The Defence Will State Their Case

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Sentencing and Ancillary Orders
On 1 April 2014 the Sentencing Council issued revised guidelines for all sexual offences including those concerning indecent images of children. They simplified the images into three categories of seriousness:

Category A - Images involving penetrative sexual activity, sexual activity with an animal or sadism.
Category B - Images involving non-penetrative sexual activity.
Category C - Indecent images not falling within categories A or B.

Dr Vincent Tabak is prosecuted in 2015 for the indecent images that fell into various categories, yet as the examples above prove, the ambiguity may be applied..

Category (A) covers 3 areas, which I wasn't aware of... So Which part of category (A) was Dr Vincent Tabak charged with, if for instance the prosecution has not looked at these images and is informed that they fall in category (A), which covers sadism...

If someone watches porn or is into Sadomasochism... Is it actually feasible to be charged under the Category (A) of this act, therefore having nothing to do with children?

If a prosecutor, takes the word of an expert, who is the expert??

Who ensures that the images are what they are supposed to be if no-one is looking at them and the Category, is what is important in these cases??

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/indecent-and-prohibited-images-children

[Real justice]

Yes, on first glance this stood out..

but it is not mandatory for prosecutors to view the images in all cases in order to prosecute.

How is that even possible??

Who tells them that these images are of what category??

In what case do prosecutors not need to look at these images....

If a prosecutor is prosecuting a person and has the ability to deprive someone of their liberty, shouldn't they have at the very least looked at the evidence in question....

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/indecent-and-prohibited-images-children


I admit it cannot be a pleasant experience for the prosecutor, but surely they should have viewed any evidence that could be brought against any individual, in any prosecution....

They use COPINE scale, first brought out in Ireland and used in the UK, Combating Paedophile Information Networks in Europe". Very interesting how it was first brought out by Staff members, you seem to question most things that are brought out to help protect our children.

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They use COPINE scale, first brought out in Ireland and used in the UK, Combating Paedophile Information Networks in Europe". Very interesting how it was first brought out by Staff members, you seem to question most things that are brought out to help protect our children.

I agree, there should be robust laws to protect children, that has never been in question, my query is based on those who may find themselves at the wrong end of the law, and the law is not clear enough to clarify exactly what said person accused has actually done, if it is possible for the prosecution not to look at the images, then that in itself is open to abuse...
Especially when category (A) covers 3 different crimes..

That is all I am saying....

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They use COPINE scale, first brought out in Ireland and used in the UK, Combating Paedophile Information Networks in Europe". Very interesting how it was first brought out by Staff members, you seem to question most things that are brought out to help protect our children.

Who made the COPINE Scale??

I have found that it's on the unofficial website of listed paedophiles..

Indecent Images offence Category

On the 31st December 2013 the Sentencing Council [SC] published “Sexual Offences Definitive Guideline” [the New Guideline] which applies to all offenders aged 18 and older sentenced on or after the 1st April 2014.

This new scale to determine the indecency of child abuse images in UK courts. It now replaces the 5 levels of the ‘Copine scale’

The levels of seriousness the court will determine the offence category using the table below: –

https://theukdatabase.com/uk-child-abusers-named-and-shamed/childhood-abuses/paedophile-party-members/new-scale-used-by-courts-for-child-abuse-images/

Who on earth invented The Copine Scale?

78 [2003] 1 Cr App R 28 CA
79 The Copine project (Combating Paedophile information networks in Europe) at the University of Cork developed a scale to categorise child abuse
images. It has ten levels and was originally developed to look at the psychological approach to pictures rather than for use in courts.
80 CPS charging guidance indecent photographs of children http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/indecent_photographs_of_children/#a03

https://consult.justice.gov.uk/sentencing-council/indecent-images-children/supporting_documents/sexual%20offences_Indecent%20images%20of%20children.pdf


It has ten levels and was originally developed to look at the psychological approach to pictures rather than for use in courts.

So not for court use.....

Was the Copine Scale ever used in court?

[Real justice]

I agree, there should be robust laws to protect children, that has never been in question, my query is based on those who may find themselves at the wrong end of the law, and the law is not clear enough to clarify exactly what said person accused has actually done, if it is possible for the prosecution not to look at the images, then that in itself is open to abuse...
Especially when category (A) covers 3 different crimes..

That is all I am saying....

You ever been a victim of this sort of abuse? Ask the victims what help they get, ask the victims how they cope with it the rest of their life’s, ask the parents how they stop blaming themselves, it works both ways trust me.

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Here's another question.... if you chuck the word paedophile at someone, and they are into S&M, then legally have you libelled them?? seeing as Category (A) covers more than one subject??

Does that mean someone could 'say or link' someone to being a paedophile, simply by using an ambiguous law and legally could be seen as accurate...

Therefore, Man Z likes S&M, but someone dislikes MAN Z ( I'll call him  man Y)and wants to cause him an issue, so tweets or connects this man to a known Padeophile, and everyone therefore believes that MAN Z is a Paedophile..  Man Y could confidently state  that Man Z comes under category (A)...
and everyone knows what that means... So would assume it was true and accurate...

But as I have found out today, that is not the case....

So Man Y, knows the law and theoretically Man Z would come under category (A), so has man Y committed a crime? As it is an interpretation of the law he/she may have used...

Once called a paedophile, it sticks, no matter whom you are...

And everyone is always happy to look for the worst in anyone... And point the finger...

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You ever been a victim of this sort of abuse? Ask the victims what help they get, ask the victims how they cope with it the rest of their life’s, ask the parents how they stop blaming themselves, it works both ways trust me.

As you know nothing about me, you have no idea, if that is applicable...

All I am trying to do is get clarity... simple really, not to undermine the seriousness of such offences... And you are correct it does work both ways... That is why clarity is important, so anyone doesn't find themselves at the wrong end of the law...

[nina]

VT was making his own porn pictures, for gods sake.

What do you have to say about that?

[Real justice]

As you know nothing about me, you have no idea, if that is applicable...

All I am trying to do is get clarity... simple really, not to undermine the seriousness of such offences... And you are correct it does work both ways... That is why clarity is important, so anyone doesn't find themselves at the wrong end of the law...

I don’t want to know who you are, if you need clarity and don’t understand the difference between right and wrong regarding sexual offences, or the viewing of child pornography, you ought to be on a different website and educate yourself about law instead of preaching what you don’t know.


Pedo
that causes the person to have a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent boys and girls.


Sex offender

A sex offender is a person who has been convicted of a sex-related crime, which may or may not involve a person who is considered a child under the law.

I WOULD SAY THAT TABAK FITS THE BILL FOR BOTH THESE

[Real justice]

VT was making his own porn pictures, for gods sake.

What do you have to say about that?

Doesn't count Nina, there was no time stamp with it 

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I don’t want to know who you are, if you need clarity and don’t understand the difference between right and wrong regarding sexual offences, or the viewing of child pornography, you ought to be on a different website and educate yourself about law instead of preaching what you don’t know.


Pedo
that causes the person to have a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent boys and girls.


Sex offender

A sex offender is a person who has been convicted of a sex-related crime, which may or may not involve a person who is considered a child under the law.

I WOULD SAY THAT TABAK FITS THE BILL FOR BOTH THESE

I hoped that people here may have the education and ability to understand law...   I have only questioned a conviction that hasn't sat right with me... that is all...

And whether or not you want to know whom I may be, is irrelevant..

If people do not question the law, then the law itself can never be challenged.. What is wrong with questioning?

[Real justice]

I’ve got the perfect job for Tabak if ever he is released, he could be an interpreter for this man Kim Jong-I un  ee

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VT was making his own porn pictures, for gods sake.

What do you have to say about that?

Didn't we cover that before... That if you had the ability to make images of pseudo porn, a charge could be brought... I think if I remember correctly I did indicate that most had the ability to do this seeing as "Paint" was a built in program... And with the evolution of many apps that can change an image, it can cover everyone in that capacity...

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Checks and balances...

No matter what case we can talk about, no matter how many Police or people in the judiciary, you cannot tell me that some people in various professions do not have their own agenda's....

That they have all been Psychologically evaluated and are 100% honest through and through...

That is not happening....

So questioning why something happens is important... And the law needs to be seen to be making an example of people who abuse their positions..

What ever case it is....

NB: I am applying this to ALL cases, and not any individual case....

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I’ve got the perfect job for Tabak if ever he is released, he could be an interpreter for this man Kim Jong-I un  ee

Does Dr Vincent Tabak speak Korean? is that what you are trying to say??