Author Topic: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner  (Read 34198 times)

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Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« on: November 13, 2021, 08:37:50 PM »
Since the Crimewatch special on the McCann case in 2013 and DCI Redwood (rightly in my opinion) stating that the investigation could move away from the idea that the man seen by Jane Tanner was Madeleine McCann's abductor and focus instead on the other man seen carrying a child matching Madeleine's description around 10pm on the fateful night in question. The man seen by members of the Smith family from Ireland has never come forward. Martin Smith made a second statement in which he was 60-80% certain that the man he saw was Gerry McCann. The Portuguese investigation did not follow this up as Amaral had been taken off the case, and they placed Gerry McCann at the Tapas Bar at the time of the Smith family sighting. I personally believe there is a need to further examine this as there are various accounts as to what time the alert of Madeleine being found missing was raised and there are statements which claimed the T9 had vacated the Tapas Bar by 10pm.

Nevertheless there is a widespread believe that the German Police have nearly cracked the case and have spent almost 18 months touting Christian Brueckner as the "Prime Suspect". For people who believe the German BKA have got their man, I'm wondering if you believe Smithman (or perhaps even Tannerman) was the abductor and therefore this man was Christian Brueckner. One problem with that is the descriptions don't really match and of course why didn't he use a vehicle nearer the Ocean Club to make for a quicker exit from the area?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2021, 10:21:32 PM »
For years we were under the impression that Tannerman had never come forward and now we know he did but the GNR never forwarded the information to the PJ.  Who knows what other incompetencies might have occurred with regard to Smithman?  Maybe he too came forward and his statement was never taken by the police or forwarded to the correct department.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Snowgirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2021, 10:38:49 PM »
For years we were under the impression that Tannerman had never come forward and now we know he did but the GNR never forwarded the information to the PJ.  Who knows what other incompetencies might have occurred with regard to Smithman?  Maybe he too came forward and his statement was never taken by the police or forwarded to the correct department.
Why would Tannerman go to the GNR? Who told Andy Redwood ? The one and same ? We know who he said it was .

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2021, 10:43:15 PM »
Why would Tannerman go to the GNR? Who told Andy Redwood ? The one and same ? We know who he said it was .
Why would the PJ not reference Totman’s statement in their final report thus ruling out JT’s sighting?  Where is the Totman statement?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2021, 10:43:53 PM »
For years we were under the impression that Tannerman had never come forward and now we know he did but the GNR never forwarded the information to the PJ.  Who knows what other incompetencies might have occurred with regard to Smithman?  Maybe he too came forward and his statement was never taken by the police or forwarded to the correct department.

Totman, it is reported, also filled in a questionnaire for Leicestershire police and they too appeared to have ignored it. How do you know the photo of Totman’s daughter’s pyjamas and Ocean Club towel wasn’t taken in Portugal and the Police ruled out any involvement from an early stage? Also it’s worth remembering that the PJ Files are not a complete record of every statement taken.

Are you surprised that Smithman, according to Redwood, hasn’t been identified by OG since they revealed he was the new focus of their interest and this is such a high profile case.

It seems that no-one here is convinced that Smithman is CB. At least no-one has stated that is what they believe as far as I am aware.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2021, 10:46:42 PM »
Totman, it is reported, also filled in a questionnaire for Leicestershire police and they too appeared to have ignored it. How do you know the photo of Totman’s daughter’s pyjamas and Ocean Club towel wasn’t taken in Portugal and the Police ruled out any involvement from an early stage? Also it’s worth remembering that the PJ Files are not a complete record of every statement taken.

Are you surprised that Smithman, according to Redwood, hasn’t been identified by OG since they revealed he was the new focus of their interest and this is such a high profile case.

It seems that no-one here is convinced that Smithman is CB. At least no-one has stated that is what they believe as far as I am aware.
When you learn to answer my questions properly then I will answer yours.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Snowgirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2021, 11:02:53 PM »
When you learn to answer my questions properly then I will answer yours.
Is talking down to others in here your preferred method of answering a civil question? This isn't a school where you get to play teacher!

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2021, 11:05:07 PM »
A beautiful example of a McCann sceptic tying themselves up in knots trying to explain the Tannerman Smithman sightings - beware your brain might just explode trying to unravel this completely convoluted nonsense!

Quote
Dr Totman I Presume

One of the characters of this drama who people seem to struggle to reconcile is Dr Julian Totman who with his wife (both GP’s living in Salisbury) and 2 year old son were staying at the Ocean Club this week.  It has been remarked just how many doctors were at this rather charmless resort in this off-season week but setting that aside Dr. Totman seems a relatively uncontroversial figure.  He seems to have enjoyed tennis and played against Gerry on a number of occasions.  Unlike the Tapas 8, he opted to avail the night creche facility provided by Mark Warner to look after his toddler in the evening and consequently was in the habit of carrying his sleeping son back from the off-site facility along a route that would take him across the road that Jane Tanner reported seeing Tannerman at around 9.15pm.  He was wearing beige coloured trousers and a dark jacket and though he was carrying his kid towards the apartment blocks rather than away but otherwise was a good possible fit for the Tannerman sighting. 

What seems to have happened is that Totman contacted the GNR (the local police) in May 2007 to tell them he thought there was a good chance that he was Tannerman.  I don’t think there is any record of whether he spoke to Gerry or Kate about it.  Given that he knew him through tennis, it would seem an obvious thing to do.  I presume that the GNR passed this information onto the PJ (can anyone confirm?), but they seem to have done little with it.  It seems possible, that the PJ had already largely discounted Jane Tanner’s evidence which was notoriously changing so they may have felt it was of secondary importance.  Because of their secrecy rules we cannot be very sure how the Portuguese regarded Totman.  The file was also apparently passed to the Leicestershire Police who outrageously seem to have put it in a box somewhere and quietly ignored it.  To my knowledge there has been no investigation of how and on whose instructions this egregious “mistake” happened.  What is clear is that the decision to bury Totman was of absolutely critical importance to the McCanns.  Many people have been skeptical of Jane Tanner’s Tannerman testimony from the off but nevertheless officially and in the public imagination it remained central to the claim that Maddie had been abducted.  It also deflected attention from the Smith’s sighting which of course was dangerous for Gerry firstly given Aoife Smith’s worryingly accurate description of Gerry’s clothing and then in September, even more awkwardly Martin and Mary Smith’s testimony that Smith man was most probably Gerry McCann.
Totman only officially came to light in October 2013 – more than 2 years after Operation Grange had been established in May 2011.  Why it took 2 years for a team of 29 police officers and 8 civilians to check the files that had been accumulated by the Leicestershire Police remains an unexplained mystery.

So where does that leave us?

I confess I haven’t looked at Totman in great detail.  I am skeptical of the theories that implicate him in any widespread conspiracy theory. I think he is most probably an honest witness and was indeed bringing his child back from the night creche at around this time. What I suspect happened was:
Jane Tanner was indeed somewhere on the street around 9.15pm on Thursday 3rd.  I don’t think she was there to check on her child or that she passed by Gerry and Jez standing outside 5a.  I have a feeling she was there to play her part in the hoax abduction that they had initially scheduled for 9.00-9.30pm.  I suspect that the plan was somewhat delayed by the surprise appearance of Jez Wilkins who may have prevented Gerry from jemmying the shutters.  Once Jez had gone on his way, Tanner may also have seen Totman returning from the night creche delaying the plan a little more.  In my view, the evidence is very strong that Gerry was really seen by The Smiths at around 9.55pm walking towards the beach.  I have argued elsewhere that it would have been relatively easy for Gerry/Smithman to have avoided The Smiths had he wanted to, which he surely would have had he really been carrying Maddie’s corpse.  It would also have not made the slightest bit of sense to actively encourage Irish tourists to come forward with whatever they had seen had Gerry really been carrying Maddie’s corpse.  I therefore think Gerry may well have been carrying a decoy down towards the beach in order to validate the abduction hoax.  The decoy would most plausibly have been a sedated Ella O’Brien, though a sedated Amelie McCann may also be a possibility. Exactly how this was choreographed is still clouded in confusion and I suspect it was similarly confusing to those involved at the time.  There are indications, from some independent witnesses that Kate first “raised the alarm” at around 9.30-9.45pm which may have been the original plan.  It looks like Gerry’s Smithman run was delayed, probably due to Jez Wilkins’ and Julian Totman’s appearance and maybe some other unknown issue.  Kate may therefore have had to raise the alarm a second time, to a wider audience at around 10.05pm once Gerry had returned and this then became the official time that Maddie’s discovery was supposed to have happened.

I suspect that Jane Tanner created Tannerman by stitching together a number of things that she had seen or experienced.  I think Gerry’s original plan had been to use The Smiths as his independent witnesses to validate the abduction and that it was to a large extent Jane Tanner herself who without fully consulting Gerry came up with Tannerman.  I have previously commented on the highly unusual way that Tannerman was supposedly seen holding the child – characteristic of how people hold a child’s corpse, but not how they typically hold a sleeping child (usually over the shoulder).  It would be nice to know from Totman how he was holding his child that night.  My instinct is that Jane described Tannerman as holding the child in that what as she was recalling how she herself held Maddie’s corpse somewhere along the line. (Both she and David Payne make Freudian slips to this effect). When to their great surprise the Irish family Gerry encountered on his Smithman run didn’t immediately come forward, Tannerman became central to substantiating the abduction hoax, especially given the shutters had not been jemmied in any way.  The fact that the Smith’s did come forward on 26 May seems to have (very sensibly) been kept secret from the McCanns.  On the presumption that the Smithman sighting was shared with the Leicestershire Police who seem to be largely working on the McCann’s behalf, it is possible that the McCann’s had been tipped off by the LP about the Smiths, though maybe not the full details.  However, as they did not officially know, nor had it been publicly revealed, they would not have been able to publicise the fact. Once the details of the Smith sighting became clear, it became even more vital to maintain the fiction of the Tannerman sighting so the LP quietly buried the evidence that Totman had provided.  Totman only came to public light in October 2013 two years after Scotland Yard in the form of Operation Grange came to take over the case in May 2011.   By that time Tannerman had largely served its purpose and people were questioning how many times the description had changed and pointing to the negligible window of opportunity that Tannerman would have had to execute the “abduction”. The Smithman sighting been largely defused by the insistence and constant repetition in the media that Gerry was sitting with the Tapas 7 friends at 10pm and therefore any resemblance to him must be purely coincidental.  It also served a purpose in showing that Operation Grange was actually doing something.  In fact to date after GBP12m and 8 years of inquiries, rediscovering Totman’s testimony that had been so conveniently buried by the Leicestershire Police remains pretty much the only achievement of Operation Grange to date.

Anyhow those are my thoughts as to how Totman might fit in.  Comments and further insight would be most appreciated.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2021, 11:05:49 PM »
Is talking down to others in here your preferred method of answering a civil question? This isn't a school where you get to play teacher!
Yes it is - now pipe down at the back there. 
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Snowgirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2021, 11:24:08 PM »
Yes it is - now pipe down at the back there.
So you're now telling me to shut up ?  A pretty poor way of conducting yourself is to  try to copy Anne  Robinson  if you ask me  (&^&

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2021, 11:57:52 PM »
So you're now telling me to shut up ?  A pretty poor way of conducting yourself is to  try to copy Anne  Robinson  if you ask me  (&^&
Oooh, cutting.  Got any more insults for me this evening or are you done now?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Billy Whizz Fan Club

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2021, 02:27:48 AM »
Why would Tannerman go to the GNR? Who told Andy Redwood ? The one and same ? We know who he said it was .

He might have realised that the reports of Tannerman weren't an abductor but it was a sighting of him. I can't explain Tanner's account of the direction he was walking though. If you don't think Tannerman was Totman - do you believe it was CB?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2021, 07:10:10 AM »
He might have realised that the reports of Tannerman weren't an abductor but it was a sighting of him. I can't explain Tanner's account of the direction he was walking though. If you don't think Tannerman was Totman - do you believe it was CB?
Of course she doesn’t, she thinks the McCanns dunnit.
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2021, 07:45:31 AM »
He might have realised that the reports of Tannerman weren't an abductor but it was a sighting of him. I can't explain Tanner's account of the direction he was walking though. If you don't think Tannerman was Totman - do you believe it was CB?

Perhaps Totman was walking towards the creche and that's what Redwood got wrong.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Tannerman, Smithman and Christian Brueckner
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2021, 08:01:47 AM »
It’s also possible that JT got the direction of travel wrong, the mind can play tricks after traumatic events and it does try to make sense of things, not necessarily always with a great degree of accuracy.  She knew Madeleine had been disappeared, she knew she’d seen a man carrying a child right next to the apartment, in order to connect the two, she simply unconsciously reversed the distance of travel.  I wonder if she would accept that explanation now or not…?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly