Author Topic: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.  (Read 167334 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #465 on: November 12, 2017, 12:00:57 AM »
No need to apologise. Maybe I am wrong & DCI Redwood did mean that Tannerman was actually Crecheman - but Amaral's insistence that Tannerman was heading from east to west makes me believe otherwise.

If he had meant that he would have said so, Misty, and he very clearly did not say anything of the kind.  The misinterpretation is entirely mine biased by my opinion, not what the DCI actually said.

I think it is important not to put words into people's mouths and that is exactly what I did without any sort of caveat.
Just sloppy!
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #466 on: November 12, 2017, 01:09:40 AM »
If he had meant that he would have said so, Misty, and he very clearly did not say anything of the kind.  The misinterpretation is entirely mine biased by my opinion, not what the DCI actually said.

I think it is important not to put words into people's mouths and that is exactly what I did without any sort of caveat.
Just sloppy!

It is possible that Tannerman was an accomplice in the crime of abduction rather than the actual abductor. The abductor was the person who, without lawful excuse, (forcefully) took Madeleine from her bed & the apartment without her consent. MOO.

Anyway, back to Sadie's theory.
I do not agree with the positioning of the getaway vehicle in Block 6 south car park as the man seen carrying the child made no attempt to turn down into Rua DFG Martins. IMO a better location would have been in Block 6 north car park, or further along by Block 1.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 01:15:20 AM by misty »

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #467 on: November 12, 2017, 02:12:03 AM »
No need to apologise. Maybe I am wrong & DCI Redwood did mean that Tannerman was actually Crecheman - but Amaral's insistence that Tannerman was heading from east to west makes me believe otherwise.

 @)(++(*
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #468 on: November 12, 2017, 02:55:04 AM »
It is possible that Tannerman was an accomplice in the crime of abduction rather than the actual abductor. The abductor was the person who, without lawful excuse, (forcefully) took Madeleine from her bed & the apartment without her consent. MOO.

Anyway, back to Sadie's theory.
I do not agree with the positioning of the getaway vehicle in Block 6 south car park as the man seen carrying the child made no attempt to turn down into Rua DFG Martins. IMO a better location would have been in Block 6 north car park, or further along by Block 1.

Sadie's notion that something untoward occurred (maybe Gerry and Jez?) which interfered with a pre-planned pick up has a ring to it for me.  I don't think openly carrying a child for any distance at all would ever figure in any forward planning so the vehicle would have to be parked as close by as possible and the route to it fairly unobtrusive and well known to the carrier.
Perhaps even a back-up vehicle?  Although further from the target than Sadie's suggestion, the locations you've indicated are only seconds away and as we have seen before the hue and cry, nobody would have paid a blind bit of notice to a man walking the streets while carrying a child.

There was quite a bit of pedestrian traffic coming and going which couldn't be legislated for, as well as people we know of sitting on balconies despite the chill, and probably a few we don't know of.
So all in all a risky venture and if Tannerman was the abductor, without Jane he would have accomplished it sight unseen.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #469 on: November 12, 2017, 07:54:08 AM »
It is possible that Tannerman was an accomplice in the crime of abduction rather than the actual abductor. The abductor was the person who, without lawful excuse, (forcefully) took Madeleine from her bed & the apartment without her consent. MOO.

Anyway, back to Sadie's theory.
I do not agree with the positioning of the getaway vehicle in Block 6 south car park as the man seen carrying the child made no attempt to turn down into Rua DFG Martins. IMO a better location would have been in Block 6 north car park, or further along by Block 1.

So you think that Tannerman, who OG fragged as not of interest, OG still think is an accomplice?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline barrier

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #470 on: November 12, 2017, 08:59:40 AM »
So you think that Tannerman, who OG fragged as not of interest, OG still think is an accomplice?

Have OG made a further appeal for this blighter to come forward? they appealed for info regarding the Smith sighting.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline barrier

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #471 on: November 12, 2017, 09:01:53 AM »
Where does he say that Tannerman & Crecheman are one & the same person?

I never claimed he did,but of more importance imo he did not and has never asked for any one else to come forward regarding this.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Innominate

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #472 on: November 12, 2017, 09:48:52 AM »
I never claimed he did,but of more importance imo he did not and has never asked for any one else to come forward regarding this.

Crecheman was in area according to OG. He must have been in the area at the same time, otherwise his testimony would be useless.

IMO Crecheman must have ruled out the Tanner sighting as far as OG are concerned.

The question is why?

Are Crecheman and Tannerman the same? Or did Crecheman see someone who OG believe to be Tannerman? If so there would be another witness in the area, who's identity is not known. Or, perhaps, OG think Tanner is mistaken and the witness testimony from Crecheman is sufficient for them to be confident there was no abduction at that time.

Not clear IMO.

Offline barrier

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #473 on: November 12, 2017, 09:59:18 AM »
Crecheman was in area according to OG. He must have been in the area at the same time, otherwise his testimony would be useless.

IMO Crecheman must have ruled out the Tanner sighting as far as OG are concerned.

The question is why?

Are Crecheman and Tannerman the same? Or did Crecheman see someone who OG believe to be Tannerman? If so there would be another witness in the area, who's identity is not known. Or, perhaps, OG think Tanner is mistaken and the witness testimony from Crecheman is sufficient for them to be confident there was no abduction at that time.

Not clear IMO.

Officers from OG and indeed the PJ need to be clear about it,in the unlikely event that an alleged abductor is brought to court these people will be important prosecution witness's.imo.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Innominate

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #474 on: November 12, 2017, 10:13:03 AM »
Officers from OG and indeed the PJ need to be clear about it,in the unlikely event that an alleged abductor is brought to court these people will be important prosecution witness's.imo.

I'm sure OG are clear. It is just not clear to an outside observer IMO.

Offline misty

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #475 on: November 12, 2017, 11:42:35 AM »
If the 9.15pm sighting had been totally eliminated, the Met's clock would have had to be put back to 8.30pm. Instead, DCI Redwood said that "more importantly" events between 9.15pm & 10pm took on a greater  significance.


Offline barrier

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #476 on: November 12, 2017, 11:45:15 AM »
If the 9.15pm sighting had been totally eliminated, the Met's clock would have had to be put back to 8.30pm. Instead, DCI Redwood said that "more importantly" events between 9.15pm & 10pm took on a greater  significance.

Why earlier? Gerry said he saw Madeleine at circa 9:05pm.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline misty

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #477 on: November 12, 2017, 11:50:47 AM »
Why earlier? Gerry said he saw Madeleine at circa 9:05pm.

He saw Madeleine sleeping on top of her bed in a darkened room. Would he have known if she was still alive at that time? What about the gap between 9.05 & 9.15pm?

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #478 on: November 12, 2017, 01:22:17 PM »
Sadie's notion that something untoward occurred (maybe Gerry and Jez?) which interfered with a pre-planned pick up has a ring to it for me.  I don't think openly carrying a child for any distance at all would ever figure in any forward planning so the vehicle would have to be parked as close by as possible and the route to it fairly unobtrusive and well known to the carrier.
Perhaps even a back-up vehicle?  Although further from the target than Sadie's suggestion, the locations you've indicated are only seconds away and as we have seen before the hue and cry, nobody would have paid a blind bit of notice to a man walking the streets while carrying a child.

There was quite a bit of pedestrian traffic coming and going which couldn't be legislated for, as well as people we know of sitting on balconies despite the chill, and probably a few we don't know of.
So all in all a risky venture and if Tannerman was the abductor, without Jane he would have accomplished it sight unseen.
What i think, altho I accept that it might not be right, is that Tannerman never intended to walk anywhere on the open streets carrying Madeleine.

My theory is that they had worked out the timing pretty accurately.
 
-  Going in and out of the apartment, opening shutters and window and lifting Madeleine, took probably about a minute, maybe less. 
-  The walk for The Watcher/ Getaway driver, which was down block 6 back steps, thru the back garden, thru the garden gate and into the get away vehicle ... and then the drive up to then car park entrance would probably take about the same time .... NORMALLY

But as The Getaway driver started to come off that little car park (opposite Tapas secondary Reception) and started to turn right to go up Rua Francisco Gentils Martins he was suddenly aware of Gerry and Jez in the middle of the very street he had to drive up.  Gerry and Jez aware that  a vehicle was trying to come up the street where they were standing, backed away to the western side of the street by the alleyway

The driver dithered.  Should he brazenly drive past the father of the child they were abducting?   

In the meantime Jane appeared and he further dithered.


Meanwhile Tannerman literally left holding the baby (Madeleine) was getting really anxious.  Why wasn't his getaway vehicle there? .... So he risked walking to the corner to have a look-see.

Jane was almost upon him, so he took a snap decision to carry on walking in the direction he was going.  had he turned around, Jane would have been following him   And after all walking the way he was he could double back to the car park and get-away vehicle via the dimly lit alleyways.


The dithering Getaway driver suddenly saw Tannerman carrying Madeleine appear and Jane was almost upon him, witnessing the abductor

Panicking, he turned tail and drove off down the street in a Southerly direction .... leaving Tannerman, carrying Madeleine, in the lurch

I know that this may not be what happened, but it could well be .

Everything, including all the points that I made a few days ago, fits perfectly.
 
It also explains why Gerry thought that he chatted with Jez on the other side of the street. 
Because initially he made the conscious effort to cross the street, meeting Jez in the middle /Eastern side of the street.  That changed when the getaway vehicle swung out causing them to back to the western side of the street, which Jane and Jez remember



I think that Jane was able to pick up some colour, enabled by the light that the getaway drivers vehicle headlights produced.  The street lights being sodium were virtually monochromatic,and gave out a sickly yellow glow.  Other than yellow, they showed little colour on their own

Jane was able to recognize some colour, so I would suggest that the getaway vehicles headlights flicked across Tannerman and helped her do that.


AIMHO

Note to moderators:  The above is Sadie's theory as to what may have occurred.

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #479 on: November 12, 2017, 01:41:06 PM »
I'm picking up on this point. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am just throwing some counter arguments into the mix.

David Payne walked back, with KMcC, after the alarm was raised.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

sniped section:

It was a face of someone's child who had been taken and you know and very clearly said she's gone, she's you know, she's gone, you know and there was a disbelief on our face you know ah you know you must be mistaken, what, and then you know just looking at her we just all err left the table, rushed over to her and as we were walking up towards the flat she said err you know they've taken her and it was, you know, and I know there's been a controversy about what was actually said but you know that is very accurately what had been said. Like I say, as I say you know you could just never forget her face and those words, and err as we were, you know, approaching their apartment I was just saying to Kate,
I said well look how do you know that is the case, and err you know again I, I can't remember the exact words then, but I was very interested in finding what the state of the apartment was like when she'd got there to see who'd left err doors open or etcetera.

-----

Why did KMcC not talk about the window/shutters with David Payne, surely that would be the first thing she would say?

Her first reaction was to search the apartment for MBM, so I don't think that helps to decide the position of the window and shutters.

How does anyone know, for certain, what state the curtains, window and shutters were in. Even David Payne will not commit, and he was one of the first into the apartment.

There was a full moon that night, perhaps someone simply opened one of the curtains to allow extra light into the room. Or slightly opened one of the windows so they could hear if a parent was returning to the front door.

If the window/shutters were not significantly disturbed then I believe the "burglary gone wrong" theory may have problems.

All IMO.

The moon didn't rise until about ten that night.  I have posted official times on here at least twice before .... and IMO such info should be kept in a special "Indesputable Info Section"

At my age I cant keep looking these things up again.  IIRC the moon rose just after 10 pm. 

I seem to remember that it was one day off Full Moon.

#

Please correct me if I have remembered any of the above info incorrectly