Who killed Bambi ?

[Eleanor]

I am sure this is one, having debated for eternity the fine detail, not sure your view though Eleanor.

I suspect that Jeremy Bamber is Innocent.  But decidedly an unsafe conviction.  I just don't have the time to go into it in any more detail than I already have.

The McCann Forum keeps me well occupied.

[Caroline]

How can one debate a Miscarriage of Justice if like Angelo one believes that there aren't any?

But that is not what was said? But even if that were the case, the debate would be to argue that there are.

[Myster]

More of the same boring banality... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4RPd0MK7O4

[adam]

People are so used to posting about Julie & the relatives framing Bamber, it's as if it this sort of thing has repeatedly happened before in other cases.

Does anyone have any other examples of people who did not commit a crime they were aware of, using evidence to help frame an innocent person for that crime ?

[Holly Goodhead]

People are so used to posting about Julie & the relatives framing Bamber, it's as if it this sort of thing has repeatedly happened before in other cases.

Does anyone have any other examples of people who did not commit a crime they were aware of, using evidence to help frame an innocent person for that crime ?

I’m not really sure what you mean by “did not commit a crime they were aware of...” and what your definition of ‘evidence’ is.

The 3 girls in the case of Stefan Kiszko later admitted lying at his trial simply for a laugh.  The trial judge praised the girls and said their testimony was key to SK’s conviction. 

In JB’s case no one had any experience of mass shootings consequently the case revolved around a lot of subjective stuff.  The 2002 appeal doc states the sequence of shootings was unknown.  This would not have been the case in US as there was enough physical evidence at soc to map out what happened.  It is obvious from CAL’s book and the  reconstructions put forward by Dr Vanezis and MF that they have no idea simply because they are not considering the totality of the physical evidence and taking a multi disciplinary approach.   

[adam]

I’m not really sure what you mean by “did not commit a crime they were aware of...” and what your definition of ‘evidence’ is.

The 3 girls in the case of Stefan Kiszko later admitted lying at his trial simply for a laugh.  The trial judge praised the girls and said their testimony was key to SK’s conviction. 

In JB’s case no one had any experience of mass shootings consequently the case revolved around a lot of subjective stuff.  The 2002 appeal doc states the sequence of shootings was unknown.  This would not have been the case in US as there was enough physical evidence at soc to map out what happened.  It is obvious from CAL’s book and the  reconstructions put forward by Dr Vanezis and MF that they have no idea simply because they are not considering the totality of the physical evidence and taking a multi disciplinary approach.

The relatives & Julie were aware of the massacre after it happened. Although they were not involved. They then helped frame another person not involved - Jeremy. With evidence & court testimony.

Innocent people attempting to frame another innocent person may have only happened once - the Bamber case.

The only other explanation is Julie was telling the truth & the silencer was not fabricated.

[Holly Goodhead]

The relatives & Julie were aware of the massacre after it happened. Although they were not involved. They then helped frame another person not involved - Jeremy. With evidence & court testimony.

Innocent people attempting to frame another innocent person may have only happened once - the Bamber case.

The only other explanation is Julie was telling the truth & the silencer was not fabricated.

We can see from the Dickinson report the relatives were allowed to influence the direction of the investiagation but this was down to overall poor standards at EP with the buck stopping at the Home Office.  Trials need to be based on sound forensic evidence not all the rubbish we have in JB’s case.

IMO JM was coerced by EP and the silencer evidence was fabricated by EP and FSS.  It was like a chain reaction.  In the real world we know the perp was either JB or SC, only Mike could come up with so many outlandish alternative theories.  The relatives didn’t think SC capable therefore as far as they were concerned it had to be JB.  What experience of processing complex soc’s/mass shootings did the relatives have? Or EP, Dr Vanezis, lawyers, judges, FSS?  In the absence of proper training and experience mistakes are made and subjectivity takes over! 

[adam]

It is all very sad.

Innocent people that knew Jeremy before the massacre, becoming criminals & helping to frame him. They knew he was innocent & how upset he would be after the massacre.

The police could not coerce Jeremy into false confession. So had to set up the 'industrial frame' department to ultimately get the guilty verdict.

[Holly Goodhead]

It is all very sad.

Innocent people that knew Jeremy before the massacre, becoming criminals & helping to frame him. They knew he was innocent & how upset he would be after the massacre.

The police could not coerce Jeremy into false confession. So had to set up the 'industrial frame' department to ultimately get the guilty verdict.

Yes it is all very sad like the legal dispute between the farming family.

How well did JM and/or the relatives really know JB and vice-versa!?

[Myster]

Yes it is all very sad like the legal dispute between the farming family.

How well did JM and/or the relatives really know JB and vice-versa!?

In the case of JM, her rose-tinted specs fell off when she eventually realized she was besotted with a monster.  As for the relatives, families know instinctively who their black sheep are, and JB was too thick to believe they wouldn't seriously question is dastardly plan.

[Angelo222]

In the case of JM, her rose-tinted specs fell off when she eventually realized she was besotted with a monster.  As for the relatives, families know instinctively who their black sheep are, and JB was too thick to believe they wouldn't seriously question is dastardly plan.

And he probably would have got away with it had he not done the dirty on Julie which led to her giving evidence against him.

[Caroline]

Yes it is all very sad like the legal dispute between the farming family.

How well did JM and/or the relatives really know JB and vice-versa!?

They didn't, they knew the face he showed them. This should be a red flag because after two years Julie should have known him pretty well if the side he showed her was genuine.

[Holly Goodhead]

In the case of JM, her rose-tinted specs fell off when she eventually realized she was besotted with a monster.  As for the relatives, families know instinctively who their black sheep are, and JB was too thick to believe they wouldn't seriously question is dastardly plan.

If this is so I am surprised it took an intelligent and well educated young woman like JM so long to smell the roses!

Why would the relatives know instinctively who any 'black sheep' were when by their own admission they had little to do with JB or SC with CC stating in his book the thing that surprised him the most during the day of the funerals in Essex was that no one in the family had any idea about the seriousness of SC's mental illness.
 

[adam]

Not sure if it's the norm for people who commit a crime, to attempt to frame another person.

Suspect a criminal is usually just trying to avoid any evidence incriminating himself. Rather than actively seeking to incriminate others. 

In this case, neither the relatives or Julie committed the crime. They were not suspects. Neither needed to divert police suspision away from them.

However both made huge, criminal, massively complex & wrong efforts to frame an innocent man. The police quickly jumping on board.

[adam]

Bamber & an official Youtube video say Julie & the relatives helped frame  him because -

She was (apparently) jilted - Julie.

Due to some farm land - Relatives.

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In Julie's case, she would be the most vindictive ex girlfriend ever.

The relatives were not being vindictive. Doubtful Bamber even knew about the land. They were just planning ahead & felt the best thing to do was frame Jeremy for the murder of his family.