General discussion about the latest news (not search related)

[Alice Purjorick]

So allegedly.. gypsies that openly ask to buy children from dodgy fellas get desperate and break into a watched house to steal a child?

   Why not just go on asking dodgy blokes if they can buy their children? Surely this is not 'latest news' either, it's very, very old news.

Sounds like something out of Rutland Weekend Television or a Cher song or a story me owd granny used to tell to stop me going out the end of the ginnel.
Anyway we should be being PC it's "travelling people" now, not gipsies,gyppos, didikais, dids or tinks no more...

[Gertrude]

Hewlett was the only one who got friendly with the Gypsies on the camp site he stayed at.   He said this to friends way before the police came to hunt him down.    A man without money what was stopping him looking out for a child who resembled his own?   He lied to the police too about the van he had when Madeleine went missing he said he had the blue one but he really had a white one, then all of a sudden he has money for a new van.   All IMO

All this stuff is 'alleged'. I can't find any direct source of Hewlett saying the stuff about gypsies. I do see a lot of stories where he is mentioned together with quotes from Clarence Mitchell.

IMO all this stuff about gypsies is xenophobic fairy stories with no evidence to back it up.

[Gertrude]

Sounds like something out of Rutland Weekend Television or a Cher song or a story me owd granny used to tell to stop me going out the end of the ginnel.
Anyway we should be being PC it's "travelling people" now, not gipsies,gyppos, didikais, dids or tinks no more...

Ahh, memories. There was a ginnel near my grannies house too.  I never saw any swarthy 'travelling people' out catching children though.

[Lace]

Sounds like something out of Rutland Weekend Television or a Cher song or a story me owd granny used to tell to stop me going out the end of the ginnel.
Anyway we should be being PC it's "travelling people" now, not gipsies,gyppos, didikais, dids or tinks no more...

Are you sure they want to be called 'travelling people'?   I thought true Gypsies were proud to be called Gypsies.  They were certainly called Gypsies on the tv programmes eg 'My big fat Gypsy wedding'.


I am not saying all Gypsies are child stealers,  but I won't be ruling out Raymond Hewlett.

[Gertrude]

Are you sure they want to be called 'travelling people'?   I thought true Gypsies were proud to be called Gypsies.  They were certainly called Gypsies on the tv programmes eg 'My big fat Gypsy wedding'.


I am not saying all Gypsies are child stealers,  but I won't be ruling out Raymond Hewlett.

   I wouldn't rule out Hewlett either but he has been ruled out first by the PJ and presumably by Scotland Yard. I think it's worth noting it was Clarence who said the McCann's investigators were investigating Hewitt, ie. private individuals. Scotland Yard have never said anything about him as far as I can see.

[Brietta]

What a story! Sounds like a plot from some telefilm on Fox Life!

They went to a lot of bother to steal a child who met with their specifications.

Now imagine the same set of circumstances with CCTV cameras taken out of the equation and the child bundled into the car with no witnesses around to see the abduction.

Just another mother with an impossible story and another missing child with nothing to connect her to the abductors?
Something along the lines of what happened in Madeleine's case.

[Gertrude]

A child stalked and taken forcefully from parents outside in the street is nothing like a sleeping child taken from inside an apartment IMO.

[G-Unit]

Are you sure they want to be called 'travelling people'?   I thought true Gypsies were proud to be called Gypsies.  They were certainly called Gypsies on the tv programmes eg 'My big fat Gypsy wedding'.


I am not saying all Gypsies are child stealers,  but I won't be ruling out Raymond Hewlett.

Romany Gypsies and Travellers are distinct unrelated genetic groups. Travellers are mostly Irish and it was them who were in the TV programmes in my opinion, not true gypsies. 

[Alice Purjorick]

All this stuff is 'alleged'. I can't find any direct source of Hewlett saying the stuff about gypsies. I do see a lot of stories where he is mentioned together with quotes from Clarence Mitchell.

IMO all this stuff about gypsies is xenophobic fairy stories with no evidence to back it up.

One day someone will write a book comprising a compilation of Clarence Mitchell quotes along the lines of Alan Coren's Idi Amin Bulletins. I suppose there is one flaw in that idea like how many people have heard of Clarence Mitchell after his fifteen minutes of fame.
"These people really are the big boys and can do things the police can not".
 
Punch a hole in the corner of the book push through a bit of string then hang it on a nail in the door of the little shack out back to provide entertainment for your visitors.

[Alice Purjorick]

Ahh, memories. There was a ginnel near my grannies house too.  I never saw any swarthy 'travelling people' out catching children though.

They were too busy flogging pegs, picking seasonal crops or laying drives of thin tarmac cut with used engine oil so it never cured.

[Snowgirl]

They went to a lot of bother to steal a child who met with their specifications.

Now imagine the same set of circumstances with CCTV cameras taken out of the equation and the child bundled into the car with no witnesses around to see the abduction.

Just another mother with an impossible story and another missing child with nothing to connect her to the abductors?
Something along the lines of what happened in Madeleine's case.

You can't say that with any certainty whatsoever  tho it does show how guillible some are to  believe an unsubstantiated tale of abduction as opposed to a faked abduction  .
 I wonder why this is ?   
     

   

[Venturi Swirl]

A child stalked and taken forcefully from parents outside in the street is nothing like a sleeping child taken from inside an apartment IMO.

The intent is the same. the only thing different is the type of location and we know from a very recent case that strangers can and do abduct sleeping children from their beds without leaving a trace.

[Gertrude]

The intent is the same. the only thing different is the type of location and we know from a very recent case that strangers can and do abduct sleeping children from their beds without leaving a trace.

 Yes, I agree it's possible and no-one ever can say 100% that it doesn't happen.. but this is a very unusual case that doesn't seem to match any others in terms of possible motivation, the location she vanished from and the age of the child and the short time between the parents checks.

   In the Isabel Celis case we have not been told what evidence they found exactly, the police did consider the screen removed from the window as an entry point and they did find footprints. However details have been kept back and it hasn't been confirmed what evidence collected related to an abductor or not, so for me I think the McCann case is extremely hard to compare to any other.

[Venturi Swirl]

Yes, I agree it's possible and no-one ever can say 100% that it doesn't happen.. but this is a very unusual case that doesn't seem to match any others in terms of possible motivation, the location she vanished from and the age of the child and the short time between the parents checks.

   In the Isabel Celis case we have not been told what evidence they found exactly, the police did consider the screen removed from the window as an entry point and they did find footprints. However details have been kept back and it hasn't been confirmed what evidence collected related to an abductor or not, so for me I think the McCann case is extremely hard to compare to any other.

In the Isabel Celis case the father was thr prime suspect for a long time so whatever evidence they claimed to have found couldn’t have been very compelling.  I think the comparisons between the two cases are extremely valid. 
ETA: just look at all the comments from the online sleuths pointing the finger at her dad here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3tpf5l/6_year_old_isabel_celis_unresolved_disappearance/#thing_t1_cx84ugl

[Gertrude]

In the Isabel Celis case the father was thr prime suspect for a long time so whatever evidence they claimed to have found couldn’t have been very compelling.  I think the comparisons between the two cases are extremely valid. 
ETA: just look at all the comments from the online sleuths pointing the finger at her dad here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3tpf5l/6_year_old_isabel_celis_unresolved_disappearance/#thing_t1_cx84ugl

 I'm not comparing public suspicion. I was comparing evidence that the police collected. They found quite a bit of evidence and we have not been told which pieces ( if any) relate to an abductor.  A blanket was found, sandals, footprints outside the house and police DID believe the window screen on the floor to be evidence of entry - unlike the McCann case with just them insisting the window was a point of entry.

  I would wait until the Celis case is over completely before deciding it is so similar.

The evidence is detailed here;

https://www.scribd.com/document/343663429/Tucson-Police-Department-Isabel-Celis-Report-6