Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.

[John]

Would this not have been a much quieter place to wait Sadie even though it was obvious?

I don't even see any CCTV cameras.  In fact are there any CCTV cameras anywhere around the Ocean Club?

[Redblossom]

There was no  CCTV anywhere at the Ocean Club.

[sadie]

There is a natural gap in the hedge which takes you down between the satellite dishes which anyone carrying a child could slip through.  That is why I was hoping that some of you who had actually visited the location had explored this and taken other photos.

You are right John, there is a gap and the hedge looks quite thin.  Have just checked GE and this is near the upper end of Aldeamente The Ocean club.  It is the hedge to the upper (northern) car parking space to the Watchers balcony apartment, beside the pavement where Bundleman walked after Janes sighting.  Really thought that i had walked that hedge and found no gaps.  I also thought that there was wire mesh reinforcing mingled with it - but no sign of that here.

There doesn't appear to be an entrance to the alleyway from the next building along, (in an easterly directioin)  This alleyway behind the gap in the hedge is where I wondered if bundleman had turned right (south) and circled back to the get-away vehicle parking spot - just as you show

But if my theory is right, then the vehicle had buzzed off already.  Poor old bundleman, left in the lurch!

[stephen25000]

The bottom line is simple, there is no evidence of abduction, or the PJ or SY would have found it.

How do you explain SY's Andy Redwood's comments last year then?  He says they are working on the theory that Madeleine was taken in a criminal act by a stranger.  Why would he say  that if there was no evidence of abduction?

So where's Madeleine ?

He also admitted she could be dead or alive.

[Redblossom]

Was it established why the sniffer dogs did not follow this theoretical trail? But followed the trail around the apartment block and up the alley and down the street and to the car park that Madeleine had made some time between Monday and Wednesday?

?? Bump

[John]

Was it established why the sniffer dogs did not follow this theoretical trail? But followed the trail around the apartment block and up the alley and down the street and to the car park that Madeleine had made some time between Monday and Wednesday?

?? Bump

My own view on this Redblossom and the only possible reason for it is that Madeleine's feet never touched the ground as she was being carried waist high.  An air scent would therefore be lost in the atmosphere by the time the doggies came around.  Had she walked along the road then a semi-permanent trail would have been left behind.

I wonder what everyone else thinks about this?

[John]

....  Poor old bundleman, left in the lurch!

I would have thought that they would have had mobile telephones so as to be able to communicate in such an eventuality so does anyone know if there is a record of the mobile calls made in that vicinity at around 10pm that night?

[Redblossom]

I thought skin cells hair and sweat were shed all the time whether walking or being carried, I am no expert, so I too would like to hear other views as I feel it is very important

[Redblossom]

it seems tracking dogs were used if I am reading this right


http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/mammals/sar-dog2.htm

[sadie]

My own view Sadie is that the southern car park is overlooked by far too many properties.

Note the lamp standard where both GNR tracker dogs lost Madeleine's scent.

John you may be right.  When we visited it was exceedingly quiet, and our visit was in high season.  The Mccanns were there in low or shoulder season, so likely it was even quieter, but I acept what you are saying.

The building that I believe the Watcher was in, is the building to the extreme left of the image.  I think that the gate is the first vertical orange line.  That is the first very thin orange line.  The getaway vehicle could have been pulled virtually up to that gate.   Remember that Madeleine was not being transferred there; she was being picked up at the drive-in entrance to 5A on another street.

As there were two corners to go around, nobody in those  little houses would have thought that someone getting into a van parked there was anything out of the ordinary.  THe pick up, where things became suspicious to the inquisitive, was around two corners and well out of sight.  Nothing to connect the man getting into a van with an abducted child. 

A mundane event, a man just getting into his van and driving off.  That is all.

[sadie]

....  Poor old bundleman, left in the lurch!

I would have thought that they would have had mobile telephones so as to be able to communicate in such an eventuality so does anyone know if there is a record of the mobile calls made in that vicinity at around 10pm that night?

Yes there are records but apart from knowing that there were three-way calls between Pdl, Ireland and Porte das Grutas (near Fatima and more than half way up to Porto) and Ireland, I know nothing about these calls.  My bet is that someone on here knows a fair deal about them, but I dont know who that 'expert' would be.

Bundle man doesn't appear to have been carrying a mobile.  I think that he probably stopped off somewhere (staff quarters?) and phoned someone from there.  But nobody knows

[sadie]

The bottom line is simple, there is no evidence of abduction, or the PJ or SY would have found it.

How do you explain SY's Andy Redwood's comments last year then?  He says they are working on the theory that Madeleine was taken in a criminal act by a stranger.  Why would he say  that if there was no evidence of abduction?

So where's Madeleine ?

He also admitted she could be dead or alive.

None of us know the answer to that Stephen.  Hopefully Madeleine is still alive and well.

[sadie]

Was it established why the sniffer dogs did not follow this theoretical trail? But followed the trail around the apartment block and up the alley and down the street and to the car park that Madeleine had made some time between Monday and Wednesday?

?? Bump

My own view on this Redblossom and the only possible reason for it is that Madeleine's feet never touched the ground as she was being carried waist high.  An air scent would therefore be lost in the atmosphere by the time the doggies came around.  Had she walked along the road then a semi-permanent trail would have been left behind.

I wonder what everyone else thinks about this?

That's what I think too.  Madeleines scent was faint and in the air.  It was a gusty night with winds up to 20mph.   Most of the scent, maybe all had blown away.  The abduction crew were far smellier and the lifter had almost certainly handled Madeleines blanket. 

Before the abduction they had parked the van in that little car park and bundleman and possibly the lifter had walked that pathway between the apartment and the Tapas/garden section en route for the front door to 5A.  A circuitous route ...  but a hidden route.

No way of telling whether the scent was going or coming back, if you get my meaning.  No knowing if the scent was Madeleine's , or the abduction crews.  But more likely as Madeleine was carried, that it was the scent of the carriers, going either way.

[sadie]

I thought skin cells hair and sweat were shed all the time whether walking or being carried, I am no expert, so I too would like to hear other views as I feel it is very important

I think you are right Redblossom, but I doubt that Madeleine sweated at all.  I didn't as a child.  As for hair and skin cells, they would be blown all over the place.  This wasn't indoors, it was outside on a blustery evening.

[Redblossom]

I thought skin cells hair and sweat were shed all the time whether walking or being carried, I am no expert, so I too would like to hear other views as I feel it is very important

I think you are right Redblossom, but I doubt that Madeleine sweated at all.  I didn't as a child.  As for hair and skin cells, they would be blown all over the place.  This wasn't indoors, it was outside on a blustery evening.

I suppose theyhave dogs for spring summer autumn and winter then