Author Topic: The Defence Will State Their Case  (Read 599834 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2625 on: October 21, 2018, 10:26:14 AM »

So how did the Birches manage to find her on a grass verge??  They were walking their dogs,  You are right mrswah, it is busy, and that is why I cannot understand how  Joanna Yeates was found on a grass verge on Longwood Lane close to the quarry entrance...

She had to be somewhere more inaccessible , thats why they used the fire truck, If they were trying to just shield the area, they could have used tarpaulin, as they did at the back of the Flats... But A fire truck with a winch suggests that they need to reach her from a difficult position...

The area that she was discovered changed before trial, she was on a golf course at one point... There were images detailing where she was found,

Media of course may get details wrong, but that wrong? 

If Joanna yeates was actually found on the grass verge as was sated at trial, she simply couldn't have lain there for over 8 days. So was she at another location before? making Longwood Lane the 3 scene of Crime....

If Joanna yeates was moved closer to the time of discovery, which really seems more than likely if we are to believe that Longwood Lane is actually the discovery sight, then Dr Vincent Tabak couldn't have moved her...

He was in Cambridge from the 23rd December 2010 , I believe and then went to Holland from Cambridge to see his family arriving back in Bristol on the 2nd January 2011..

How would Dr Vincent Tabak be able to move her again?? He wouldn't.....

There are 3 forensic tents on Longwood Lane at this time.... None of which were used to cover Joanna Yeates body....They used 7 fire appliances over 4 days, the parents were allowed to walk around the Scene of Crime on the 27th December 2010, there is no way that when the scene obviously hadn't finished being processed that any member of the public would be allowed to walk around or not even if they are family members...

All indicating that where Joanna Yeates had been discovered could not be on that Lane on a grass verge....

Her body had to be deposited over something... We have had a trial, where we are told, whether or nor we believe what Dr Vincent Tabak has stated on the stand, that Joanna Yeates was found on a grass verge on Longwood lane....
The Prosecution have gone with a grass verge on Longwood lane, The defence have gone with a grass verge on Longwood Lane, everything else suggests otherwise...

This is problematic for many reasons...  If the real deposition site is else where, what does that say about the evidence that was presented at trial, The DNA, The Blood evidence that are supposed to conclusively prove that Dr Vincent Tabak was the killer of Joanna Yeates...

The obvious piece of evidence that thens puts the rest of the evidence into question is the evidence I believe Tanya Nickson gave,


Tanya Nickson has told the jury of the location of the blood, and suggested that Dr Vincent Tabak was trying to lift Joanna Yeates over the wall so as to hide her body from sight.....

The more likely scenario is that, Joanna Yeates body was discovered elsewhere, and we have Tanya Nickson, telling us something that was NOT possible, bringing into question her evidence ... not only that bringing all of the blood and DNA evidence into question, therefore telling us that what Dr Vincent Tabak stated on the stand was a tale, that someone.. for whatever reason had him believing was true....

It can't have been true.... 7 Fire appliances working on that scene over 4 days suggests that (A) she was in a different location and (B) that they were needed to retrieve something else... They not only used regular fire trucks but, had used a safety boat also... A boat suggesting that Joanna Yeates was more likely in water,than on dry land...

At trial the Fire Service did not attend, anyone following such a case over the Christmas period could not fail to notice the fire service arriving at the scene, all lined up on Longwood Lane, a fire service, who's services were needed over 4 day, the 29th December 2010 being the last day that they were used...

So why were they not at trial?? why didn't The Defence or Prosecution call anyone from the Fire Service to testify to what they were doing at the scene on Christmas day??

It has been a long time being questioned the location of Joanna Yeates body in that area... Testimony from Andrew Mott and PC Martin faithful telling us that they had to stop a body from thawing.... Well where were they when they had been trying to stop this from happening??

We are now left with, a location that doesn't match the defendants testimony, blood evidence that cannot have been where it was claimed, discounting all of the forensic evidence as being collected correctly, each piece of this evidence putting into question Dr Vincent Tabak's testimony on the stand... Showing us we cannot trust what was stated on the stand by him.... As him lying about his Landlord wasn't accurate either, we have CJ's statements to prove that....

Where Dr Vincent Tabak got the information he told on the stand, I cannot say, but virtually all of it was in the media before trial...

Somebody isn't telling the truth.... I know Dr Vincent Tabak didn't tell the truth on the stand, but who else??

If the evidence of trying to implicate CJ, wasn't heard at trial, how was it used when it came to his sentence??  Dr Vincent Tabak, must have remembered helping CJ on that Saturday 18th December 2010 morning, to help push his car up the drive....

Yet Dr Vincent Tabak has apparently no recollection of this when he is at trial... He believes for some obscure reason that he tried to implicate his Landlord, when we know that simply isn't true...

Dr Vincent Tabak appears to have a false memory of events... clearly indicated by him agreeing that he tried to implicate CJ... What other false memories does Dr Vincent Tabak have to the whole episode??

The evidence suggest that they are all false memories (imo) So therefore why must we believe that Dr Vincent Tabak killed Joanna Yeates??

As for the Birches.... little to nothing is known of these people, they did not attend court, their statement was just read out.... Are they the figment of someone imagination?? Where did their statement come from?? The same with Andrew Mott and PC Martin Faithful, who both describe seeing Joanna Yeates that day... What of their evidence at trial, did they omit to tell us the real location of Joanna Yeates body??

Did Tanya Nickson also omit where abouts and on which wall she found her evidence??


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/dec/25/joanna-yeates-a-body-found

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8061.msg394112#msg394112

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/family-of-joanna-yeates-visit-spot-where-her-body-was-news-footage/693154970

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8834133/Vincent-Tabak-confessed-Joanna-Yeates-killing-in-emotional-meeting-with-prison-chaplain.html

Why do you think the fire service didn't testify at trial?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2626 on: October 21, 2018, 10:27:51 AM »
That is the big question.... appears the public themselves have been played....

You've moved the goal posts again

No but maybe I am starting to recognise I have been played...

First you claim it is YOU who has been played; NOW the public?

Suggesting cognitive dissonance?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 10:31:17 AM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2627 on: October 21, 2018, 10:34:09 AM »
Why do you think the fire service didn't testify at trial?

Evidence that is not introduced is not evidence.... By omitting these witness's no-one will question the testimony that Dr Vincent Tabak gave... no-one will question that the admission to Manslaughter also could not be true...

Omission is an extremely good way in which to get a jury to believe a story.. If they where not furnished with the full facts at trial, then they made a decision based on lies basically... Their judgement was founded on omissions, their beliefs were founded on untruths and a tale by the defendant that they shouldn't believe because they know and we know Dr Vincent Tabak lied...

Is it justice for anyone when evidence is omitted from a trial... is it Justice for Joanna Yeates if the wrong person is serving a sentence for a crime they didn't commit??

Is it again the lack of disclosure?? Or is it a case of everyone just been happy that someone is sentenced and put away for this crime no matter what.... Saves a lot of leg work....


Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2628 on: October 21, 2018, 10:40:37 AM »
Evidence that is not introduced is not evidence.... By omitting these witness's no-one will question the testimony that Dr Vincent Tabak gave... no-one will question that the admission to Manslaughter also could not be true...

Omission is an extremely good way in which to get a jury to believe a story.. If they where not furnished with the full facts at trial, then they made a decision based on lies basically... Their judgement was founded on omissions, their beliefs were founded on untruths and a tale by the defendant that they shouldn't believe because they know and we know Dr Vincent Tabak lied...

Is it justice for anyone when evidence is omitted from a trial... is it Justice for Joanna Yeates if the wrong person is serving a sentence for a crime they didn't commit??

Is it again the lack of disclosure?? Or is it a case of everyone just been happy that someone is sentenced and put away for this crime no matter what.... Saves a lot of leg work....

So in other words you're claiming the trial judge was deliberately neglectful?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 10:45:36 AM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2629 on: October 21, 2018, 10:46:53 AM »
Evidence that is not introduced is not evidence.... By omitting these witness's no-one will question the testimony that Dr Vincent Tabak gave... no-one will question that the admission to Manslaughter also could not be true...

Omission is an extremely good way in which to get a jury to believe a story.. If they where not furnished with the full facts at trial, then they made a decision based on lies basically... Their judgement was founded on omissions, their beliefs were founded on untruths and a tale by the defendant that they shouldn't believe because they know and we know Dr Vincent Tabak lied...

Is it justice for anyone when evidence is omitted from a trial... is it Justice for Joanna Yeates if the wrong person is serving a sentence for a crime they didn't commit??

Is it again the lack of disclosure?? Or is it a case of everyone just been happy that someone is sentenced and put away for this crime no matter what.... Saves a lot of leg work....

It's good to see you recognise Tabak lied btw

I've not read all your posts so don't know if you've said this before?
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2630 on: October 21, 2018, 10:56:57 AM »
Evidence that is not introduced is not evidence.... By omitting these witness's no-one will question the testimony that Dr Vincent Tabak gave... no-one will question that the admission to Manslaughter also could not be true...

Omission is an extremely good way in which to get a jury to believe a story.. If they where not furnished with the full facts at trial, then they made a decision based on lies basically... Their judgement was founded on omissions, their beliefs were founded on untruths and a tale by the defendant that they shouldn't believe because they know and we know Dr Vincent Tabak lied...

Is it justice for anyone when evidence is omitted from a trial... is it Justice for Joanna Yeates if the wrong person is serving a sentence for a crime they didn't commit??

Is it again the lack of disclosure?? Or is it a case of everyone just been happy that someone is sentenced and put away for this crime no matter what.... Saves a lot of leg work....

I don't agree with you that he's innocent but I do agree with you re omission being an extremely good way in which to get a jury to believe a story because of my experiences of Simon Hall's case. (The police initially believed JA's murder had been sexually motivated. They dropped this theory at some point and eventually went with 'a burglary gone wrong' motive, which after over 12 years turned out to be wrong)

Lack of disclosure definitely featured in the Simon Hall case. Just prior to his confession in 2013 I asked the CCRC, and police if I remember correctly, for transcripts of Jamie Barker's police interview; among other things. http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/he-didn-t-kill-joan-he-was-with-me-1-132848 According to Simon Hall in 2012, he and Barker committed a burglary at Zenith windows just prior to the murder. Barker also failed to mention this during the trial? Did he tell the police during his initial arrest and questioning (on the same day as Hall's arrest) and turned queens evidence?

As well as thinking of his old work-mate, Mr Barker is also now reflecting on the traumatic time he has endured himself.
He said: "It's been nine months of hell. I was never told by police why things were happening.
"We had forensics all over the house and we didn't know why.
"My mum was shaken even when we got to Norwich and then the first thing they came out with was 'What was it like when the forensics descended on your house?'
"She just broke down, but I couldn't speak to her because I'd just given my evidence. That was hard.
"

I also requested disclosure on Scott Doughty who was also a witness for the prosecution http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8523.msg491072#msg491072 in order to establish what items were seized following a raid at his home just prior to Hall's trial.

The jury in the Simon Hall case were not furnished with the full facts, Their judgement was founded on omissions, untruths and a tale of a burglary gone wrong.

You say you are interested in truth and justice but does that only apply to the Tabak case?

"Is it justice for anyone when evidence is omitted from a trial?"

"...is it a case of everyone just been happy that someone is sentenced and put away for this crime no matter what.... Saves a lot of leg work...."

Many lied or omitted evidence during Simon Hall's trial. Was this the reason he was able to maintain innocence for as long as he did?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 12:32:47 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2631 on: October 21, 2018, 12:25:29 PM »

So how did the Birches manage to find her on a grass verge??  They were walking their dogs,  You are right mrswah, it is busy, and that is why I cannot understand how  Joanna Yeates was found on a grass verge on Longwood Lane close to the quarry entrance...

She had to be somewhere more inaccessible , thats why they used the fire truck, If they were trying to just shield the area, they could have used tarpaulin, as they did at the back of the Flats... But A fire truck with a winch suggests that they need to reach her from a difficult position...

The area that she was discovered changed before trial, she was on a golf course at one point... There were images detailing where she was found,

Media of course may get details wrong, but that wrong? 

If Joanna yeates was actually found on the grass verge as was sated at trial, she simply couldn't have lain there for over 8 days. So was she at another location before? making Longwood Lane the 3 scene of Crime....

If Joanna yeates was moved closer to the time of discovery, which really seems more than likely if we are to believe that Longwood Lane is actually the discovery sight, then Dr Vincent Tabak couldn't have moved her...

He was in Cambridge from the 23rd December 2010 , I believe and then went to Holland from Cambridge to see his family arriving back in Bristol on the 2nd January 2011..

How would Dr Vincent Tabak be able to move her again?? He wouldn't.....

There are 3 forensic tents on Longwood Lane at this time.... None of which were used to cover Joanna Yeates body....They used 7 fire appliances over 4 days, the parents were allowed to walk around the Scene of Crime on the 27th December 2010, there is no way that when the scene obviously hadn't finished being processed that any member of the public would be allowed to walk around or not even if they are family members...

All indicating that where Joanna Yeates had been discovered could not be on that Lane on a grass verge....

Her body had to be deposited over something... We have had a trial, where we are told, whether or nor we believe what Dr Vincent Tabak has stated on the stand, that Joanna Yeates was found on a grass verge on Longwood lane....
The Prosecution have gone with a grass verge on Longwood lane, The defence have gone with a grass verge on Longwood Lane, everything else suggests otherwise...

This is problematic for many reasons...  If the real deposition site is else where, what does that say about the evidence that was presented at trial, The DNA, The Blood evidence that are supposed to conclusively prove that Dr Vincent Tabak was the killer of Joanna Yeates...

The obvious piece of evidence that thens puts the rest of the evidence into question is the evidence I believe Tanya Nickson gave,


Tanya Nickson has told the jury of the location of the blood, and suggested that Dr Vincent Tabak was trying to lift Joanna Yeates over the wall so as to hide her body from sight.....

The more likely scenario is that, Joanna Yeates body was discovered elsewhere, and we have Tanya Nickson, telling us something that was NOT possible, bringing into question her evidence ... not only that bringing all of the blood and DNA evidence into question, therefore telling us that what Dr Vincent Tabak stated on the stand was a tale, that someone.. for whatever reason had him believing was true....

It can't have been true.... 7 Fire appliances working on that scene over 4 days suggests that (A) she was in a different location and (B) that they were needed to retrieve something else... They not only used regular fire trucks but, had used a safety boat also... A boat suggesting that Joanna Yeates was more likely in water,than on dry land...

At trial the Fire Service did not attend, anyone following such a case over the Christmas period could not fail to notice the fire service arriving at the scene, all lined up on Longwood Lane, a fire service, who's services were needed over 4 day, the 29th December 2010 being the last day that they were used...

So why were they not at trial?? why didn't The Defence or Prosecution call anyone from the Fire Service to testify to what they were doing at the scene on Christmas day??

It has been a long time being questioned the location of Joanna Yeates body in that area... Testimony from Andrew Mott and PC Martin faithful telling us that they had to stop a body from thawing.... Well where were they when they had been trying to stop this from happening??

We are now left with, a location that doesn't match the defendants testimony, blood evidence that cannot have been where it was claimed, discounting all of the forensic evidence as being collected correctly, each piece of this evidence putting into question Dr Vincent Tabak's testimony on the stand... Showing us we cannot trust what was stated on the stand by him.... As him lying about his Landlord wasn't accurate either, we have CJ's statements to prove that....

Where Dr Vincent Tabak got the information he told on the stand, I cannot say, but virtually all of it was in the media before trial...

Somebody isn't telling the truth.... I know Dr Vincent Tabak didn't tell the truth on the stand, but who else??

If the evidence of trying to implicate CJ, wasn't heard at trial, how was it used when it came to his sentence??  Dr Vincent Tabak, must have remembered helping CJ on that Saturday 18th December 2010 morning, to help push his car up the drive....

Yet Dr Vincent Tabak has apparently no recollection of this when he is at trial... He believes for some obscure reason that he tried to implicate his Landlord, when we know that simply isn't true...

Dr Vincent Tabak appears to have a false memory of events... clearly indicated by him agreeing that he tried to implicate CJ... What other false memories does Dr Vincent Tabak have to the whole episode??

The evidence suggest that they are all false memories (imo) So therefore why must we believe that Dr Vincent Tabak killed Joanna Yeates??

As for the Birches.... little to nothing is known of these people, they did not attend court, their statement was just read out.... Are they the figment of someone imagination?? Where did their statement come from?? The same with Andrew Mott and PC Martin Faithful, who both describe seeing Joanna Yeates that day... What of their evidence at trial, did they omit to tell us the real location of Joanna Yeates body??

Did Tanya Nickson also omit where abouts and on which wall she found her evidence??


https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/dec/25/joanna-yeates-a-body-found

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8061.msg394112#msg394112

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/family-of-joanna-yeates-visit-spot-where-her-body-was-news-footage/693154970

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8834133/Vincent-Tabak-confessed-Joanna-Yeates-killing-in-emotional-meeting-with-prison-chaplain.html

I disagree
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2632 on: October 21, 2018, 01:38:46 PM »
I would appreciate someone taking a proper look at this case and why it makes no sense....

I would still like to know where Dr Vincent Tabak confessed, and how this confession was documented... what was the date of this confession... You know simple things like that.. I could confess I am having tea with the Queen right now.... Doesn't make it true though does it!

Why do you appear fixated on Tabak's confession?

When you joined the forum this is what you posted

"There are many miscarriages of justice and their are many people who make false confessions, Good strong evidence is needed to support these confessions that people make.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7744.msg497094#msg497094
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 01:42:13 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2633 on: October 21, 2018, 01:53:07 PM »
I wish someone would answer my questions Stephanie, and thanks for your response, nice to see someone else post...

 ?{)(**

When Sandra Lean attempted to throw me under the bus with regards Simon Hall's confession http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=8086.285 she showed the lengths she was prepared to go in order to attempt to cover up the error of her ways.

I did try to clear this up before but was attacked and the thread was derailed before I had the chance http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.msg491134#msg491134

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.msg491328#msg491328

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.msg491362#msg491362

On 10th January 2017 Sandra Lean stated:

"You see, to this day, we have only Stephanie’s word about the circumstances leading up to the confession, the circumstances of the confession itself, the state of Simon’s mental and emotional well-being (or otherwise), the content of the confession etc. We have no information about how the confession was given or accepted (it was reported at the inquest that he “told his wife” who then “told him to tell the prison.” I have no idea if that is true or not – it was reported in the media, after all.) I’m not inclined to simply take Stephanie’s word (or anyone else’s for that matter) at face value.
But, of course, that is my opinion, one I’m perfectly entitled to hold"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=595.msg429131#msg429131

Based on the above Nine, what reason would the Yeates family have to lie about Tabak's confession? Do you believe they would want the wrong man in prison for the murder of their daughter? Did they strike you as the type of people to just accept any old thing they were told by the police? Do you think they would have remained silent for all these years if they had any doubts?

And why haven't Tabak's family spoken out? Didn't they hire a publicist in the early days when they thought their brother had been "scapegoated?" 

You've ultimately claimed that everyone apart from Vincent Tabak was involved in some kind of conspiracy?

You may be able to accept a confession, or whatever you want to call it Justsaying.... But the facts should support said confession, and if Joanna Yeates did not reach home on Friday 17th December 2010, then I contend that Dr Vincent Tabak did not kill her as was stated at trial...

I don't see that. I see anomalies in the case similar to other cases.

An anomaly is something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 02:36:35 PM by Stephanie »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline mrswah

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Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2634 on: October 21, 2018, 02:39:40 PM »
When Sandra Lean attempted to throw me under the bus with regards Simon Hall's confession http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=8086.285 she showed the lengths she was prepared to go in order to attempt to cover up the error of her ways.

I did try to clear this up before but was attacked and the thread was derailed before I had the chance http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.msg491134#msg491134

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.msg491328#msg491328

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8060.msg491362#msg491362

On 10th January 2017 Sandra Lean stated:

"You see, to this day, we have only Stephanie’s word about the circumstances leading up to the confession, the circumstances of the confession itself, the state of Simon’s mental and emotional well-being (or otherwise), the content of the confession etc. We have no information about how the confession was given or accepted (it was reported at the inquest that he “told his wife” who then “told him to tell the prison.” I have no idea if that is true or not – it was reported in the media, after all.) I’m not inclined to simply take Stephanie’s word (or anyone else’s for that matter) at face value.
But, of course, that is my opinion, one I’m perfectly entitled to hold"
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=595.msg429131#msg429131

Based on the above Nine, what reason would the Yeates family have to lie about Tabak's confession? Do you believe they would want the wrong man in prison for the murder of their daughter? Did they strike you as the type of people to just accept any old thing they were told by the police? Do you think they would have remained silent for all these years if they had any doubts?

And why haven't Tabak's family spoken out? Didn't they hire a publicist in the early days when they thought their brother had been "scapegoated?" 

You've ultimately claimed that everyone apart from Vincent Tabak was involved in some kind of conspiracy?

I don't see that. I see anomalies in the case similar to other cases.

An anomaly is something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.


Who has ever suggested that the Yeates family lied about anything?  I would imagine that they trusted the police implicitly,believed everything they were told,  and just wanted the right man imprisoned for their daughter's horrific murder.

As for the Tabak family, who knows why they have not spoken out? 

Perhaps they do now think he's guilty.
Perhaps they think they will make things worse for VT in prison if they speak out.
Perhaps they have been told not to.
Perhaps they will speak out one day.

We just don't know do we?

As for Sandra Lean, for what it's worth, I think she asks the right questions-----------

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2635 on: October 21, 2018, 02:56:16 PM »

Who has ever suggested that the Yeates family lied about anything?  I would imagine that they trusted the police implicitly,believed everything they were told,  and just wanted the right man imprisoned for their daughter's horrific murder.

As for the Tabak family, who knows why they have not spoken out? 

Perhaps they do now think he's guilty.
Perhaps they think they will make things worse for VT in prison if they speak out.
Perhaps they have been told not to.
Perhaps they will speak out one day.

We just don't know do we?

As for Sandra Lean, for what it's worth, I think she asks the right questions-----------

Sandra Lean can keep asking questions till the cows come home, it's not her questions I have a problem with.

I think Nine has put forward a good case but it's clear to me she's been played.
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline mrswah

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Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2636 on: October 21, 2018, 04:08:18 PM »
Sandra Lean can keep asking questions till the cows come home, it's not her questions I have a problem with.

I think Nine has put forward a good case but it's clear to me she's been played.

By whom?

Offline Nicholas

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2637 on: October 21, 2018, 05:32:28 PM »
By whom?

For starters, by whomever or whatever raised her doubts re Tabak's confession/guilty plea to manslaughter
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline [...]

Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2638 on: October 22, 2018, 11:47:58 AM »
Countdown To Murder

10:54 of video... DCI Phil Jones
Quote
Whilst he was in America, he visited escorts and he was searching for escorts, whilst he was in California, and also we know on a business trip to Newcastle, that from a business telephone that he was using, contacted an escort agency, in the Newcastle area.

Which Newcastle where??


Newcastle, Kwazulu Natal, South Africa

Newcastle-under-Lyme, UK

New Castle, Indiana, America

New Castle, Pennsylvania, America

Newcastle West , County Limerick in place

Newcastle, County Dublin , town in South County Dublin

Newcastle, County Galway

Newcastle, County Tipperary

Newcastle, County Wicklow , town in County Wicklow

Newcastle, Oldcastle, County Meath

England

Newcastle, Herefordshire

Newcastle, Shropshire (Newcastle on Clun), town in the district of South Shropshire

Wales

Little Newcastle (Casnewydd-Bach), Pembrokeshire

Newcastle, Bridgend , Glamorgan

Newcastlstle, County Downe Emlyn , Ceredigion place between (Cardiganshire) and Carmarthenshire

Newcastle, Monmouthshire , town in Monmouthshire

U.S.A.

New Castle, Alabama, Jefferson County

Newcastle, Arkansas, Johnson Township

Newcastle, California, city in Placer County

New Castle, Colorado, in Garfield County Municipality

New Castle Hundred, a unified district in New Castle County, Delaware

New Castle, Delaware, city of New Castle County – and County of New Castle

New Castle, Illinois, Carrier Mills Township

New Castle, Kentucky, city in Henry County

Newcastle, Maine, town in Lincoln County –  part of  Damariscotta-Newcastle

New Castle, Missouri, Jefferson Township

Newcastle, Nebraska , city in Dixon County

New Castle, New Hampshire , city in Rockingham County

New Castle, New York , town in Westchester County

Newcastle Township, Coshocton County, Ohio, city in Coshocton County

New Castle, Ohio, Belmont County

Newcastle, Oklahoma, city in McClain County

New Castle, North Carolina, Wilkes County

New Castle Township, Pennsylvania, in Schuylkill County town

South Newcastle, Pennsylvania, Lawrence County

Newcastle, Texas, city in Young County

Newcastle, Utah, a unified district in Iron County

New Castle, Virginia, town in Craig County

Newcastle, Washington State, city in King County

Newcastle, Wyoming, city in Weston County

Canada – Newcastle, New Brunswick , a district in the Canadian city Miramichi

Jamaica – Newcastle

Barbados – Newcastle

Australia
Newcastle Waters, Northern Territory


Nothing is clearly defined, it is just left up your imagination to fill in the pieces, Clarity is needed....  This information that DCI Phil Jones has decided to share with us, was neither used in court or it''s sources were never proven... Newcastle... I presume most would think Newcastle England... But it doesn't have to be, Dr Vincent Tabak travels worldwide with the job he does and therefore Newcastle could be anywhere...

The business phone that he used... Was it one provided by Buro Happold, or a seperate phone that he had and that he used only for business, or did he use this mobile phone for other purposes??....

It was never established at trial which phone any texts came from, with the text messages playing a crucial part in this case, we need to establish, which phone sent which message, but there is no distinction between phones that Dr Vincent Tabak, may or may not have used....

What other information was held on the business phone that DCI Phil Jones speaks of??

It extremely important... A time line was established for Dr Vincent Tabak's movement  based on  what I believed at the time his PRIVATE mobile phone... There where gaps that the prosecution have let us know... There was a gap of an hour that apparently Dr Vincent Tabak sat in his Flat with the body of Joanna Yeates....

If the business phone was not introduced into trial, then we have no idea of it's contents, we have no idea, if there are phone calls or text messages at the relevant time, again putting Dr Vincent Tabak's testimony into question...

If Dr Vincent Tabak has no recollection of aiding CJ on that Saturday morning, what else has he forgotten about,... No witness's were called that could place Dr Vincent Tabak anywhere, yes we had statements read out, but nothing verified these statements...

What did Dr Vincent Tabak do on that weekend??

Firstly we need to establish which phone the Police gathered their information from??  Or as suggested by DCI Phil Jones it was two phones, Is the information we know of a mixture from the two phones?

How bored was Dr Vincent Tabak, bored with still doing work, when he would rather be at a party with Tanja?

No-one has questioned why Dr Vincent Tabak didn't attend Tanja's work party, many time people take their partners to such an event, we have assumed again that it was strictly for employees seeing as Dr Vincent Tabak didn't go... But what if he simply had more work to complete, he had after all not long returned from America on a business trip...

The emails he sent Tanja regularly, did they come from his phone?? A laptop?? or the business phone ?? We are not told... Important information again is just left up to our imaginations, as we ourselves fill in the blanks, deciding, just on the evidence at trial, that a story played out in a particular way...

We are well aware that crucial evidence was omitted.... CJ, telling us that Dr Vincent Tabak helped him on the Saturday, move his car from the drive, we know from CJ that the car was parked on the road on the Friday evening.. Proving that Dr Vincent Tabak didn't lie about CJ or try to incriminate him...

The omissions in this case could dramatically change the complexion of this case... The omissions that could prove one way or another Dr Vincent Tabak's movements on Friday 17th December 2010 through to Monday 20th December 2010, covering the critical time span...

As I said there was a whole hour unaccounted for whilst Dr Vincent Tabak was in his flat... a whole hour where the prosecution where just happy to accept that Dr Vincent tabak was actually in his flat.... I always wondered why they accepted this seeing as there was no evidence at trial to cover this hour....

Was he ringing business partners? Was he talking to someone?? was he texting someone, was he just messing on this business phone for an hour??

The business phone has to be important, the business phone  could have been used to send the texts to Tanja... The business phone may have had auto correct on it, sending the "Crisis" message....

Unless we can establish which phone/phones were used by Dr Vincent Tabak over that weekend, how can we confidently establish his movements... A business phone that we do not know if Dr Vincent Tabak had from new... A business phone we do not know if anyone else had ever used or had access to... a business phone that could still have evidence upon it...


We have Lyndsey Farmery, the powerpoint pointer, whom explains to the jury with her slide show that Dr Vincent Tabak sent  XYZ message at XXY time... that Dr Vincent Tabak did XYZ search at XYZ time...  I say she showed us the text messages , but I cannot be 100% sure, she was the computer expert that took the stand in this trial,.. If Lyndsey Farmery didn't analysis Dr Vincent Tabak's mobile phones who did??  The 1300 page document, did it have which phone which action was done from??

Did Lyndsey Farmery also examine the mobile phones of Dr Vincent Tabak??/ Did Lyndsey Farmery omit the fact that the information from devices that Dr Vincent Tabak used was not all presented at trial... 

There should have been miles and miles of information.... Highlighted for the jury to show the relevant times... But i am not sure if that was what happened... I am under the impression that what was seem as incriminating was the only evidence that the jury saw....

Within Lyndsey Farmery's testimony, did she inform the jury that one message had come from Dr Vincent Tabak's personal phone and an other message had come from Dr Vincent Tabak's business phone?? Did she keep them illuminated of the full facts... Or did she too omit evidence in this case??

A slight remark made on video, keeps me questioning the case, keeps me asking what was done for Dr Vincent Tabak... keeps me wondering just how much evidence was omitted and how much of this evidence would have changed the events of May/ October 2011

More needs to be know of this business phone of Dr Vincent Tabak's , more needs to be understood, more needs to be examined as to its full contents and usage, by Dr Vincent Tabak or anyone else...

It is always easy to go with the crowd, it is always easy to believe a story, but when huge amounts have been omitted , then the story can and does change dramatically...

I want to go back to one more issue.... It was established at trial that Dr Vincent Tabak did not know Joanna Yeates, which has been questioned before.. If Dr Vincent Tabak doesn't remember the incident with CJ... what else doesn't he remember??

Did any of these phones have Joanna Yeates as a contact?? It may seem an odd question, but it is a possibility.... I believe that Buro Happold were a client of BDP, they worked together , they got together.... The connection between BDP and Buro Happold has been played down.... A connection one couldn't fail to notice, if one was prepared to look...

A connection that would have been apparent to anyone working for these companies... So did Dr Vincent Tabak ever come into contact with Joanna Yeates in a work capacity??  We don't know... Was this why Dr Vincent Tabak made searches?/ was he concerned just like everyone else whom had come into contact with Joanna Yeates, keeping abreast of this case as it unfolded...

It was made out at trial, that Joanna Yeates and Dr Vincent Tabak were complete strangers, this may be true, but what if it wasn't the case? what if in fact they did know each other. Or had come into contact because of work??

This again would change the complexion of the trial...  It has always been maintained that it was a spur of the moment thing... That he suddenly without any reason attacked his neighbour...

Had Dr Vincent Tabak actually been around to flat 1 before?/ had Dr Vincent Tabak worked with Joanna Yeates before??

Here are 2 quotes...  from different publications:
Telegraph:
Quote
He claimed Miss Yeates had invited him into her flat after seeing him walk past her kitchen window as he was heading to the supermarket. He told the court: “I waved to her and she waved back.”

Sally Ramage .. Cleggs opening speech..
Quote
Vincent was walking towards his car when he passed Joanna’s kitchen window. She saw
him, there was a nod of acknowledgement and she beckoned him to come in. She had
opened the door and invited him in.

Clegg clearly telling us that there was a nod of acknowledgement... A nod that suggest that they did know each other...

If we go back to who CJ saw at the gate, who were these people?? did these people enter or leave Joanna Yeates flat.. Did Dr Vincent Tabak in fact enter Joanna yeates flat??

To feel responsible, may be interpreted in another way... for example if someone else was in Joanna Yeates flat and had been there with Dr Vincent Tabak and he had left her with them... It's an idea, but I am trying to put forward why Dr Vincent Tabak makes certain statements at trial... yet has such a vague recollection of events....

I have questioned many times why Joanna Yeates would open the door to a complete stranger... it doesn't seem a likely scenario... Had Dr Vincent Tabak popped in to say hello, then gone to ASDA?? we don't know...

Because we do not know for a fact, the exact time and day of Joanna Yeates death, it is difficult to establish when she was killed.... It is easy enough to have a tale around the apparent events, but the omissions make me question all the events of that time..

The screams are at random times, some when she is clearly not at home, and the scream that Kingdon heard mid morning on Saturday the 18th December 2010...

What proves that Joanna Yeates was dead within minutes of arriving home?? Nothing ... Nothing that Dr Delaney told us on the stand quantifies this... We only have the tale from Dr Vincent Tabak on the stand to tell us this... a tale which I do not believe....

In actual fact Dr Delaney gives us evidence to the contrary... Dr Delaney puts Joanna Yeates in different clothes... now we can interpret that in many ways....  She had time when she got home to change her clothes to the Pink Flower patterned Top, which she obviously wasn't wearing at The Ram that evening.... discounting the idea that she was attacked as soon as she arrived home... She was re-dressed by someone or more than one person, which no evidence of that was brought to trial... Or that simply she had slept in the flat on the Friday night and had changed her clothes in the morning....

There is no satisfactory explanation of the change of clothing given at trial.... Not even the jury questioned this...

So at what time and date , was Joanna Yeates alive??  empty stomach contents, will not prove anything... But a change of clothing gives us a clearer idea, that Joanna Yeates was not attacked immediately as has been suggested...

What really took place at 44, Canygne Road, what was it that made Ann Reddrop as early as late December 2010, see Dr Vincent Tabak as a suspect??  Was it really an anonymous phone call pointing the finger in his direction, that made her pursue him as a suspect, a phone call from a person that has not been identified, a phone call that was not played at trial, a phone call that changed many lives...

Was there a rush to judgement, was every avenue checked and checked again... Was a robust investigation done at the time??

I would say not... Based just on what I have found out since Dr Vincent Tabak's conviction.... Based on the video evidence of the people that were closest to the case in one way or another....




https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8839702/Vincent-Tabak-Joanna-flirted-with-me-and-I-made-a-clumsy-pass-at-her.html

http://www.criminal-lawyer.org.uk/39-CLN-JAN-2012.pdf

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Re: The Defence Will State Their Case
« Reply #2639 on: October 22, 2018, 12:14:45 PM »
It has been pointed out that I have come up with wild and wacky scenario's whilst I have written on here... But this has been a work in progress... This has been painstakingly done, whilst i try and dissect the information that I have uncovered..

I have been left with massive amounts of information that has been omitted, making it possible to come up with any kind of scenario, in this case...

But if I stick with the facts... If I stick with the video's etc... I have evidence as to what  may have taken place... I have evidence of witness's at the time... I have  evidence as to which pieces of evidence had been omitted...

So yes I agree some of my posts appear a little wild... But put aside some of my idea's and concentrate, on the picture as a whole of what I have discovered not just on my own , but with others input to certain information....

My frustrations at earlier stages of writing on here, gave way to me speculating at possible scenario's.. made me speculate as to what may or may not have taken place...

But I believe I have provided evidence that does pose questions as to what really happened to Joanna Yeates.... questions as to why Dr Vincent Tabak had no memory of certain events.... Questions as to why Ann Redropp pursued Dr Vincent Tabak so early on ... and questions as to why certain witness's were never throughly questioned as to what they knew....

It is only by going over and over again on what is stated in video, that clear question can be posed... That questions we clearly can see should have been asked....

That clearly what was stated on the stand by Dr Vincent Tabak was a story... A story that was a lie....

I have been sent on wild goose chases... I have followed suggestions, and picked up from such suggestions ideas that do not sit with what is a reasonable account of events.....

But once I have got back on track... I believe I have clearly indicated that, evidence had and was omitted.... evidence that proves Dr Vincent Tabak believed that he implicated his landlord CJ.... evidence he believes was fact...

When in fact... as demonstrated... he didn't lie about CJ... He didn't implicate CJ... But he lied on the stand that he did!!


Edit.... I must apologise, that you all have had to be apart of my wild and wacky ideas, but the simple fact is that I do not know anyone personally who is interested in this case... I do not know anyone whom I could bounce idea off... So you all have had to be a part of my process, of trying to decipher, the information that is available about this case....