Author Topic: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.  (Read 167342 times)

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Offline Brietta

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #960 on: December 01, 2017, 12:25:00 AM »
Yeah but no but.....I understand the slats are vertical when raised up around the roller. All I was trying to establish was how they could be partially vented (photo of bedroom window showed slats open at top rather than bottom as I had previously thought). So you lower the shutter to the desired level via the ratchet then release the tension to slightly tilt the slats, a process which starts at the top slat. Is that right? If not....  (^&&


I think the controversy which has arisen regarding the shutter is that it was mistakenly assumed that the shutters were 'security' when they were down causing the McCanns to assume they had been forced ... and that it was mistakenly assumed they could not be raised from outside.
We know better now.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 12:30:38 AM by Brietta »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #961 on: December 01, 2017, 01:23:12 AM »

I think the controversy which has arisen regarding the shutter is that it was mistakenly assumed that the shutters were 'security' when they were down causing the McCanns to assume they had been forced ... and that it was mistakenly assumed they could not be raised from outside.
We know better now.
@Misty
That photo shows the top portion of the shutters partial opened to let some light in with the bottom half still closed.
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Offline misty

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #962 on: December 01, 2017, 01:32:12 AM »
@Misty
That photo shows the top portion of the shutters partial opened to let some light in with the bottom half still closed.

It all goes back to the comment Innominate made about the possibility of the shutter not having been raised at all & Kate having false memory.
What I have deduced from all the shutter talk is the slats would have to be virtually all open for anyone inside the apartment to see out into the car park as the slats on the shutter open from the top down. That would have let quite a lot of streetlight into the apartment but, more importantly, I think it would have been noticeable to anyone walking through the car park

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #963 on: December 01, 2017, 07:00:15 AM »
It all goes back to the comment Innominate made about the possibility of the shutter not having been raised at all & Kate having false memory.
What I have deduced from all the shutter talk is the slats would have to be virtually all open for anyone inside the apartment to see out into the car park as the slats on the shutter open from the top down. That would have let quite a lot of streetlight into the apartment but, more importantly, I think it would have been noticeable to anyone walking through the car park
Maybe but why would anyone remember that? To get enough wind to blow the curtains you would need the shutters up and the window open.  Even if the window was open and the shutters just with the slats open I doubt if the draft would be sufficient, but only IMO.
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #964 on: December 01, 2017, 07:58:32 AM »
It all goes back to the comment Innominate made about the possibility of the shutter not having been raised at all & Kate having false memory.
What I have deduced from all the shutter talk is the slats would have to be virtually all open for anyone inside the apartment to see out into the car park as the slats on the shutter open from the top down. That would have let quite a lot of streetlight into the apartment but, more importantly, I think it would have been noticeable to anyone walking through the car park

Gerry said;

The outside blinds were closed with only two or three slats open
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

So that would be the top two or three. I don't think anyone would have noticed from the car park if all the slats were open because, it seems, no-one noticed when the shutter was almost fully raised.

the external blinds almost fully raised,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #965 on: December 01, 2017, 08:10:31 AM »
Gerry said;

The outside blinds were closed with only two or three slats open
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

So that would be the top two or three. I don't think anyone would have noticed from the car park if all the slats were open because, it seems, no-one noticed when the shutter was almost fully raised.

the external blinds almost fully raised,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm
"When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment."  So Gerry confirms seeing what Kate says she found.
Slats seem to be the gaps and blinds are the whole component
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Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #966 on: December 01, 2017, 09:43:38 AM »
It all goes back to the comment Innominate made about the possibility of the shutter not having been raised at all & Kate having false memory.
What I have deduced from all the shutter talk is the slats would have to be virtually all open for anyone inside the apartment to see out into the car park as the slats on the shutter open from the top down. That would have let quite a lot of streetlight into the apartment but, more importantly, I think it would have been noticeable to anyone walking through the car park
Soz misty to disagree.

1)  According to talk at the time, the street lights gave out very little light anyway; they were replaced fairly soon after Madeleine vanished.  The photos you see do not necessarily show how strong the lights actually were, because the intensity of light  depends on how long the exposure was. 
Long exposure = stronger appearing light. 
Lower exposure = weaker appearing light.

Nobody is likely to take a photo that is dead on the correct exposure time ... and a longer exposure will give a better image, so the betting is that the images show the lights stronger than they were.

2)  there were three lights that would have illuminated the car park  and/or the shutters had there been no trees (as in later photos)
i)  The light at the entrance to the car park, but this had its lamp amongst the head and leaves of two trees.  Little light apart from odd fragments would get thru here.
ii)  The light on Tannerman corner  (He was walking towards it).  We have all seen the massive bank of trees at that NE corner of block 5 .  John posted the photo of that in the last couple of days.  No light would have penetrated that
IMO
iii)  The lamp directly opposite the Mccanns patio on Rua Francisco Gentils Martin.   Because the NE corner of the kitchen of 5A blanked light out, that lamp would not illuminate the shutters on Madeleines bedroom nor the front door at all. 

IMO, the only light that would be thrown on the window would be light originating from the Communal hallway into the other Tapas apartments.   There was no direct route for this light but some might have been reflected from the walkway wall.  (the walkway immediately in front of the building).   I doubt that would amount to much. 

3)  Anyone walking across the car park would be doing so at a very definite angle  Pls look at GE and draw a line representing the route someone would have walked to the centre of the block where that walkway started.  As you enter the car park cut the corner as a walker would.  You will find that the angle that the person had to walk meant that his periferal vision did not allow him to see Madeleines window.
After dark, he would be looking where he was going and without deliberately looking around, he would NOT see Madeleines window, nor the front door area.   Most people, after dark look the way they are walking.

Interestingly NOT seeing Madeleines window because his periferal vision dioes not reach that far, applies both coming and going.

I have used Heribertos chart for Periferal vision limits


I really think that so long as an intruder made no noise, with the lack of light and periferal vision situation, he was pretty safe from anyone seeing him outside Madeleines window or outside the front door.  Same as the raised shutter would be out of normal view to Tapas group coming and going.

When I was there in 2010, the car park was dismal and the walkway area after the hallway mentioned above, was even more dismal / dark.  The front door area seemed pitch black


Sorry this is so long.  I doubt anyone will bother to read it !   ^*&&

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #967 on: December 01, 2017, 11:37:17 AM »

I think the controversy which has arisen regarding the shutter is that it was mistakenly assumed that the shutters were 'security' when they were down causing the McCanns to assume they had been forced ... and that it was mistakenly assumed they could not be raised from outside.
We know better now.

Security is a locked window not a shutter LOL. Most houses don't have shutters. They said they left the apartment unlocked.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:43:23 PM by Eleanor »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #968 on: December 01, 2017, 12:00:00 PM »
The picture name was "Light_on_Shutters"  I think this is what it shows rather than some slats open.  I don't understand why you said "the external blinds closed but with some slats open". 
Can you explain your conclusion please?
This picture doesn't show anything Rob, because there was a thick bank of trees between that light and the shutters, completely blocking out all that light.   That light didn't shine on the shutters in 2007. 


Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #969 on: December 01, 2017, 12:08:53 PM »
Maybe but why would anyone remember that? To get enough wind to blow the curtains you would need the shutters up and the window open.  Even if the window was open and the shutters just with the slats open I doubt if the draft would be sufficient, but only IMO.
The unlined curtains were as cheap as chips.  They would have blown very easily, especially if there was another window open in the flat.

After a day hot enough for most to go down to the beach, the flat could have become quite hot.  I see no sign of air conditioning.  Did kate and Gerry leave one of the lounge side windows open?  It was too high for an intruder to use for entry.

A gust and a through draught?

Or maybe someone opened the parents bedroom patio window a little to cool things down, or for a quick getaway ?

Offline barrier

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #970 on: December 01, 2017, 12:28:16 PM »

After a day hot enough for most to go down to the beach, the flat could have become quite hot.  I see no sign of air conditioning.  Did kate and Gerry leave one of the lounge side windows open?  It was too high for an intruder to use for entry.


Any thing above 60 is hot for a brit to go to the beach,far from hot enough to leave a window open though.
Do we have a temp recording for the day in question?
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline pathfinder73

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #972 on: December 01, 2017, 12:45:51 PM »
This picture doesn't show anything Rob, because there was a thick bank of trees between that light and the shutters, completely blocking out all that light.   That light didn't shine on the shutters in 2007.

 If you can prove that no light from any of the street lamps could possibly shine through the two or three open slats on that shutter then do so. Otherwise your complaint is based only on your opinion.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 02:01:49 PM by slartibartfast »
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Offline sadie

Re: Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.
« Reply #973 on: December 01, 2017, 12:58:02 PM »
If you can prove that no light from any of the street lamps could possibly shine through the two or three open slats on that shutter then do so. Otherwise your complaint is based only on your OPINION.

You are a good sleuth and a font of information and I much admire you for that.


Offline barrier

This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.