Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.

[Alice Purjorick]

"Respective" key means that more than one person had a key. Do you think that Gerry would have said that, given the family were only allocated one key?

That is one interpretation.
Another can be derived from the OED definition of "respective".
 "Belonging or relating separately to each of two or more people or things".

[G-Unit]

IMO it could have been given by Tannerman who stayed outside.    Once he saw that Madeleine was sedated or scooped up by the lifter, I guess.    Signaling could have been by a cigarette  lighter flicked on, a narriow beam torch, a fine laser beam (I think).  I wasn't there so I cant tell you which, but any would work

Have you got any ideas?

This is getting confusing now because the goalposts keep moving.

If someone moved the door, as Gerry testifies, someone was in the apartment before he arrived at 9.05.

On 4th there is no mention of the half open bedroom door; he entered by the front door, looked at the kids, went to the WC and left.
On 10th May he enters by the patio door and now he notices the half open bedroom door. That's why he visually checked that all three children were there. Goes to the WC and leaves.

If Gerry went in by the front door, he would have caught them in the act.
If he used the patio door the watcher would have seen him only as he approached the gate.

If they were sent in immediately after Matthew's listening check, why are they still there?

[Robittybob1]

This is getting confusing now because the goalposts keep moving.

If someone moved the door, as Gerry testifies, someone was in the apartment before he arrived at 9.05.

On 4th there is no mention of the half open bedroom door; he entered by the front door, looked at the kids, went to the WC and left.
On 10th May he enters by the patio door and now he notices the half open bedroom door. That's why he visually checked that all three children were there. Goes to the WC and leaves.

If Gerry went in by the front door, he would have caught them in the act.
If he used the patio door the watcher would have seen him only as he approached the gate.

If they were sent in immediately after Matthew's listening check, why are they still there?

Good thinking but at each step I think you need to list all the options..  Like you are wrong just to think because the door is half open someone has been in there.  That is not the only option.

[G-Unit]

Good thinking but at each step I think you need to list all the options..  Like you are wrong just to think because the door is half open someone has been in there.  That is not the only option.

So who moved that door three times? Before 9.05, then again before 9.30, then again before 10pm.

[jassi]

It is entirely possible that it didn't really alter much at all and is a red herring.

[pathfinder73]

It's a key to the truth in this case. They were adamant about the changing position of the door.

[Robittybob1]

So who moved that door three times? Before 9.05, then again before 9.30, then again before 10pm.

I think at each point that could be:
1. left at the wrong position by the last person who looked into the kids room.
2. One of the children getting up.
3.  Another person
so is that 27 different combinations of events possible? 3 x 3 x 3 = 27

[jassi]

It's a key to the truth in this case. They were adamant about the changing position of the door.

Only Gerry could be adamant as Matt wouldn't know if it had altered and neither would Kate.

[Robittybob1]

Only Gerry could be adamant as Matt wouldn't know if it had altered and neither would Kate.

It seems that Kate is the only one really concerned about the door position.

[Brietta]

It's a key to the truth in this case. They were adamant about the changing position of the door.

That does not stray too far from the topic concerning Sadie's theory although the fact of the belief in what witnesses have actually said in their statements is nothing if not heartening.

Sadie's theory allows for entry to the apartment and the moving door would appear to substantiate that.  The culmination of the movements was the sudden gust from the open window which caused the door to slam on Kate.
But we only know of the prior movements by collating the statements ... so where did it go from there?

The GNR dogs gave indications which may have tied in with Sadie's theory with a strong scent leading to where a vehicle was parked ... so where did it go from there?

There are numerous accounts of burglars leaving DNA on cigarette ends.
Cigarette butt left at burglary scene leads to arrest of Pawcatuck man
http://www.theday.com/article/20170913/NWS04/170919736
DNA on cigarette butt caught workshop burglar
http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/15592634.DNA_on_cigarette_butt_caught_workshop_burglar/
Burglar caught with DNA from discarded cigarette butt
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/blackburndarwenhyndburnribble/9624170.Burglar_caught_with_DNA_from_discarded_cigarette_butt/
Boynton police catch alleged burglar from DNA left on cigarette butt
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-06-18/news/fl-boynton-beach-cigarette-butt-20140618_1_dna-crime-scene-burglar
Sheffield burglar snared by DNA covered cigarette butt left at scene
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/picture-sheffield-burglar-snared-by-dna-covered-cigarette-butt-left-at-scene-1-8545759
Sadie's theory includes the McCann apartment being watched; one vantage point she identified was the balcony in apartment block six where cigarette ends were found.
Where did that go? ... in this case we do know, they went to the bin.

As far as I would imagine, evidence doesn't come in neatly isolated packages such as  "Headline: a badly told story" Diario of the Noticias:the day after the event.
It comes from carefully collating and following the evidence wherever it may lead.  It didn't hang around the environs of the McCann apartment or perhaps even Luz'
In my opinion Sadie's theory of rapid transfer to a vehicle sounds very likely.

[G-Unit]

That does not stray too far from the topic concerning Sadie's theory although the fact of the belief in what witnesses have actually said in their statements is nothing if not heartening.

Sadie's theory allows for entry to the apartment and the moving door would appear to substantiate that.  The culmination of the movements was the sudden gust from the open window which caused the door to slam on Kate.
But we only know of the prior movements by collating the statements ... so where did it go from there?

The GNR dogs gave indications which may have tied in with Sadie's theory with a strong scent leading to where a vehicle was parked ... so where did it go from there?

There are numerous accounts of burglars leaving DNA on cigarette ends.
Cigarette butt left at burglary scene leads to arrest of Pawcatuck man
http://www.theday.com/article/20170913/NWS04/170919736
DNA on cigarette butt caught workshop burglar
http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/15592634.DNA_on_cigarette_butt_caught_workshop_burglar/
Burglar caught with DNA from discarded cigarette butt
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/blackburndarwenhyndburnribble/9624170.Burglar_caught_with_DNA_from_discarded_cigarette_butt/
Boynton police catch alleged burglar from DNA left on cigarette butt
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-06-18/news/fl-boynton-beach-cigarette-butt-20140618_1_dna-crime-scene-burglar
Sheffield burglar snared by DNA covered cigarette butt left at scene
https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/picture-sheffield-burglar-snared-by-dna-covered-cigarette-butt-left-at-scene-1-8545759
Sadie's theory includes the McCann apartment being watched; one vantage point she identified was the balcony in apartment block six where cigarette ends were found.
Where did that go? ... in this case we do know, they went to the bin.

As far as I would imagine, evidence doesn't come in neatly isolated packages such as  "Headline: a badly told story" Diario of the Noticias:the day after the event.
It comes from carefully collating and following the evidence wherever it may lead.  It didn't hang around the environs of the McCann apartment or perhaps even Luz'
In my opinion Sadie's theory of rapid transfer to a vehicle sounds very likely.

How does Sadie's theory account for three door movements then?

[pathfinder73]

Yeah the 5 degrees door changed 

OPRAH - "So let's go back to that night, 9:05, you were all at dinner, you you made the check at 9, so you're checking every half hour."

GERRY- "It was actually 9 o' clock, the whole group were in the restaurant and one of our friends Matt he went up and checked his daughter and as he came back I went up to check on Madeleine and the twins and I went into the apartment and we were really just checking to see if they're crying and the door..."

OPRAH- "Checking to see if there was any crying."

GERRY- "Yeah, and that was it and the door was open more, I'd left it just ajar, about 5 degrees and we checked on them before we left and they were sound asleep."

OPRAH- "Which door, you thought..."

GERRY- "This was the bedroom went..."

OPRAH- "This was about 9:05"

GERRY- "Just yeah, I went outside in a minute and it was one of the other guests, he was coming the other way, but he didn't actually cross the road to chat to me and we were sort of chatting for about 5 minutes and during that Jane went to check on her children, and it was at that point she was just past us going up to the corner and she saw a man carrying a young girl with, you know, she described independently the pyjamas that Madeleine had on and she didn't see the child's face, she didn't, you know, she saw me there, she'd seen that I'd just been in the apartment and at the time she thought there was something odd but it didn't raise enough alarm bells to challenge the person then"

[misty]

Did Matt move the door/leave it ajar again during his check or did he leave it as he found it - open over 45° - meaning there were only 2 door moves?

[Robittybob1]

I think at each point that could be:
1. left at the wrong position by the last person who looked into the kids room.
2. One of the children getting up.
3.  Another person
so is that 9 different combinations of events possible? 3 x 3  = 9 (too many combinations for the finding at at Kate's check is known).

Only applicable at Matt's check but thinking it through that becomes " he leave it as he found it - open over 45°"  Or option 1

[Lace]

That was the first time in the flat for Matt. There were slats open that explains the streetlight next to the car park entrance shining in.

The outside blinds were closed with only two or three slats open. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Matt didn't see curtains moving or feel any draught so no window was open at 9:30. No abductor before 9:30 explains the open window.

"I was there to check, erm, no, no funny sort of smells, no sort of funny draughts, no sort of funny sort of noises, no, erm, nothing that I can think of for that. I mean, it was a complete just a shock out of the blue when, you know, I'd been in and then suddenly somebody's saying Madeleine's missing, there was nothing that made me think, oh'."

078 'The curtains were drawn and weren't blowing around''

Reply 'Yeah'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

So there were no gusts of wind when Matthew did his check,   all that means is that the wind hadn't picked up then nothing more,   he did a quick glance in and was gone.   Though he did say the room was lighter he thought it was the moon.    I beleive the blind and window were open when he did his check.