Author Topic: The Defence Will State Their Case  (Read 599846 times)

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Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1740 on: September 26, 2018, 05:51:40 PM »
Nine, I was joking, please don't take offence.

I didn't take A fence, or a small gate for that matter....  @)(++(*

Offline justsaying

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1741 on: September 26, 2018, 06:06:32 PM »
Perhaps when you have the time you should do as Jixy suggested earlier and start looking into other cases, you may find a lot of the answers you seek that way.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1742 on: September 26, 2018, 06:44:35 PM »

(1): I agree that not everyone who makes a statement to a crime will be called as a witness, but if they have relevant information to the events that took place, then i believe they should be called.. If they are the partner of the accused, I believe they can provide invaluable evidence, one way or another. If they witnessed someone at a gate on the relevant evening, they could add to either the defences or prosecutions case... If they found the body of Joanna Yeates, I believe they should be called....

(2): If they were so certain that Dr Vincent Tabak was the man that killed Joanna Yeates and Dr Vincent Tabak apparently states in May 2011 that he was guilty of her Manslaughter, why would the Police need to hold back any information?? Surely there should be something that only Dr Vincent tabak knew.... as you state, that is why the Police hold information back... But i would have thought that was only whilst Investigating and not when a trial is to take place for the man they charged with this Murder...

(3): I agree... It would be impossible for the Newspapers to print every aspect of a trial.... Yet they printed many aspects before the trial...!

(4): Again that statement is true in a sense... I have NO Evidence to prove that NON Disclosure was an issue in this case, and therefore would have to concede that to a degree... But then question what the Defence did in relation to their client?? Because I can only go off what we are aware was produced at trial and who did and who did not take the witness stand... I can only go off the tweets that tell us about physical evidence... And no physical evidence puts Dr Vincent Tabak inside Joanna Yeates Flat.... I would have thought that the prosecution would have used this evidence of Dr Vincent Tabak being in Joanna Yeates Flat and Joanna Yeates being in Dr Vincent Tabak's Flat as proof of his connection to the Murder....

(5): The Defence did have a choice, they had a choice early on in the game when the could have challenged the evidence.. When they could have applied for bail.. long before Dr Vincent Tabak made a plea at the Old Bailey.... They had a choice NOT to put their client on the witness stand at trial, as his story was the only evidence that stated what he apparently did on Friday 17th December 2010.... No Dr Vincent Tabak on the witness stand... No conviction for Murder!

(6): So the only apparent confession, is what Dr Vincent Tabak said on the witness stand at trial... The information wasn't available beforehand, he said NO Comment!! And I cannot see what evidence supported the claim that was made on the stand... unless the jury were aware of other information that was not presented as evidence...

(7): The trial should have been about the  truth.... The trial should have answered so many questions... The trial should not have been about a jury finding a man guilty when they were already aware he plead guilty to Manslaughter... The word "Manslaughter" being used daily by the media... The word "Manslaughter being used in the court room.... How was that not prejudicial?

(8): Just like I use theory in my posts... But in a court of law, I would like evidence to support said theory and not let everyone interpret what they choose suits their ideas.... Like how it would be impossible for Dr Vincent Tabak to have Joanna Yeates in the boot of the car that was shown on CCTV coming down Park Street... He wasn't on his way to Asda then as it was implied..... The time stamp may be Missing... But the date of the 18th December 2010 on the CCTV makes that an impossibility, seeing as this all apparently took place on the 17th December 2010...

And as you know Justsaying... I have never professed to know anything abut the law or trial procedures, as you have all come to the conclusion that I have proven I am an uneducated women that doesn't have a CSE to rub together....

So my ramblings are my opinion... my opinion may be flawed... But that shouldn't stop people from wondering what this case is really about... That shouldn't stop people questioning how our justice system works... That shouldn't stop people from contesting whether an Innocent man or woman has been sent to prison....

That shouldn't stop anyone from viewing the videos that have been made from people connected to this case... Video's that they are seen to contradict themselves in.... And why DCI mark Saunders CCTV of Canygne Road was NOT played to a Jury to establish whether or not Joanna Yeates actually reached her home on Friday 17th December 2010....

You may be able to accept a confession, or whatever you want to call it Justsaying.... But the facts should support said confession, and if Joanna Yeates did not reach home on Friday 17th December 2010, then I contend that Dr Vincent Tabak did not kill her as was stated at trial...

Surely we need  to know the original scene of Crime and if the victim was there at the said time or at her home at all over that weekend... That I would say is more pressing.... And that I would say should have been of primary concern, in this case....

Edit....

(1): Yes not everyone will be called as a witness... but their evidence should be amongst the disclosure for the defence to view(imo)... The Defence themselves can then decide whether or not a person who made a statement, is relevant to a trial.... The possibility that someone made a statement that contradicts what has been stated at trial, could be nestled away in that disclosure bundle.... (imo)

Just like Kingdon. who made a statement to the Police apparently about hearing someone cry "Help Me" mid morning on the 18th December 2010...  Did that not get disclosed??? Or did that just get ignored??

I hope to come back to this nine
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline justsaying

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1743 on: September 26, 2018, 06:52:55 PM »
I hope to come back to this nine

Please don't  &%54% or if you must make sure you read about the case at least, as you have already stated, you know nothing about it. I am wondering why you haven't taken an interest in this thread before, or are you here just to score points...

On another note, I find it highly amusing that you are entertaining the fact that someone who pleaded guilty may be innocent yet you totally rule out that possibility in LM's case.   *%87

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1744 on: September 26, 2018, 07:06:41 PM »
Please don't  &%54% or if you must make sure you read about the case at least, as you have already stated, you know nothing about it. I am wondering why you haven't taken an interest in this thread before, or are you here just to score points...

On another note, I find it highly amusing that you are entertaining the fact that someone who pleaded guilty may be innocent yet you totally rule out that possibility in LM's case.   *%87

How can you possibly claim I haven't taken an interest in this thread before?  *&^^&

You know NOTHING about what I have and haven't done; what I've taken an interest in or haven't taken an interest in!

Just as you know NOTHING about me (other than a few snippets of my past with Simon Hall). You have a perception of me THAT IS ALL!
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

jixy

  • Guest
Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1745 on: September 26, 2018, 07:10:17 PM »
I know nothing about him. I didn't follow this case.



 (ty6e[


Offline justsaying

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1747 on: September 26, 2018, 07:40:12 PM »
Jixy has already pointed out the answer to one of your questions i.e. you yourself saying you know nothing about the case. In relation to your other one, were you not claiming in earlier posts that Nine had a point in what she was saying? and she is claiming Tabak is innocent so...

It really is a shame Nine cannot see what you are up to like everyone else can...

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1748 on: September 26, 2018, 08:04:08 PM »
 @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* I must say your avatar is interesting, JustSaying....  You been talking to my husband??

Offline justsaying

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1749 on: September 26, 2018, 08:18:20 PM »
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* I must say your avatar is interesting, JustSaying....  You been talking to my husband??

My avatar is not aimed at you Nine if that is what you are thinking. Or does your husband really like frozen  @)(++(* nothing wrong with that if he does of course  8(0(*

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1750 on: September 26, 2018, 08:20:40 PM »
My avatar is not aimed at you Nine if that is what you are thinking. Or does your husband really like frozen  @)(++(* nothing wrong with that if he does of course  8(0(*


I wasn't thinking your avatar was aimed at me directly... It amused me when I saw it, because, it is something my husband says any time I mention Dr Vincent Tabak....

As for whether he likes Frozen... you'd have to ask him yourself...  @)(++(*

Offline justsaying

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1751 on: September 26, 2018, 08:22:14 PM »

I wasn't thinking your avatar was aimed at me directly... It amused me when I saw it, because, it is something my husband says any time I mention Dr Vincent Tabak....

As for whether he likes Frozen... you'd have to ask him yourself...  @)(++(*

 8((()*/

Offline John

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1752 on: September 26, 2018, 09:47:09 PM »
I'm not sure if this is aimed at me but I'll answer for me.

It doesn't bother me so much. It fascinates me and intrigues me when people like you and Leonora with her blog and that Noel O'Gara (who seems awful to me!!) spend so much time and energy trying to prove the innocence of people that are clearly guilty. I'm always slightly in awe of those that dedicate themselves to trying to free someone who is likely to have been a victim of a miscarriage of justice. So when someone dedicates the same to someone as vile as Peter Sutcliffe or Vincent Tabak... then I'm confused.

I also get quite a lot of free time at work so reading this sort of thing helps the time pass.

I agree.

These last few pages have been interesting so please keep responses amiable and above all on topic.  I have removed the nasty comments and posts from this thread.

Its good that Nine has had an opportunity to debate this case with other interested parties so please don't spoil it for her.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 10:01:00 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1753 on: September 26, 2018, 10:08:22 PM »
Stupidly I would be honest and say exactly what happened... But that is me...  I would expect to be represented properly too...

I can work backwards on this , but it still makes no sense.....  I can work upside down on this and it won't make any difference....

I have wasted my time... I thought there was a point to the Justice System... But not the point I originally believed...

I won't change my mind until someone proves to me that Dr Vincent Tabak did indeed kill Joanna yeates.... I won't change my mind until DS Mark Saunders CCTV tape of Canygne Road on the 17th December 2010 is seen by the public, to prove one way or another whether or not Joanna Yeates actually arrived home.... Because Colin Port shouldn't be telling The Leveson Inquiry that the last known sighting of Joanna Yeates was at the Hophouse pub...

Meaning Joanna yeates either got home and is on the CCTV that DS Mark Saunders speaks of... Or there is  CCTV footage of a time at the HopHouse pub we know nothing about... Because that clip we have seen of Joanna yeates at the end of the street on the HopHouse Pub footage, doesn't clearly indicate who the person is on that footage.... So there has to be more footage, for Colin Pot to say that Joanna Yeates was last seen on the CCTV from the Hophouse pub.... And we are aware that they Police took the entire system away from The Hophouse Pub... Why do that if there wasn't anything else on the footage from that establishment...

So yes.. I will question the events at trial..... because they make no sense either!

You aren't alone nine!

"One seriously wonders how the two jurors who did not think Vincent Tabak guilty of the murder of Joanna Yeates feel now.

As he had admitted to strangling her, the question was one of doubt over his intent.

If he hadn’t meant to kill her, and if his version of events was to have been believed – an inexperienced man was invited into a lonely woman’s home and got flustered after she refused a kiss – then manslaughter would have been the right verdict. Presumably.

Judges lecture juries on the importance of certainty and warn them that if there is any doubt they must pull back.

Anyone who has actually served on a jury knows that, often, one or two powerful personalities hold sway.

I am glad we have juries but this trial has once again raised issues that many people find hard to comprehend.

The police felt that once they had found that Tabak liked imagery of women, especially young blonde women, being strangled, it should be brought up in court.

The judge ruled this evidence inadmissible

The prosecuting QC argued that Tabak’s penchant for what has been called ‘strangulation porn’ might shed light on the case.

The police also knew that Joanna’s body had been left in a pose copied from a film found on his computer.

Should this evidence have been admissible? Mr Justice Field said that although Tabak’s choice of viewing was reprehensible, it was not valuable enough to outweigh the prejudice it would cause his defence.

There are those who say this is justice at its exemplary best; that criminal trials  are often based on negotiations between lawyers and judges about what evidence can be put before a court.

Then there are the rest of us who are left somewhat mystified by the methods used by the legal establishment to ensure justice.

I do not for one minute think that the viewing of pornography or the use of prostitutes leads all men to commit sex crimes. If that were the case, every woman in the land would be in mortal danger.

But the Tabak case shows there are anomalies, to say the least. I complained about the treatment of Milly Dowler’s family during the trial of Milly’s killer, Levi Bellfield, and still fail to understand why her father’s viewing of pornography was relevant when he was a witness, not the defendant.

And we are all well aware that the ‘justice system’ continues to delve into the sexual histories of women who have been raped in ways that make many women feel violated once more.

The jury trying Tabak were swayed perhaps by the 43 injuries found on Joanna’s body – which in themselves implied something far more serious than a brush-off that went wrong.

But I am also disturbed by what we now define as simply ‘porn’.

Pornography used to mean sexually explicit material that men and women may or may not enjoy.

What we are talking about in the case of Tabak is explicitly violent imagery.

This absolute degradation of women, the more brutal the better, is only a few clicks away. It has little to do with sex and everything to do with hate – and many men as well as women are disgusted by it.

I am fairly libertarian about what consenting adults do – but seeing women being choked and undergoing appalling tortures sickens the stomach.

Films that feature children being sexually abused are regarded as evidence of a crime – but similar films involving women are not.

I am not asking for censorship but that the legal system understands this context. Does watching films of violence towards women mean the viewer will go on to commit such crimes? No. But woman-hating imagery surrounds us.

Tabak’s defence, that he misread Joanna’s signals, insults her memory. He took her life because he had indeed ‘misread’ the signals of what he liked to view. He took a life to make it real.

We too are guilty of misreading the signals if we simply dismiss this as ‘porn’. It is more akin to imagery of war crimes – these are photos from an unspoken war a few warped men are waging against women.

That surely is relevant.

But I am not a judge.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2055113/Vincent-Tabak-trial-Secrets-baffling-rules-justice.html
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 10:27:22 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #1754 on: September 26, 2018, 10:10:46 PM »
I disagree, the conviction is safe. Nine, you haven't answered my question and I've answered a lot of yours. Why do you think he has not appealed the conviction if he is not guilty of killing Jo?

Lets quantify lots.... You have posted in total on this site as far as I can see 124 posts to date... some of those posts are on other topics...

My questions are many... take 'The Hundred Questions topic... that I stopped asking question when I posted 1025 questions...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8053.0

But maybe you just mean the direct questions to you I posed?? Or are we counting every question within this whole discussion including the Hundred Questions Topic....

Just Asking....  ?{)(**