Author Topic: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.  (Read 167342 times)

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Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #390 on: November 04, 2017, 12:04:54 AM »
Actually it isnt that high if one were to climb over the railing and drop down.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.0888493,-8.7309898,3a,37.5y,143.82h,96.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqayNA_jzaeH82WsDA7KYyA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
But thinking about it John, Mrs Fenn says that she tried to catch his foot as he went out thru the window, so it sounds as tho he either jumped on to the street or he escaped thru a window opening onto the landing within the building but outside the flat itself.

Nigh night

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #391 on: November 04, 2017, 12:11:49 AM »
The window is next to Pamela Fenn's front door. Easy to access and exit. He wasn't spiderman  @)(++(*

« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 12:15:51 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Innominate

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #392 on: November 04, 2017, 08:06:32 AM »
1. Wasn't Kate in the apartment just before 10.30pm using her phone, just prior to the alleged crying incident?
2. Why would potential burglars have scarpered if they'd gained entry & knew the children had been left on their own? It would make no sense to return in case the children were subsequently being supervised after having been upset.
Alternatively, if no entry had been gained, how would the potential burglars have known the children were on their own?

It is, obviously, not possible to be certain on the points you raise, but, in response I believe a possible counter argument would be:

Point 1)

The phone pings do not locate a phone location accurately, and even if they did they do not prove the owner was near the phone.
A member of the bar staff, Salcedas, indicates the Tapas group left at a time consistent with Mrs Fenn's statement.
He makes a sworn statement: "When asked, he said that they would normally stay at the restaurant until 23.30 - 24.00, although some of them would leave earlier, at about 23.00."
Mrs Fenn also indicated her statement could be corroborated.

None of this is certain, but I'm taking the view that, on the balance of probabilities, the crying occurred and it was Madeleine crying; obviously others may take a different view.

Point 2)

This is a good point.
My belief is that the burglars may have had some knowledge (possibly inside knowledge) or belief that the adults were away from the apartments during the evening, and so they could safely target the apartments.
They were then surprised by the crying and scarpered; they realised later (again possibly with inside knowledge) that the children were being left alone.

====

The outline theory is just an extension of the burglary theory, to allow time for planning/surveillance before the actual alledged adbuction.
In other words, instead of the "burglary gone wrong" spontaneous act, there was a planned abduction by local low-level criminals who saw an opportunity.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #393 on: November 04, 2017, 09:20:08 AM »
It is, obviously, not possible to be certain on the points you raise, but, in response I believe a possible counter argument would be:

Point 1)

The phone pings do not locate a phone location accurately, and even if they did they do not prove the owner was near the phone.
A member of the bar staff, Salcedas, indicates the Tapas group left at a time consistent with Mrs Fenn's statement.
He makes a sworn statement: "When asked, he said that they would normally stay at the restaurant until 23.30 - 24.00, although some of them would leave earlier, at about 23.00."
Mrs Fenn also indicated her statement could be corroborated.

None of this is certain, but I'm taking the view that, on the balance of probabilities, the crying occurred and it was Madeleine crying; obviously others may take a different view.

Point 2)

This is a good point.
My belief is that the burglars may have had some knowledge (possibly inside knowledge) or belief that the adults were away from the apartments during the evening, and so they could safely target the apartments.
They were then surprised by the crying and scarpered; they realised later (again possibly with inside knowledge) that the children were being left alone.

====

The outline theory is just an extension of the burglary theory, to allow time for planning/surveillance before the actual alledged adbuction.
In other words, instead of the "burglary gone wrong" spontaneous act, there was a planned abduction by local low-level criminals who saw an opportunity.

Or there was no abduction at all.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #394 on: November 04, 2017, 12:49:46 PM »
The window is next to Pamela Fenn's front door. Easy to access and exit. He wasn't spiderman  @)(++(*


Somehiow I dont think that was the way that he escaped

I have three reasons for this
1)  it seems that the window was opened ready for escape if he left as promptly as appears.  Mrs Fenn  would have noticed that window open as she approached the front door

2)  So close as that to the front door for an escape route seems a non runner to me, cos Mrs Fenn might have come back with friends

3)  If that window was open with its relatively easy access, why would there have been thoughts that entrance was facilitated by a key being used in the front door

I think the intruder must have jumped straight out into the street.  Phwew!

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #395 on: November 04, 2017, 01:07:12 PM »
Somehiow I dont think that was the way that he escaped

I have three reasons for this
1)  it seems that the window was opened ready for escape if he left as promptly as appears.  Mrs Fenn  would have noticed that window open as she approached the front door

2)  So close as that to the front door for an escape route seems a non runner to me, cos Mrs Fenn might have come back with friends

3)  If that window was open with its relatively easy access, why would there have been thoughts that entrance was facilitated by a key being used in the front door

I think the intruder must have jumped straight out into the street.  Phwew!
What a thicko I am.

Almost certainly, he scrambled out of the (?other bedroom) window straight on to the slightly sloping roof of the  Mccanns kitchen, and from there jumped down to the area in front of their front door .... or even straight into the street.   It would be easy peasy to do that

IMO

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #396 on: November 04, 2017, 01:18:21 PM »
The window is next to Pamela Fenn's front door. Easy to access and exit. He wasn't spiderman  @)(++(*




lol Yeah even spidy would have  a job on his hands!  Not a scuff mark or spider web to be found...oh speaking of spide webs...

So, looking at this picture and knowing the car park was almost empty, why would a burglar hurry along a street carrying a child, knowing people were in the street where someone could get a view of him, and not just dump the child in the waiting car with engine running  ready to zoom off...
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline John

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #397 on: November 04, 2017, 01:35:11 PM »
But thinking about it John, Mrs Fenn says that she tried to catch his foot as he went out thru the window, so it sounds as tho he either jumped on to the street or he escaped thru a window opening onto the landing within the building but outside the flat itself.

Nigh night

That would make sense too Sadie.   I agree with Pathfinder's observation, by window she most probably meant the arched opening beside her main entrance.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 01:37:20 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #398 on: November 04, 2017, 01:38:48 PM »

lol Yeah even spidy would have  a job on his hands!  Not a scuff mark or spider web to be found...oh speaking of spide webs...

So, looking at this picture and knowing the car park was almost empty, why would a burglar hurry along a street carrying a child, knowing people were in the street where someone could get a view of him, and not just dump the child in the waiting car with engine running  ready to zoom off...

Ideas for this have been covered thoroughly.  Just a theory but definitely a possibility.

I suggest thta you read back for the last couple of days or so

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #399 on: November 04, 2017, 01:49:20 PM »
I'm Sorry Sadie, this thread and your theory are not a real believable deliverable with regards to an achievable outcome to 'catching an alleged burglar/abductor'

I know you put a lot of work into it and duly believe in it, but you have to understand people will challenge it as I have done and not with malice intent. And they will also challenge the parents story.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 11:14:03 PM by John »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Alice Purjorick

"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #401 on: November 04, 2017, 02:26:55 PM »
Jumping down 1.7 metres is enough to break your leg.

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-01x-physics-i-classical-mechanics-with-an-experimental-focus-fall-2002/study-materials/jumping.pdf.

not to mention the scattered milk tray!.

 There may have been burglars/abductors lurking watching and conniving, to be very cunning indeed, and all that jazz but the thing is IF they were so well organised and it was well planned why TF  would they not just go in through the unlocked door?meh!
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #402 on: November 04, 2017, 02:49:25 PM »
That would make sense too Sadie.   I agree with Pathfinder's observation, by window she most probably meant the arched opening beside her main entrance.
Think that arch led onto the landing where other flats had their front doors.

No, I am almost cetain that he left by the window that opened right onto the slightly sloping roof of what was later the Mccanns kitchen.  He could almost step straight on to it from the window cill and then jump down onto the patch of land in front of 5A front door.  So easy

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #403 on: November 04, 2017, 02:55:09 PM »
I'm Sorry Sadie, this thread and your theory are not a real believable deliverable with regards to an achievable outcome to 'catching an alleged burglar/abductor'

I know you put a lot of work into it and duly believe in it, but you have to understand people will challenge it as I have done and not with malice intent. And they will also challenge the parents story.
I am happy for people to challenge it, BUT THEY MUST READ IT FIRST.

Sensible challenging of theories helps them move on; it helps refine them

Challenge for all your worth but make sure that you have read and understood what i have said and then makle sensible suggestions based upon thought, if you would ......  TY