Author Topic: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated  (Read 2145 times)

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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 09:32:21 AM »
Two interconnected ideas could get missed for example if you read doc 1 and I read Doc 2 and we don't realise that Doc 2 answers issues in Doc 1, therefore allowing important clues to be missed.

It shows how counter productive huge appeals can be. IMHO
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Brietta

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 09:38:52 AM »
Two interconnected ideas could get missed for example if you read doc 1 and I read Doc 2 and we don't realise that Doc 2 answers issues in Doc 1, therefore allowing important clues to be missed.

It would be incredibly easy to miss information filed in the manner of the first investigation:

Quote
Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.

According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.

Quote
Meanwhile, a police source quoted in a Portuguese newspaper said: "There was important material lying all over the place that hadn't been considered by investigators.

"A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting all the papers in order has been a massive task."

Officers have been working round-the-clock to log on to a computer all information relating to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine from the holiday complex in May.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html

The report continues that Rebelo covered all bases by also bringing into his investigation a seasoned murder squad detective Antonio Teixeira, with more than 30 years' experience.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 09:39:16 AM »
That's why HOLMES ans similar systems were introduced.
I investigated another case in New Zealand in many ways it was similar for it too involved a holiday resort with over 1000 guests.   I got hold of the file and I wrote a computer program that looked at each word  and listed all the words used.  It was something like 30,000 different words.  In the end I thought the police should only use specific words in their statements so ideas can be linked easier.  The other issue I noted was the spelling of witness names.  1 person with a particularly difficult name to spell had 7 different variants of his name, so you had to know all the variants before you could do a word search for him in the file.
There were so many observations, one that was interesting was the difference in the way males saw people compared to women.  Women are much more observant.  I used to joke that men only looked at a woman and remembered how many layers of clothing they would have to remove.
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Offline Brietta

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 09:43:48 AM »
That's why HOLMES ans similar systems were introduced.

HOLMES definitely wouldn't have to take coffee cup rings into consideration.  If the information had been entrusted to an apparently non-existing filing system where information was "left lying around on scraps of paper"
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2017, 09:52:03 AM »
The thousands of sightings, unfortunately, had the effect of taking up police time which could have been better spent in my opinion.
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Offline Robittybob1

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2017, 09:59:17 AM »
The thousands of sightings, unfortunately, had the effect of taking up police time which could have been better spent in my opinion.
How would they have known till they were investigated?  I heard one person say a Madeleine lookalike was seen in 3 different countries on the one day.  Could they just pick and choose which one was most likely? (For she can't be in 3 different places at once!)
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Offline Brietta

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2017, 09:59:36 AM »
Portuguese police 'ignored hundreds of sightings' in search for Madeleine McCann
By VANESSA ALLEN FOR THE DAILY MAIL
UPDATED: 05:22, 12 February 2010

Portuguese police faced growing pressure to reopen the Madeleine McCann investigation yesterday, amid claims they ignored potential sightings of the missing girl.

Detectives have refused to investigate hundreds of clues about the disappearance, including photographs of children said to bear a 'shocking' resemblance to the blonde youngster.

They include a cluster of sightings in Italy and Spain which could hold the key to solving the mystery and ending the years of heartache suffered by her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

But instead they have gone unchecked, marked as 'irrelevant' after the case was shelved, and left to gather dust in a police archive.

The McCanns' private detectives, who are continuing the search for the missing child, did not even know the dossier existed until a Portuguese policeman let slip a reference to it during a legal hearing.

Inspector Ricardo Paiva said police had received hundreds of tip-offs from witnesses convinced they had seen Madeleine and knew where she was being held.

They sent in photographs of children and of locations which they believed were being used by her abductor, believing that police would investigate their claims.

But arrogant detectives were so convinced by their own theory that Madeleine died on the night she disappeared, and that her parents faked her abduction, that they made no attempt to check the sightings.

The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, has seen the dossier. She said every single statement had the same phrase scrawled across it: 'This is not relevant to the investigation.'

She said: 'I was shocked at how much was in there, and that absolutely nothing had been done to follow any of it up.
'Every piece of information was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it "This is not relevant to the investigation".
'He is the witness who declared in court that he believed Madeleine is dead. You cannot find a person when you are not looking for them.'

Mr Paiva gave evidence at a legal hearing over a controversial book, written by his former boss, Goncalo Amaral.
He admitted that Mr Amaral's insistence that Madeleine died on May 3, 2007, meant the police investigation had failed to consider other options.

Mrs Duarte said they had not investigated any tip-offs since the case was officially shelved, in July 2008, when the McCanns were cleared as official suspects in the investigation.
She said information had continued to pour in from potential witnesses and even from other police forces in Europe, but was ignored, even when the clues including photographs of girls who looked like Madeleine.
The lawyer said: 'Some of them are very, very similar to Madeleine. But Kate and Gerry had never been shown them.
'There was information from Leicestershire Police, French police, Spanish police, and again nothing was done about it.

'Kate and Gerry did not even know this file existed until this week. I am going to give a copy of the file to them so that their private investigation team can follow up the information in it.

'But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job.

‘They have the power and the capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it, not Kate and Gerry.'
Mr and Mrs McCann, both 41, will discover next week if they have won their court bid to keep an injunction which bans Mr Amaral from repeating his vile claims that their daughter died in a 'tragic accident' and that they faked her abduction to cover up the death.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said they had been shocked to discover the full extent of the Portuguese police's failure to investigate Madeleine's disappearance.
He said it had confirmed their worst fears about the investigation, saying: 'They were shocked when they went through the file and saw what was in it, and even worse what little had been done to follow any of it up.
'Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all.

'The tragedy of this case, which once again has been highlighted by this, is what little was done to find Madeleine.
‘Kate and Gerry will have to do it themselves as they have been doing. They are the only ones looking for her.'

Mr Paiva said he could not discuss the case. He said: 'I cannot comment, in accordance with Portuguese law.'
 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250419/Portuguese-police-ignored-hundreds-sightings-search-Madeleine-McCann.html#ixzz3iY1WstrL
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2017, 10:06:23 AM »
Portuguese Law comes in handy at times like these! "Mr Paiva said he could not discuss the case. He said: 'I cannot comment, in accordance with Portuguese law.'"
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Offline Brietta

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2017, 10:56:36 AM »
I think we may be straying a bit from the OP ... OK I'm holding my hands up too.

Let's get back to discussion of:  http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A5_5/apenso5_vol_5_p1015.jpg
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2017, 11:10:57 AM »
Portuguese police 'ignored hundreds of sightings' in search for Madeleine McCann
By VANESSA ALLEN FOR THE DAILY MAIL
UPDATED: 05:22, 12 February 2010

Portuguese police faced growing pressure to reopen the Madeleine McCann investigation yesterday, amid claims they ignored potential sightings of the missing girl.

Detectives have refused to investigate hundreds of clues about the disappearance, including photographs of children said to bear a 'shocking' resemblance to the blonde youngster.

They include a cluster of sightings in Italy and Spain which could hold the key to solving the mystery and ending the years of heartache suffered by her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann.

But instead they have gone unchecked, marked as 'irrelevant' after the case was shelved, and left to gather dust in a police archive.

The McCanns' private detectives, who are continuing the search for the missing child, did not even know the dossier existed until a Portuguese policeman let slip a reference to it during a legal hearing.

Inspector Ricardo Paiva said police had received hundreds of tip-offs from witnesses convinced they had seen Madeleine and knew where she was being held.

They sent in photographs of children and of locations which they believed were being used by her abductor, believing that police would investigate their claims.

But arrogant detectives were so convinced by their own theory that Madeleine died on the night she disappeared, and that her parents faked her abduction, that they made no attempt to check the sightings.

The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, has seen the dossier. She said every single statement had the same phrase scrawled across it: 'This is not relevant to the investigation.'

She said: 'I was shocked at how much was in there, and that absolutely nothing had been done to follow any of it up.
'Every piece of information was treated the same way - Ricardo Paiva writes on it "This is not relevant to the investigation".
'He is the witness who declared in court that he believed Madeleine is dead. You cannot find a person when you are not looking for them.'

Mr Paiva gave evidence at a legal hearing over a controversial book, written by his former boss, Goncalo Amaral.
He admitted that Mr Amaral's insistence that Madeleine died on May 3, 2007, meant the police investigation had failed to consider other options.

Mrs Duarte said they had not investigated any tip-offs since the case was officially shelved, in July 2008, when the McCanns were cleared as official suspects in the investigation.
She said information had continued to pour in from potential witnesses and even from other police forces in Europe, but was ignored, even when the clues including photographs of girls who looked like Madeleine.
The lawyer said: 'Some of them are very, very similar to Madeleine. But Kate and Gerry had never been shown them.
'There was information from Leicestershire Police, French police, Spanish police, and again nothing was done about it.

'Kate and Gerry did not even know this file existed until this week. I am going to give a copy of the file to them so that their private investigation team can follow up the information in it.

'But I am angry because it is the Portuguese investigative police who should be doing this job.

‘They have the power and the capability to do it. It is they who should be doing it, not Kate and Gerry.'
Mr and Mrs McCann, both 41, will discover next week if they have won their court bid to keep an injunction which bans Mr Amaral from repeating his vile claims that their daughter died in a 'tragic accident' and that they faked her abduction to cover up the death.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said they had been shocked to discover the full extent of the Portuguese police's failure to investigate Madeleine's disappearance.
He said it had confirmed their worst fears about the investigation, saying: 'They were shocked when they went through the file and saw what was in it, and even worse what little had been done to follow any of it up.
'Kate and Gerry have consistently known that potential fresh information was not being properly followed up, if at all.

'The tragedy of this case, which once again has been highlighted by this, is what little was done to find Madeleine.
‘Kate and Gerry will have to do it themselves as they have been doing. They are the only ones looking for her.'

Mr Paiva said he could not discuss the case. He said: 'I cannot comment, in accordance with Portuguese law.'
 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250419/Portuguese-police-ignored-hundreds-sightings-search-Madeleine-McCann.html#ixzz3iY1WstrL

And the voice of reason;

Madeleine McCann and the "ignored clues" Daily Mirror

By JON CLEMENTS
Feb 12, 10 11:27AM

Interesting interpretations of some new information which has come out of the McCann's libel action in Lisbon.

Apparently the Policia Judiciara did not follow up dozens of sightings of Madeleine from around the world.

This is, according to some, further evidence of the PJ's bungling.

But is it ?

In any high profile missing persons inquiry publicity will inevitably generate lots of red herrings (some of my colleagues have spent days chasing them only to be left disappointed).

Police have limited resources - they can't simply despatch detectives on the say so of an individual whose credibility they can't judge.

In fact when one British police force did that it had disastrous consequences for the investigation and may have allowed the abductor/killer to go free.

Surrey police treated the disappearance of Milly Dowler in March 2002 as a missing persons inquiry and sent pairs of officers all over the UK looking for her.

It was a massive mistake and hampered the inquiry's ability to examine the evidence at hand in Walton on Thames - to "clear the ground from under their feet".

As a result they did not discover that sex predator and violent criminal Levi Bellfield - who went on to become a serial killer - had been living 100 yards away from where Milly was last seen.

Madeleine disappeared in Praia da Luz and that is one of the few absolute facts in this tragic story.

Perhaps some of the leads were worth following up, but until the full facts of each one are known it is a bit premature to give them a kicking over this.
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id308.htm

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Offline faithlilly

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2017, 11:46:38 AM »
It would be incredibly easy to miss information filed in the manner of the first investigation:

Quote
Paulo Rebelo, the new police chief leading the Madeleine McCann investigation, is furious at how it was left in disarray by his predecessor.

According to reports, officers have spent the past fortnight processing information left lying around on scraps of paper and following leads ignored by police working under Chief Inspector Goncalo Amaral.

Quote
Meanwhile, a police source quoted in a Portuguese newspaper said: "There was important material lying all over the place that hadn't been considered by investigators.

"A lot of key information was discarded. The whole process is being reviewed. Putting all the papers in order has been a massive task."

Officers have been working round-the-clock to log on to a computer all information relating to the disappearance of four-year-old Madeleine from the holiday complex in May.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/madeleine-new-police-chiefs-fury-over-the-mess-he-inherited-from-his-predecessor-6669085.html

The report continues that Rebelo covered all bases by also bringing into his investigation a seasoned murder squad detective Antonio Teixeira, with more than 30 years' experience.

And yet when Rebelo had all his ducks in a row he stil requested the reconstitution and that some of the main protagonists be questioned again. Seems even after the 'papers were put in order' Rebelo still wasn't convinced of the group's innocence.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2017, 01:11:57 PM »
And yet when Rebelo had all his ducks in a row he stil requested the reconstitution and that some of the main protagonists be questioned again. Seems even after the 'papers were put in order' Rebelo still wasn't convinced of the group's innocence.
There are some relatively minor errors in the statements of the Tapas 9, but even in this one obscure bit of paper we have evidence of obliteration, and potential suspects in cars with what appears stolen number plates.
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Offline jassi

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2017, 01:23:27 PM »
Maybe the number plate was misread. A simple mistake without sinister implication. 
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Robittybob1

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2017, 01:32:44 PM »
Maybe the number plate was misread. A simple mistake without sinister implication.
Who was it the witness identified? >>>"the first one they interviewed"  Who would know who the first one to be interviewed was?
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Incident Note - Portuguese part translated
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2017, 01:34:57 PM »
How would they have known till they were investigated?  I heard one person say a Madeleine lookalike was seen in 3 different countries on the one day.  Could they just pick and choose which one was most likely? (For she can't be in 3 different places at once!)

An appeal for specific information might have been more productive. Asking the world to look out for a three year old girl was perhaps too vague.

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