Author Topic: Why now?  (Read 19958 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brietta

Re: Why now?
« Reply #285 on: November 27, 2021, 12:31:27 PM »
I completely understand that mitochondrial DNA cannot be used to identify individuals. My point was that it can't be used to eliminate them either.

The sceptic strategy of attempting to slur using deliberate or otherwise misrepresentation of whatever takes the current fancy is an indication that nothing coming from that stable is to be respected or trusted and that includes opinion.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Why now?
« Reply #286 on: November 27, 2021, 12:33:54 PM »
The sceptic strategy of attempting to slur using deliberate or otherwise misrepresentation of whatever takes the current fancy is an indication that nothing coming from that stable is to be respected or trusted and that includes opinion.

But what G-Unit stated is factually correct.

Offline Brietta

Re: Why now?
« Reply #287 on: November 27, 2021, 12:37:01 PM »
Yes I am for real. Those pages are missing from the link I use. That is why I asked for the link you used so I could check for myself.

                ❔❔     How sweet of the internet to give me my own exclusive access  ❤                 ❔❔
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Why now?
« Reply #288 on: November 27, 2021, 12:41:13 PM »
I actually believe Colin Sutton has a valid point when he says that "relationships change" and "science moves forward".  That might at some point in the future provide a breakthrough. It's a long shot - but still a possibility.

Wasn't he right about that.
Relationships between Brueckner and many of his friends have indeed undergone monumental changes of late.  Just as predicted.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Why now?
« Reply #289 on: November 27, 2021, 12:49:17 PM »
But what G-Unit stated is factually correct.

The information Corte Real gave to the investigators is correct and is the only meaningful one.  Gunit's interpretation of it is her own.

The same information was given from Birmingham regarding another misinterpreted sample by Corte Real's professional counterpart who pointed out that he and many of his lab colleagues shared the same characteristics.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Online G-Unit

Re: Why now?
« Reply #290 on: November 27, 2021, 01:25:23 PM »
The sceptic strategy of attempting to slur using deliberate or otherwise misrepresentation of whatever takes the current fancy is an indication that nothing coming from that stable is to be respected or trusted and that includes opinion.
I'm just asking for evidence which upholds your opinion that it was PROVED that the hairs found in Burgau belonged to someone other than Jane Tanner.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Brietta

Re: Why now?
« Reply #291 on: November 27, 2021, 02:28:43 PM »
I'm just asking for evidence which upholds your opinion that it was PROVED that the hairs found in Burgau belonged to someone other than Jane Tanner.

If you are going to ignore Cortes Real ~ nothing I post will make one slight bit of difference to your entrenched view.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Online G-Unit

Re: Why now?
« Reply #292 on: November 27, 2021, 04:12:03 PM »
If you are going to ignore Cortes Real ~ nothing I post will make one slight bit of difference to your entrenched view.

What did he (?) say then? I don't read portuguese.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Why now?
« Reply #293 on: November 27, 2021, 09:21:39 PM »
                ❔❔     How sweet of the internet to give me my own exclusive access  ❤                 ❔❔

I'm sure you don't get special privileges... so you could just post the link. Thanks in advance.

Offline Carana

Re: Why now?
« Reply #294 on: November 27, 2021, 09:38:01 PM »
I understand less about the specifics of their mtDNA forensic system than the nuclear system (where it's clear which "bits" of the genome are examined and how many).

IMO, confusion was created by saying that the result corresponded to x "or an individual of the same maternal bloodline". While it is true that mtDNA is inherited via the mother to all the children, the EMPOP database first went online in 2006 and - IMO - was comparatively in its infancy for forensic purposes.

For example, Kate shares the same haplotype as one of the first GNR officers on the scene (Jose Roque)... yet I have seen nothing to date to suggest that they are siblings.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P16/16_VOLUME_XVIa_Page_4175.jpg

In their database, there were 8 separate maternal lines with the same haplotype as JT's out of their nascent database of 3000 ish.

The EMPOP mtDNA database

On October 16, 2006, release I of the EMPOP database went online [Parson 2007b]. It is an IT based, open platform for comparison and storage of mtDNA sequence data and comprises 5173 mtDNA sequences from worldwide populations contributed by laboratories that had successfully participated in collaborative exercises. 4527 sequences are forensic data (high quality sequences), 646 sequences in the database are validated sequence data from publications, where raw data are not available. Literature-derived sequences have been carefully inspected with several methods of phylogenetic evaluation. The majority of the 5173 sequences derive from Western Eurasian populations, smaller datasets from East Asian, South East Asian and Subsahara African (meta)populations. Ongoing sampling and analysis is continuously increasing the number of samples and worldwide regions covered. Three PhD students at the Innsbruck Institute of Legal Medicine wo
rk in this field investigating populations currently underrepresented not only in in the EMPOP database.
https://genomics.gmi.tirol/projects/empop/

On the West Eurasia categories:

More than three-quarters of the present-day European mtDNA gene pool most likely comes from indigenous Mesolithic or Palaeolithic ancestors. In addition Neolithic immigrants, who brought the first forms of agriculture to the hunter-gatherer dominated European landscape, ~8,000 years ago play an important part of today’s mtDNA pool of modern humans in West Eurasia [Richards 2000].
https://genomics.gmi.tirol/projects/empop/west-eurasia/





« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 09:47:09 PM by Carana »

Online G-Unit

Re: Why now?
« Reply #295 on: November 28, 2021, 09:29:44 AM »
I understand less about the specifics of their mtDNA forensic system than the nuclear system (where it's clear which "bits" of the genome are examined and how many).

IMO, confusion was created by saying that the result corresponded to x "or an individual of the same maternal bloodline". While it is true that mtDNA is inherited via the mother to all the children, the EMPOP database first went online in 2006 and - IMO - was comparatively in its infancy for forensic purposes.

For example, Kate shares the same haplotype as one of the first GNR officers on the scene (Jose Roque)... yet I have seen nothing to date to suggest that they are siblings.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P16/16_VOLUME_XVIa_Page_4175.jpg

In their database, there were 8 separate maternal lines with the same haplotype as JT's out of their nascent database of 3000 ish.

The EMPOP mtDNA database

On October 16, 2006, release I of the EMPOP database went online [Parson 2007b]. It is an IT based, open platform for comparison and storage of mtDNA sequence data and comprises 5173 mtDNA sequences from worldwide populations contributed by laboratories that had successfully participated in collaborative exercises. 4527 sequences are forensic data (high quality sequences), 646 sequences in the database are validated sequence data from publications, where raw data are not available. Literature-derived sequences have been carefully inspected with several methods of phylogenetic evaluation. The majority of the 5173 sequences derive from Western Eurasian populations, smaller datasets from East Asian, South East Asian and Subsahara African (meta)populations. Ongoing sampling and analysis is continuously increasing the number of samples and worldwide regions covered. Three PhD students at the Innsbruck Institute of Legal Medicine wo
rk in this field investigating populations currently underrepresented not only in in the EMPOP database.
https://genomics.gmi.tirol/projects/empop/

On the West Eurasia categories:

More than three-quarters of the present-day European mtDNA gene pool most likely comes from indigenous Mesolithic or Palaeolithic ancestors. In addition Neolithic immigrants, who brought the first forms of agriculture to the hunter-gatherer dominated European landscape, ~8,000 years ago play an important part of today’s mtDNA pool of modern humans in West Eurasia [Richards 2000].
https://genomics.gmi.tirol/projects/empop/west-eurasia/

My question still remains unanswered. Was it true that  the National Institute for Forensic Medicine was able to prove  that the hair that was found in Burgau, while possessing the same haplotype as JANE TANNER, belonged to someone else?
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Online G-Unit

Re: Why now?
« Reply #296 on: November 28, 2021, 10:03:14 AM »
The sceptic strategy of attempting to slur using deliberate or otherwise misrepresentation of whatever takes the current fancy is an indication that nothing coming from that stable is to be respected or trusted and that includes opinion.

I'm casting doubt on something said by the PJ. I thought that was acceptable in certain circles?
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Carana

Re: Why now?
« Reply #297 on: November 28, 2021, 01:42:55 PM »
My question still remains unanswered. Was it true that  the National Institute for Forensic Medicine was able to prove  that the hair that was found in Burgau, while possessing the same haplotype as JANE TANNER, belonged to someone else?

Unless I've missed or forgotten something, I can't find where the INML positively excluded that hair as belonging to JT. Corte Real's letter /fax confirms the clarification eventually made by the lab that 8 maternal bloodlines in the database were identical to JT's.

However, none of the blood traces in the Burgau flat corresponded to any of the profiles they'd been given to compare them with, nor have I come across anything in the files that would corroborate her ever having been there
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm#p13p3476




Online G-Unit

Re: Why now?
« Reply #298 on: November 28, 2021, 02:08:29 PM »
Unless I've missed or forgotten something, I can't find where the INML positively excluded that hair as belonging to JT. Corte Real's letter /fax confirms the clarification eventually made by the lab that 8 maternal bloodlines in the database were identical to JT's.

However, none of the blood traces in the Burgau flat corresponded to any of the profiles they'd been given to compare them with, nor have I come across anything in the files that would corroborate her ever having been there
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm#p13p3476

I agree, but can find nothing which supports the PJ's claim that "the hair that was found inside that residence, while possessing the same haplotype as JANE TANNER, belongs to someone else"
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Carana

Re: Why now?
« Reply #299 on: November 28, 2021, 03:12:14 PM »
I agree, but can find nothing which supports the PJ's claim that "the hair that was found inside that residence, while possessing the same haplotype as JANE TANNER, belongs to someone else"
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

Except that the final reports states:

From pages 4167 to 4182, the forensics report from the National Institute for Forensic Medicine was appended, whose conclusions do not allow for significant advances in the investigation, but which identify several different haplotypes, some of which match intervenients in the process and others without any identificative value.

Immediately, the question concerning the differentiating value of some haplotypes [haplotype (Greek haploos = single) is a combination of alleles at multiple loci that are transmitted together on the same chromosome] was raised, namely concerning JANE TANNER, page 4175, which was located in a residence in Burgau, which, in our understanding, would not be viable and logical, or to say the least, would be very strange. Therefore, in order to clarify this situation, a clarification was requested from that Institute, pages 4320 and following, which, in its reply, is peremptory in stating that there are haplotypes that are identical among each other, in a percentage that is still significant, pages 4325 to 4328. This means that the hair that was found inside that residence, while possessing the same haplotype as JANE TANNER, belongs to someone else.