Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.

[Robittybob1]

... snip ...
You are correct in the fact that Stephen Carpenters statement was not taken for months afterwards; almost a year.  I missed the date of the statement.
... snip ...

What I notice about Stephen Carpenter's rogatory is that it appears to be referring to a previous statement
"DCF: Do you agree with me reading out your statement'

SC: Yes, I agree, yes.

DCF: Or would you prefer to read out the statement yourself'

SC: No, thats fine, you can read it.

DCF: I thought it would make more sense that way:

SC: Ah ha.

DCF: So when we get to the moment that refers to Portugal, it will refresh your memory."  So was this an English translation of a previous statement Stephen had made in Portugal.  Is there a date is mentioned.
"DC: Good. Right, this statement was taken by a UK police officer on the 17th May and so the facts should be quite fresh in your memory.

SC: Yes.
.
DCF: This is obviously 2007 and begins by explaining the reason for the questioning, in other words, relating to the disappearance of Madeleine. In the statement you say "I will mention the following persons who I will describe with greater detail at the end of the statement" Is it C*** or C******'" 
Does that say he made his first statement in English on the 17th May 2007???

[sadie]

I agree, the balconies immediately opposite 5a have a great view of the apartment but we must remember that in May 2007 the car park to the front of 5a was surrounded by tall mature trees.

By the way, I moved your post to your own theory thread.

Yep, they were surrounded by tall mature trees

But as pointed out in a previous thread, there was a gap in this tree barrier plenty large enough for someone on the balconies to see what was going on in front of Madeleines window and also in the area immediately in front of the recessed area of the front door.   There are at least two photographs on this forum showing that gap

Easy to see and also easy to signal both ways.


Thanks John, it was my response to your post in this thread, but .............?
Please could you also post my previous post (the one that you first wiped) into the theory thread.  TY

That was probably the best concise description of what i think might have happened that I have ever done .... and it took me a lot of time checking its feasibily out and then writing it.

I think it was very easy to understand too.

[sadie]

I find it strange that they would bother to build a stairwell with balconies.  Was this concept ever proven true?

They had to have stairs to reach the different floors, Rob.  In hot countries they sometimes have exterior staircases and walkways.  The balconies were a luxury addition imo, they enhanced the architecture and were a pleasant amenity to have.

[sadie]

How do you think the abductors would get a key?  Are you thinking in terms of ex-Ocean Club staff?

I am thinking in terms of OC Staff in collaberation, ex-Ocean Club staff, careless keeping of the keys, even possibly previous people who stayed in that flat.  Maybe taking a copy and casting their own.  Easy to do.

There such things as Master Keys too, aren't there?


Leaving the window open might have been a ploy to take the searchers eye off the fact that the front door was used.   Using a key to the front door, immediately would throw suspicion on OC staff, wouldn't it?   

So, if the perp/s were presently, or had worked for OC, best to keep  suspicion off OC staff ... dont you think?

[sadie]

Has anyone thought it possible that the person in the Tanner sighting actually entered the car park to the North of Block 6?  For Jane doesn't say she saw him still walking along the path when she go to the top of the road.

In my theory, Rob, Tannerman didn't intend to walk on the public roads at all.

Because the getaway driver was dithering about what to do (having seen Gerry and Jez in the way) Tannerman was left "holding the baby" and very anxious.  On an impulse he decided to walk towards the corner to meet the getaway vehicle/ see what had delayed it.  There he saw Jane approaching.  Rather than turn back and have Jane following him, he made a snap decision to carry on walking in the direction he was already going.   Maybe he was thinking that he could double back via the alleyways to that little car park as shown in Johns excellent diagram.  Thanks again John.

But I think that the getaway driver had taken off in the vehicle, so leaving Tannerman literally holding the baby



I would just say that I think that the RED car is in the spot that the getaway vehicle would likely have been standing.   There is the back garden gateway right there.

All this is a theory that works at a number of levels, but it is in IMO only and as such is not fact

Thank you for presenting your ideas on where the alleged abductor went to Sadie.

In order that everyone can see your theory at a glance I have produced a new plan.   I haven't personally visited Praia de Luz yet so am restricted by the limitations presented by Google Maps and the photos taken by the Google van.

I am assuming that the abductor could have gone through the hedge by the two satellite dishes.

[sadie]

Great post.  Did Stephen do this?

Did Angelo write that?  I never saw it ...so unlike Angelo ... i must have been sleeping!

[Brietta]

I find it strange that they would bother to build a stairwell with balconies.  Was this concept ever proven true?

Heri took photographs from the viewpoint of the balcony on block 6 which illustrates the extent of the view over the McCann apartment ... there is some discussion about it here:  http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8179.125;wap2

[Robittybob1]

They had to have stairs to reach the different floors, Rob.  In hot countries they sometimes have exterior staircases and walkways.  The balconies were a luxury addition imo, they enhanced the architecture and were a pleasant amenity to have.

Did you climb that staircase? Did you look from the balcony?

[Robittybob1]

I am thinking in terms of OC Staff in collaberation, ex-Ocean Club staff, careless keeping of the keys, even possibly previous people who stayed in that flat.  Maybe taking a copy and casting their own.  Easy to do.

There such things as Master Keys too, aren't there?


Leaving the window open might have been a ploy to take the searchers eye off the fact that the front door was used.   Using a key to the front door, immediately would throw suspicion on OC staff, wouldn't it?   

So, if the perp/s were presently, or had worked for OC, best to keep  suspicion off OC staff ... dont you think?

I understand you are thinking partly in terms of a planned abduction of a specific person, so if they used a key they would need to have the right key to a specific apartment. That takes a bit of pre-planning.

[sadie]

Did you climb that staircase? Did you look from the balcony?

No

But I am very capable of reading G Earth and reading photographs and both the areas in front of the front door recess and immediately in front of Madeleines window were clearly visible via a decent gap in the foliage as seen on several photos on here.  The watcher couldn't see the actual door and neither could he see the actual window, but he could see the areas immediately in front of these. 

It would have been simplicity itself for him to signal a man standing right by either of those places.  And of course it would have been simplicity itself for a man outside those places to signal back


The same is true of the patio door.  The watcher could have seen anyone going up the steps and across the patio to the patio doors .... and the reverse is true too.

From at least one of those balconies (maybe both upper ones) a watcher could actually see right into Apartment 5A.  He could see anyone in the lounge and see where they were heading to.  There was a light left on.  If Gerry left the bathroom door open, then he could probably see him in there too

[sadie]

I understand you are thinking partly in terms of a planned abduction of a specific person, so if they used a key they would need to have the right key to a specific apartment. That takes a bit of pre-planning.

I believe that Madeleine was carefully selected and that the whole abduction if it happened was pre planned in the greatest detail. 

1)  It is said (is it fact or rumour?) that one of the maintenance staff 'lost' a complete bunch of apartment keys and kept it quiet.  Were these keys lost, borrowed or stolen by him or someone else from him?

2)  Having stayed in many establishments in Europe i can say in total honesty that on a number of occasions had i been brazen enough, I could have popped behind an empty counter and helped myself to a key ... but it would have been risky.

3)  One of the three OG suspects, whose name I forget, was an OC employee.  Am I right in thinking that he had a record or have I got that wrong?   Please correct me if I have.

4)  There are other possibilities for getting hold of the key too


Please remember that in previuos weeks, several OC apartments had been broken into with no obvious means of entering.  Were they entered using a key too?

[ restored edited ]

[Robittybob1]

No

But I am very capable of reading G Earth and reading photographs and both the areas in front of the front door recess and immediately in front of Madeleines window were clearly visible via a decent gap in the foliage as seen on several photos on here.  The watcher couldn't see the actual door and neither could he see the actual window, but he could see the areas immediately in front of these. 

It would have been simplicity itself for him to signal a man standing right by either of those places.  And of course it would have been simplicity itself for a man outside those places to signal back


The same is true of the patio door.  The watcher could have seen anyone going up the steps and across the patio to the patio doors .... and the reverse is true too.

From at least one of those balconies (maybe both upper ones) a watcher could actually see right into Apartment 5A.  He could see anyone in the lounge and see where they were heading to.  There was a light left on.  If Gerry left the bathroom door open, then he could probably see him in there too

I didn't get most of that but why do you think these balconies are not part of someone's apartment.  Like they all seem to have balconies attached to their apartments, would they just build balconies off stairwells?

[sadie]

I didn't get most of that but why do you think these balconies are not part of someone's apartment.  Like they all seem to have balconies attached to their apartments, would they just build balconies off stairwells?

It is difficult to explain Rob .... and I am not good at explanations

In order to understand it you need to be using G Earth, both as is and street scene and be referring to photos shown on here a couple of months or so ago



These three balconies were built straight off the stair wells.  They were attached to no-ones specific apartment and a cheeky person could easily have snuck up there (for a fag and a watch?).

Mckenzie reported a suspicious pile of fag ends on the one pertinent balcony, but seems nothing was investigated from his report.  He calls the balconies "public" balconies, altho i doubt that the general public normally used them.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm

-snip-
On the day of our departure we had to move out of our apartment and Mark Warner gave us another to use during the day until we left.

It was across the road from the McCann's apartment and the public balcony overlooked the side of their building and the road. You could actually see the front and back of the building from that view point. I noticed on the balcony that there was a pile of cigarette butts as if there had been someone stood there for some time smoking. I thought that was odd , and it could have been someone watching the McCann's apartment to monitor their comings and goings.
It was when I heard that the police were trying to pinpoint telephone conversations made in the resort that I decided to get in touch about what
I had heard. Signed

[John]

Always remembering Sadie that when you visited Block 5, the trees surrounding the car park adjacent to 5a had been removed.  Back in 2007 you couldn't see the car park for the trees.

The unlit north side of the Ocean Club Garden apartments as they were in 2007 at the time of Madeleine's disappearance with trees almost obscuring the car park.




Below, the same view now with the trees removed and a floodlight fitted on the wall of the apartments between the first and second floors.  Quite a difference!

[Robittybob1]

It is difficult to explain Rob .... and I am not good at explanations

In order to understand it you need to be using G Earth, both as is and street scene and be referring to photos shown on here a couple of months or so ago



These three balconies were built straight off the stair wells.  They were attached to no-ones specific apartment and a cheeky person could easily have snuck up there (for a fag and a watch?).

Mckenzie reported a suspicious pile of fag ends on the one pertinent balcony, but seems nothing was investigated from his report.  He calls the balconies "public" balconies, altho i doubt that the general public normally used them.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm

-snip-
On the day of our departure we had to move out of our apartment and Mark Warner gave us another to use during the day until we left.

It was across the road from the McCann's apartment and the public balcony overlooked the side of their building and the road. You could actually see the front and back of the building from that view point. I noticed on the balcony that there was a pile of cigarette butts as if there had been someone stood there for some time smoking. I thought that was odd , and it could have been someone watching the McCann's apartment to monitor their comings and goings.
It was when I heard that the police were trying to pinpoint telephone conversations made in the resort that I decided to get in touch about what
I had heard. Signed

Since he says public balcony I accept your case on this issue.  Thanks.