which takes you down between the satellite dishes which anyone carrying a child could slip through.  That is why I was hoping that some of you who had actually visited the location had explored this and taken other photos.