Why now?

[Carana]

They clearly have nothing on him entering 5a,the appeal doesn't even cover that.They're more interested in vehicles and phone call's.
What actual evidence is there that a stranger entered 5a on the night of 3/05/2007?
Woke and wandered if anything imo.

If they could just lay their hands on the missing hairs from the bed and check if his haplotype was one of the ones in the flat, the investigation might move one step further to finding out.

[barrier]

If they could just lay their hands on the missing hairs from the bed and check if his haplotype was one of the ones in the flat, the investigation might move one step further to finding out.

DNA ruled Tractorman out, that's suggestive of DNA gathered and analysed , with Wolters admitting no forensics to link CB either, it's dead in the water save his (CB) bestest mates dobbing him in.

[Venturi Swirl]

DNA ruled Tractorman out, that's suggestive of DNA gathered and analysed , with Wolters admitting no forensics to link CB either, it's dead in the water save his (CB) bestest mates dobbing him in.

Do you have a link to DNA ruling out Tractorman please?

[Eleanor]

Has it ever occurred to any of you that this is going nowhere when it comes to the culpability of The McCanns?

There is nothing that any of you can do.  It was a ghastly cock up from day one.  So even if there was some culpability then it has been long lost.

Amaral was utterly useless while fighting his own demons.  What on earth was he doing in charge of this case?

Portugal has way too much to answer for in the light of what Amaral had already done.

[Carana]

DNA ruled Tractorman out, that's suggestive of DNA gathered and analysed , with Wolters admitting no forensics to link CB either, it's dead in the water save his (CB) bestest mates dobbing him in.

I don't recall anything about DNA ruling him out, but you hardly need DNA to distinguish between a hair from a black person and a white one in any case.

[Wonderfulspam]

I don't recall anything about DNA ruling him out, but you hardly need DNA to distinguish between a hair from a black person and a white one in any case.

IIRC it was reported he had been ruled out as being the tanned smelly man with the fetish for getting into bed with white British girls.

[barrier]

 

I don't recall anything about DNA ruling him out, but you hardly need DNA to distinguish between a hair from a black person and a white one in any case.

Why bring race into it, a hair is a hair, how was the hair described as coming from a particular ethnic group ? the only way that could be done is though forensic analysis .

[Venturi Swirl]

?8)@)-)Why bring race into it, a hair is a hair, how was the hair described as coming from a particular ethnic group ? the only way that could be done is though forensic analysis .

What hair is this?

[barrier]

What hair is this?

Post 255 by carana.

[Brietta]

Post 255 by carana.

Carana posted
If they could just lay their hands on the missing hairs from the bed and check if his haplotype was one of the ones in the flat, the investigation might move one step further to finding out.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11593.msg670918#msg670918

I think you have gone off on a tangent with this one.

Carana quite clearly is referencing the hairs collected from apartment 5A which are unidentified.  We have no idea what forensic samples if any, were recovered from the scene of any other outrages.

[Venturi Swirl]

Post 255 by carana.

Post 256 by you - still not had a reply.

[Carana]

?8)@)-)Why bring race into it, a hair is a hair, how was the hair described as coming from a particular ethnic group ? the only way that could be done is though forensic analysis .

In the absence of roots to test for nuclear DNA, MtDNA analysis would provide a broad ethnic group (but not the identity of an individual), but an examination under a microscope of a Negroid/African hair would show the different structure.

(And NB: earlier I was referring the hairs that sent AWOL from her bed.)


Racial Determination

A human hair can be associated with a particular racial group based on established models for each group. Forensic examiners differentiate between hairs of Caucasoid (European ancestry), Mongoloid (Asian ancestry), and Negroid (African ancestry) origin, all of which exhibit microscopic characteristics that distinguish one racial group from another. Head hairs are generally considered best for determining race, although hairs from other body areas can be useful. Racial determination from the microscopic examination of head hairs from infants, however, can be difficult, and hairs from individuals of mixed racial ancestry may possess microscopic characteristics attributed to more than one racial group.

The identification of race is most useful as an investigative tool, but it can also be an associative tool when an individual’s hairs exhibit unusual racial characteristics.

Caucasoid (European)
Hairs of Caucasoid or Caucasian origin can be of fine to medium coarseness, are generally straight or wavy in appearance, and exhibit colors ranging from blonde to brown to black. The hair shafts of Caucasian hairs vary from round to oval in cross section and have fine to medium-sized, evenly distributed pigment granules.

Mongoloid (Asian)
Hairs of Mongoloid or Asian origin are regularly coarse, straight, and circular in cross section, with a wider diameter than the hairs of the other racial groups. The outer layer of the hair, the cuticle, is usually significantly thicker than the cuticle of Negroid and Caucasian hairs, and the medulla, or central canal, is continuous and wide. The hair shaft, or cortex, of Mongoloid hair contains pigment granules that are generally larger in size than the pigment granules of Caucasian hairs and which often appear to be grouped in patchy areas within the shaft. Mongoloid hair can have a characteristic reddish appearance as a product of its pigment.

Negroid (African)
Hairs of Negroid or African origin are regularly curly or kinky, have a flattened cross section, and can appear curly, wavy, or coiled. Negroid pigment granules are larger than those found in Mongoloid and Caucasian hair and are grouped in clumps of different sizes and shapes. The density of the pigment in the hair shaft may be so great as to make the hair opaque. A Negroid hair shaft exhibits variation or apparent variation in diameter because of its flattened nature and the manner in which it lies on the microscope slide. Twisting of the hair shaft, known as buckling, can be present, and the hair shaft frequently splits along the length.


https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/july2000/deedric1.htm

[Brietta]

In the absence of roots to test for nuclear DNA, MtDNA analysis would provide a broad ethnic group (but not the identity of an individual), but an examination under a microscope of a Negroid/African hair would show the different structure.

(And NB: earlier I was referring the hairs that sent AWOL from her bed.)


Racial Determination

A human hair can be associated with a particular racial group based on established models for each group. Forensic examiners differentiate between hairs of Caucasoid (European ancestry), Mongoloid (Asian ancestry), and Negroid (African ancestry) origin, all of which exhibit microscopic characteristics that distinguish one racial group from another. Head hairs are generally considered best for determining race, although hairs from other body areas can be useful. Racial determination from the microscopic examination of head hairs from infants, however, can be difficult, and hairs from individuals of mixed racial ancestry may possess microscopic characteristics attributed to more than one racial group.

The identification of race is most useful as an investigative tool, but it can also be an associative tool when an individual’s hairs exhibit unusual racial characteristics.

Caucasoid (European)
Hairs of Caucasoid or Caucasian origin can be of fine to medium coarseness, are generally straight or wavy in appearance, and exhibit colors ranging from blonde to brown to black. The hair shafts of Caucasian hairs vary from round to oval in cross section and have fine to medium-sized, evenly distributed pigment granules.

Mongoloid (Asian)
Hairs of Mongoloid or Asian origin are regularly coarse, straight, and circular in cross section, with a wider diameter than the hairs of the other racial groups. The outer layer of the hair, the cuticle, is usually significantly thicker than the cuticle of Negroid and Caucasian hairs, and the medulla, or central canal, is continuous and wide. The hair shaft, or cortex, of Mongoloid hair contains pigment granules that are generally larger in size than the pigment granules of Caucasian hairs and which often appear to be grouped in patchy areas within the shaft. Mongoloid hair can have a characteristic reddish appearance as a product of its pigment.

Negroid (African)
Hairs of Negroid or African origin are regularly curly or kinky, have a flattened cross section, and can appear curly, wavy, or coiled. Negroid pigment granules are larger than those found in Mongoloid and Caucasian hair and are grouped in clumps of different sizes and shapes. The density of the pigment in the hair shaft may be so great as to make the hair opaque. A Negroid hair shaft exhibits variation or apparent variation in diameter because of its flattened nature and the manner in which it lies on the microscope slide. Twisting of the hair shaft, known as buckling, can be present, and the hair shaft frequently splits along the length.


https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/july2000/deedric1.htm

Thanks for that, Carana.

It was your meticulous work carried out in a much earlier thread in the effort to explain DNA as simply as possible to the forum which gave me an inkling of understanding of the way in which it had been misinterpreted in Madeleine's case.

With absolutely no disrespect intended to present members it also suggested to me that a little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing.

Take for example the total inability of the Amaral team (and later, numerous internet detectives) to understand that the hair found in Burgau had nothing to do with anyone in the McCann group.

DNA is a complex science for most of us and should not be bandied about on internet fora by folk who demonstrate even less understanding of it than I have.

I think you epitomise the intended ethos of this forum.  Always straight and to the point and always well researched.

[Carana]

Aw, thank you!

I didn't understand it much in the beginning either. It was someone on 3A who started trying to explain and then I found some high school sites with lots of exercises.

That Amaral and co didn't understand it is one thing, but he kept on spouting rubbish as if he did.

[G-Unit]

Thanks for that, Carana.

It was your meticulous work carried out in a much earlier thread in the effort to explain DNA as simply as possible to the forum which gave me an inkling of understanding of the way in which it had been misinterpreted in Madeleine's case.

With absolutely no disrespect intended to present members it also suggested to me that a little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing.

Take for example the total inability of the Amaral team (and later, numerous internet detectives) to understand that the hair found in Burgau had nothing to do with anyone in the McCann group.

DNA is a complex science for most of us and should not be bandied about on internet fora by folk who demonstrate even less understanding of it than I have.

I think you epitomise the intended ethos of this forum.  Always straight and to the point and always well researched.

The result for the two hairs found in found in Bergau was;

"The Haplotype identified by the letter S, present in 2 samples, (apartment in Burgau), and identical to that of Jane Michelle Tanner (JT), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodline."

The hairs found in 5A were subjected to the same tests, and the results were similarly worded;

"The Haplotype identified by the letter O. present in 2 samples, and identical to that of Russell James O'Brien (RJB), meaning those samples were from that person or individuals of the same maternal bloodlines."
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

The only difference I can see is that Jane wasn't expected to be in Bergau, while it was known that Russell was in 5A. There's no difference in the forensic tests and results.