Sadie's theory, the watcher and a getaway car.

[gilet]

You misunderstood me. Let me put my question in context, you said :


'But the fact remains that the PJ were incompetent in not proving the matter one way or the other.'

So what were the PJ  supposed to prove with some probably weeks old cigarette butts ?

They were supposed to prove whether there was any likelihood that the individual or individuals who had clearly spent time on that balcony overlooking Apartment 5A had any connection to the disappearance. I know that Portugal did not at the time have the benefit of a DNA database at the time but liaison with the UK and with Interpol would have ruled out thousands of suspects, many living on the Algarve.  They may even have been able to prove one way or the other by the simple process of questioning the occupants of that block  about the cigarette remains. Had an occupant stated that he was the smoker then it may well have proved that they were irrelevant to the case. I am simply staggered that you cannot see these possible actions would have been of genuine use in attempting to solve the case of a missing child.

[DCI]

There was another witness that mentioned cigarette butts being in a doorway, I think it was. These were not collected either.
If the butts were weeks old, it doesn't say much for the cleaners, does it?

[Redblossom]

They were supposed to prove whether there was any likelihood that the individual or individuals who had clearly spent time on that balcony overlooking Apartment 5A had any connection to the disappearance.

And how would  that have been possible?Were the police told there was an abnormal amount of fags on the balcony? At the time? No they were not. It wasnt until at least Sept 07 the Brit police passed  this info on. I think they may well  have been swept away by then!

[gilet]

And how would  that have been possible?Were the police told there was an abnormal amount of fags on the balcony? At the time? No they were not. It wasnt until at least Sept 07 the Brit police passed  this info on. I think they may well  have been swept away by then!

You make my point so well.

Are you suggesting that a competent police force would not have included the balcony of an apartment block staircase less than 20 metres from the site where a little child had disappeared in their initial inquiry, that a competent police force would not have considered that the apartment may have been watched in advance of such a disappearance and that a competent police force might not have seen fit to wander across to that balcony that overlooks the apartment so closely? It would appear that you are saying that.

Well I think that is quite ridiculous.  Any competent police force would have checked out that balcony for themselves within hours of the disappearance.  That this police force had to rely on a witness to mention the balcony at all is a sign of gross incompetence.

[Redblossom]

You make my point so well.

Are you suggesting that a competent police force would not have included the balcony of an apartment block staircase less than 20 metres from the site where a little child had disappeared in their initial inquiry, that a competent police force would not have considered that the apartment may have been watched in advance of such a disappearance and that a competent police force might not have seen fit to wander across to that balcony that overlooks the apartment so closely? It would appear that you are saying that.

Well I think that is quite ridiculous.  Any competent police force would have checked out that balcony for themselves within hours of the disappearance.  That this police force had to rely on a witness to mention the balcony at all is a sign of gross incompetence.

In your biased vehement unprofessional opinion

[gilet]

In your biased unprofessional opinion

Which seems to be more alert to the realities of proper police work than your biased unprofessional opinion.

Are you really suggesting for example that the UK police forces would not even consider the possibility of an abductor having been waiting in a sheltered area just 20 metres from an unexplained disappearance of a missing little child? Have you never seen the police in real life (or even on television news) conducting fingertip searches of such crime scenes for even tiny pieces of evidence?

Apparently you haven't. Well I suspect like me, most people have, and will fully understand when I say that it was utterly incompetent of the PJ not to have looked carefully at that secluded balcony which overlooked the McCann apartment just 20 metres away.

[Redblossom]

Which seems to be more alert to the realities of proper police work than your biased unprofessional opinion.

Are you really suggesting for example that the UK police forces would not even consider the possibility of an abductor having been waiting in a sheltered area just 20 metres from an unexplained disappearance of a missing little child? Have you never seen the police in real life (or even on television news) conducting fingertip searches of such crime scenes for even tiny pieces of evidence?

Apparently you haven't. Well I suspect like me, most people have, and will fully understand when I say that it was utterly incompetent of the PJ not to have looked carefully at that secluded balcony which overlooked the McCann apartment just 20 metres away.

yes, you are right of course, hindsight  is SUCH a wonderful thing
 

I suppose Mrs Fenn should have been made a suspect from the off too, she could  have watched the apartment, known their movements and sprung! Love u and leave you dear, had a bellyfull of your awful hostility for one day

[gilet]

yes, you are right of course, hindsight  is SUCH a wonderful thing
 

I suppose Mrs Fenn should have been made a suspect from the off too, she could  have watched the apartment, known their movements and sprung! Love u and leave you dear, had a bellyfull of your awful hostility for one day

Your attempt at sarcasm has failed. As has your attempt to disguise the fact that you are unable to respond to my logical points about police procedure. The inclusion of stupid smileys does not an intelligent post make.

[sadie]

Which seems to be more alert to the realities of proper police work than your biased unprofessional opinion.

Are you really suggesting for example that the UK police forces would not even consider the possibility of an abductor having been waiting in a sheltered area just 20 metres from an unexplained disappearance of a missing little child? Have you never seen the police in real life (or even on television news) conducting fingertip searches of such crime scenes for even tiny pieces of evidence?

Apparently you haven't. Well I suspect like me, most people have, and will fully understand when I say that it was utterly incompetent of the PJ not to have looked carefully at that secluded balcony which overlooked the McCann apartment just 20 metres away.

 
Even closer than 20 metres.  Just over 12 metres to the side gate.  To put it in perspective, that is about the width of a typical small modern 3-4 bedroomed detached house.

There is typically 3cm rain in early May at Lagos nearby, so doubtful the stubs would have remained intact for long.

[faithlilly]

  Redblossom

[faithlilly]

Cite please?

And do you have a cite to prove they are ?

[faithlilly]

Why should I even bother to look?

You made the statement. You provide the answer.

Cite please.

I did not make the first statement that in the UK a fingertip search would be conducted in such a case so cite please ?

[gilet]

To prevent arguments.

Faithlilly made a counter claim to my claim that finger tip searches are carried out in missing person/potential abduction cases in the UK. She stated that they are not carried out in such cases.

She is in fact completely wrong. They are done in the case of missing people and potential abductions not just murders and attacks as she claims.

For example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-55804/Police-widen-search-missing-schoolgirl.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tia-sharp-police-seal-off-grandmothers-1245667

http://metro.co.uk/2008/02/26/police-search-shannon-uncles-home-9879/

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/feb/26/childprotection.ukcrime1

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/317351/FEARS-FOR-MISSING-GEORGIA

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ben-thompson-hunt-specialist-police-2495218

And just for interest one example from the USA.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/search-for-missing-hiker-suspended

[Albertini]

What i find odd, is that, we have these armchair Colombo's slating the PJ's procedures as though they too are professional investigators, yet the real Uk investigators on the ground (Leicestershire Police) at the time of the investigation and the Yard in their review since have never, once, either directly or indirectly sought to trash the investigation.

You'd think that if the investigation was as poor as the supporters of the family make out then Leicestershire Police would have come out and voiced their concerns to the world.

Yet the only time they have commentated on the investigation in a court was to say that there was no evidence the McCann's were not involved.

Something doesn't stack up, does it? If it was that bad why would LP let the PJ get away with "fitting up" Uk nationals in the manner some posters would make us believe?

[stephen25000]

What i find odd, is that, we have these armchair Colombo's slating the PJ's procedures as though they too are professional investigators, yet the real Uk investigators on the ground (Leicestershire Police) at the time of the investigation and the Yard in their review since have never, once, either directly or indirectly sought to trash the investigation.

You'd think that if the investigation was as poor as the supporters of the family make out then Leicestershire Police would have come out and voiced their concerns to the world.

Yet the only time they have commentated on the investigation in a court was to say that there was no evidence the McCann's were not involved.

Something doesn't stack up, does it? If it was that bad why would LP let the PJ get away with "fitting up" Uk nationals in the manner some posters would make us believe?

Succinctly put Albertini.