Author Topic: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.  (Read 167336 times)

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Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #945 on: November 29, 2017, 12:17:54 AM »
There was only one lamp standard capable of shining light on the front of 5a and that lamp was located adjacent to the car park entrance.  Difficulty is, we don't know if that particular lamp was even lit the night Madeleine disappeared.

There is an entire thread dedicated to the ambient lighting and its effect on the children's bedroom window.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6165.msg228833#msg228833


Ah, thank you for that John.

It is a more recent photo and you can see that there appears to have been some pruning of the LH tree on one side cos' it is lob sided, but even so no, or little light would reach the window of 5A.

If you adjust the image on GE to the date 6/22/2007 (about 7 weeks after Madeleine went) you will see just how enveloped the street lamp was.  I doubt any light would get through that density of leaves, apart from maybe tiny "freckles" of light as the gusts hit the trees.   The trees appear to be some sort of willow or similar.  They have kind of fonds that droop down and move in the wind.


[To adjust the date of your GE image find the "clock" on the top white bar and click on it.  Adjust the slider to the date you want ]

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #946 on: November 29, 2017, 12:26:17 AM »
So not the broken one then, John.
Perhaps that one covered the door recess?

The addition of the spotlight and security railings on the window and side gate seem to indicate that a belated risk assessment suggested the benefits.
That was the talk early on Brietta.  That the light in the porchway to 5A was broken at the time.  I seem to remember talk about it being physically broken as opposed to the bulb had conked out, but it was a long time ago.

Perhaps others will remember the details better than me.

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #947 on: November 29, 2017, 12:28:41 AM »
Not to mention the almost complete removal of the lovely trees.
Gawd, what a sin.

I love trees ... was a guardian of a woodland at one time

Offline John

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #948 on: November 29, 2017, 12:38:39 AM »
That was the talk early on Brietta.  That the light in the porchway to 5A was broken at the time.  I seem to remember talk about it being physically broken as opposed to the bulb had conked out, but it was a long time ago.

Perhaps others will remember the details better than me.

It might have been sabotaged
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #949 on: November 29, 2017, 01:19:24 AM »
It might have been sabotaged
Exactly. 

It may have been deliberately put out of action

Offline misty

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #950 on: November 30, 2017, 12:41:10 AM »
With the caveat abduction is a theory and not proven fact (and there are other theories - e.g. tracker dog trail indicating w&w) I would speculate as follows (briefly):

1. If the shutter was pretty much fully raised with the window and curtain open then I would speculate the following scenario:
a) the front door was double locked and the intruder did not have a key
b) MBM was the target
c) the intruder entered via the sliding patio door, I would have expected the patio door to be secured by an intruder
d) the intruder may have subdued MBM - e.g. binding arms/legs, etc.
e) the intruder had an accomplice
f) MBM was passed through the window to the accomplice, who took MBM away possibly without the intruder

g) the possibility is, given lack of fibre evidence on the window frame, that the intruder exited out through the sliding patio door, leaving the patio door unlocked

h) this may indicate the intruder was an insider who had to return to work

===

2.  If the shutter is was not disturbed much then I speculate that the exit point was the front door, but there was a desire to "check the coast is clear" or look out for a getaway vehicle.

But I freely admit the above is speculative at best!

All IMO, etc.

Points a-g I pretty much agree with, apart from the speculation about the front door key. A plan conceived prior to the arrival of the McCanns may have included the key as a necessity.
If the apartment had been under surveillance then a potential abductor would surely have seen which door the McCanns were using. A quick check on the patio door would have shown that it was the easiest point of entry and a watcher could have observed from the alley or the garden of 5B. Exit could have been either via the same door or out the front, depending on the lock and a getaway vehicle anywhere out front.

I'm not sure about the "insider" part. I'd more readily accept that if the motive had been simple burglary and there had been signs of a disturbance inside 5A. The unseen/unheard removal of Madeleine from the apartment took a greater degree of planning/risk with an unknown motive but imo much boils down to the question "who knew?"

Offline misty

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #951 on: November 30, 2017, 01:45:03 AM »
FYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hd7IOiOUc4

That still doesn't show how to open a few slats, Alice. Given all the equipment & expertise needed for installation, I think I'll leave any prospective window shutter issues to a handyman (no links to James Taylor, please).

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #952 on: November 30, 2017, 12:33:51 PM »
That still doesn't show how to open a few slats, Alice. Given all the equipment & expertise needed for installation, I think I'll leave any prospective window shutter issues to a handyman (no links to James Taylor, please).

There is one very good reason for that, which folk don't seem to wish to embrace.

I don't dig James Taylor; more into Elmore James or Taylor la Fargue meself.... 8(>((
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #953 on: November 30, 2017, 01:51:03 PM »
That still doesn't show how to open a few slats, Alice. Given all the equipment & expertise needed for installation, I think I'll leave any prospective window shutter issues to a handyman (no links to James Taylor, please).

When you pull on the strap, tension is applied to the top of the shutters first. Tension opens the slats first, because they are stored in the housing with the slats in the open position. Only when all the slats are open does the shutter as a whole begin to rise. So, pulling on the strap opens the slats at the top first, and you can stop pulling and leave it like that if you wish.
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Offline misty

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #954 on: November 30, 2017, 04:57:00 PM »
When you pull on the strap, tension is applied to the top of the shutters first. Tension opens the slats first, because they are stored in the housing with the slats in the open position. Only when all the slats are open does the shutter as a whole begin to rise. So, pulling on the strap opens the slats at the top first, and you can stop pulling and leave it like that if you wish.

I think the shutter works on the opposite principle to your comment and the slats can be opened when the shutter has been lowered & then tension decreased.  (Alice????)
https://www.weru.uk/roller-shutters/

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #955 on: November 30, 2017, 06:06:31 PM »
I think the shutter works on the opposite principle to your comment and the slats can be opened when the shutter has been lowered & then tension decreased.  (Alice????)
https://www.weru.uk/roller-shutters/

I have used wooden ones before. The shutters are lowered using gravity.  To lower them when fully raised you pull the strap out, then let the top part go into the housing. You keep doing this until the bottom of the blind touches the window sill. At that point some slats may be open, but repeating the strap movement will close everything.

To raise them you pull the strap out then let the lower part go into the housing. At first the bottom of the blind doesn't move, the slats do and they open, starting at the top. Keep pulling and after all the slats are open the blind begins to rise and goes right up.

Ratcheting in the box which the blind goes into 'freeze' it into whatever position it's in when you stop pulling on the strap.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #956 on: November 30, 2017, 08:20:45 PM »
I think the shutter works on the opposite principle to your comment and the slats can be opened when the shutter has been lowered & then tension decreased.  (Alice????)
https://www.weru.uk/roller-shutters/

I have lost track of what is being asked    8)><(.
First off don't conflate roller shutters and venetian blinds.They are totally different animals which have different purposes, are of differing design and operate differently; apart from that they are the same  ?{)(**
The "curtain" of a roller shutter has more in common with a roll top bread bin (remember those) than a venetian blind. [links to both below]
http://www.barnitts.co.uk/products/details/10968.html?adid=25440&aditem=10968&gref=44650200193
https://www.luxaflex.co.uk/products/venetian-blinds/?gclid=CjwKCAiA9f7QBRBpEiwApLGUiqMG9EhiBgjLlQw8fSrJ6UHdQUdHnUy_w9jQLYrv3Q_LjQfFhf506xoCvSAQAvD_BwE
On a roller shutter curtain the top of one lath is fixed to the bottom of the lath above it using metal pins or a crimped construction which slide together a bit like hooking and locking the fingers of each hand together[see System 2000 link below]. The two laths cannot be separated except by force or disassembly. There will be some free movement between the two laths in the vertical plane due to manufacturing and fitting tolerances this is called backlash. In the case of a roller shutter the collective backlash[free movement] will be taken out as the curtain lowers on the bottom stop. The curtain can be raised any amount you like using the  proper method or CDA. If you try any other method you need to jam the curtain at the height you need.

http://www.system2000group.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/SBizhub-13072209280-page-001.jpg


"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline misty

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #957 on: November 30, 2017, 08:44:40 PM »
I have lost track of what is being asked    8)><(.
First off don't conflate roller shutters and venetian blinds.They are totally different animals which have different purposes, are of differing design and operate differently; apart from that they are the same  ?{)(**
The "curtain" of a roller shutter has more in common with a roll top bread bin (remember those) than a venetian blind. [links to both below]
http://www.barnitts.co.uk/products/details/10968.html?adid=25440&aditem=10968&gref=44650200193
https://www.luxaflex.co.uk/products/venetian-blinds/?gclid=CjwKCAiA9f7QBRBpEiwApLGUiqMG9EhiBgjLlQw8fSrJ6UHdQUdHnUy_w9jQLYrv3Q_LjQfFhf506xoCvSAQAvD_BwE
On a roller shutter curtain the top of one lath is fixed to the bottom of the lath above it using metal pins or a crimped construction which slide together a bit like hooking and locking the fingers of each hand together[see System 2000 link below]. The two laths cannot be separated except by force or disassembly. There will be some free movement between the two laths in the vertical plane due to manufacturing and fitting tolerances this is called backlash. In the case of a roller shutter the collective backlash[free movement] will be taken out as the curtain lowers on the bottom stop. The curtain can be raised any amount you like using the  proper method or CDA. If you try any other method you need to jam the curtain at the height you need.

http://www.system2000group.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/SBizhub-13072209280-page-001.jpg

Yeah but no but.....I understand the slats are vertical when raised up around the roller. All I was trying to establish was how they could be partially vented (photo of bedroom window showed slats open at top rather than bottom as I had previously thought). So you lower the shutter to the desired level via the ratchet then release the tension to slightly tilt the slats, a process which starts at the top slat. Is that right? If not....  (^&&


Offline jassi

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #958 on: November 30, 2017, 09:19:28 PM »
From the diagrams shown, it doesn't look as if that sort of shutter tilts at all. All the slats are interlocked  and do not tilt open like a Venetian blind
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #959 on: November 30, 2017, 11:24:05 PM »
Yeah but no but.....I understand the slats are vertical when raised up around the roller. All I was trying to establish was how they could be partially vented (photo of bedroom window showed slats open at top rather than bottom as I had previously thought). So you lower the shutter to the desired level via the ratchet then release the tension to slightly tilt the slats, a process which starts at the top slat. Is that right? If not....  (^&&

The laths are retained at the sides in vertical guides which run the full vertical length of the aperture less or more. There is therefore no angular movement of the laths.
I confess to having the advantage here in that I first worked with roller shutters the year Gerry McCann was born so had to work out what they were designed for and how they actually operated rather than did they fit some preconceived idea that fitted a particular narrative.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey