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Jeremy Bamber case document library => Jeremy Bamber case documents library. => Julie Mugford statements and diary => Topic started by: Admin on April 04, 2012, 12:45:03 PM
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Julie kept a diary of events which occurred prior to and following the murders. It is clear from her entries that the whole situation was beginning to get to her and that Bamber was beginning to provide less support the longer time went on.
In the end she realised that Jeremy Bamber was capable of murder and had become afraid of her. It was time to confide in someone.
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Julie kept a diary of events which occurred prior to and following the murders. It is clear from her entries that the whole situation was beginning to get to her and that Bamber was beginning to provide less support the longer time went on.
In the end she realised that Jeremy Bamber was capable of murder and had become afraid of her. It was time to confide in someone.
Are you going to post extracts from the diaries like you did with Julie Mugford's statements? I think everyone will probably find them extremely interesting and we will be able to gauge for ourselves just what sort of a life Julie had with Bamber.
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I feel those diaries are quite damming in regards to Julie Mugford in as much as we have seen from them so far. The talk about speaking privately in the bathroom. Why do innocent people have to talk privately, why all the talk about the house being bugged.
Was Julie Mugford in on it all along I ask myself?
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Thanks for putting these up admin I find them intriguing every time i read them. It never ceases to amaze me how anyone could think Jeremy bamber is innocent after everything that julie had written about him.
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I feel those diaries are quite damming in regards to Julie Mugford in as much as we have seen from them so far. The talk about speaking privately in the bathroom. Why do innocent people have to talk privately, why all the talk about the house being bugged.
Was Julie Mugford in on it all along I ask myself?
Why did Julie write down and then thought better of it "that he would think clearer"?
Why did she not query why he had not been to bed?
Why did he need to think clearer?
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Those diaries put Mugford right in it as far as I can see. She obviously knew what he had done yet went to view those bodies. When she says she was frightened and worried about her statement, Bamber reassured her and told her that was why he had told her certain things over the phone.
That stinks of a conspiracy to me. You have to realise that Bamber had to refute saying such a thing at the trial. If he tried to implicate Mugford he would have put himself right in it.
At the end of the day it was either him or both of them....he chose the former since he thought he would win on appeal. I bet he's sorry now??
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They sure are dynamite, unfortunately for Mr Testosterone they do absolutely zilch for his case other than nail it down even further.
I was just pondering the whole Mugford thing this morning and what she said in her statements and now in the diaries. Thanx btw admin for a wonderful job!!
Where is the... "I wonder who could have done such a thing?" comment from any of them. Where is there any doubt expressed as to who could be involved. Where is the denials???
Fact is folks, there isn't any. There is no expression of wonder, fear or anything else relating to any third party in any of those documents except that one reference to MacDonald which we know was the seed planted in Mugford's head during their first meeting at Goldhanger.
There was no worried for their safety, no might need a police guard at their house in Goldhanger or any police protection. It was all put down to Sheila and her having committed suicide after shooting the others.
Fact is there never was any third party to the act but I will let you into a little secret. Mugford wasn't the only one to have PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of the impending slaughter.
Guess who??
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I am surprised how much Mugford knew and was told by Bamber within hours of the murders. I thought she was more detached and found out details from Bamber over a few days. Not secret whispers from Bamber as soon as the police took her to Goldhanger.
She is damn lucky Bamber didn't get caught by some other means before she came forward; she would have been another Maxine Carr! I don't know how she went to see the dead bodies in the morgue when she knew Bamber was responsible!
One thing is without doubt though to me; Bamber did it. No frigging way did Julie make all that up and incriminate herself so badly. One mitigating factor in her favour is she couldn't possibly have known Bamber was such a psychopath. She was a naive young girl caught up in an horrendous crime. She shouldn't have waited an hour though, let alone a month, to come forward.
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I am surprised how much Mugford knew and was told by Bamber within hours of the murders. I thought she was more detached and found out details from Bamber over a few days. Not secret whispers from Bamber as soon as the police took her to Goldhanger.
She is damn lucky Bamber didn't get caught by some other means before she came forward; she would have been another Maxine Carr! I don't know how she went to see the dead bodies in the morgue when she knew Bamber was responsible!
One thing is without doubt though to me; Bamber did it. No frigging way did Julie make all that up and incriminate herself so badly. One mitigating factor in her favour is she couldn't possibly have known Bamber was such a psychopath. She was a naive young girl caught up in an horrendous crime. She shouldn't have waited an hour though, let alone a month, to come forward.
We have been through all Julie's writings and one other thing we will tell you at this stage is that she wrote on 25 August 1985..
Remember that Maida Vale is just beside Notting Hill and they must have been out enjoying the fun.
Notting Hill carnival - Jeremy stroking Brett's hair!!!
Doesn't that just tell you all??
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I very much like what I am seeing on this forum as for the first time the public can read the true story of Jeremy Bamber. I believe Mr Tesko has done us all a great big favour by publishing official documents as they have only served to damahe Jeremy"d reputation even further. Thank you Mr Tesko, I knew you would put your big feet right in it eventually. Ann and David are so so happy at your efforts.
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I forgot to say in my last post that although Julie was a stupid girl at the ouyset she did come through in the end. Julie's life has been torn apart too by Jeremy's actions, she didn't ask him to murder his family. Julie even warned people what he was really right but even she did not realise until it was too late what kind of a psychopath he actually had become.
It is interesting that Jeremy actually admitted to Julie on the days before his arrest that he did have mental problems yet the shrinks have been unable to confirm it.
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I forgot to say in my last post that although Julie was a stupid girl at the ouyset she did come through in the end. Julie's life has been torn apart too by Jeremy's actions, she didn't ask him to murder his family. Julie even warned people what he was really right but even she did not realise until it was too late what kind of a psychopath he actually had become.
It is interesting that Jeremy actually admitted to Julie on the days before his arrest that he did have mental problems yet the shrinks have been unable to confirm it.
Well blown me down with an Anshutz .22 semi automatic rifle. Jeremy Bamber admitted to having mental problems!! I bet he denies that one. @)(++(*
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I forgot to say in my last post that although Julie was a stupid girl at the ouyset she did come through in the end. Julie's life has been torn apart too by Jeremy's actions, she didn't ask him to murder his family. Julie even warned people what he was really right but even she did not realise until it was too late what kind of a psychopath he actually had become.
It is interesting that Jeremy actually admitted to Julie on the days before his arrest that he did have mental problems yet the shrinks have been unable to confirm it.
You're right Princess, Julie did come forward and admitted everything including her own crimes and Bambers other crimes. She could have told the police she didn't know anything until later but instead she told the full story, warts and all.
I am not going to condemn her too much; without her Bamber would probably have gotten away with it.
If you do know Ann and David, please tell them that most people fighting the Tesko bullshit are more appalled at the pro Bamber's appalling accusations against the family and Police than attacking Bamber. Bamber's rotting in prison and will never get out; it's his s..mbag supporters that make me post.
All the best to Ann and David and to the rest of the family.
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Julie stated that she welcomed Lizzie putting pressure on her to go to the police. She even writes in her diary that she was frightened and confused as to what to do. She was scared in case nobody believed her and afraid of being accused of being a woman scorned. Should she go to the police? She writes that it came down to betraying the one that she loved or become increasingly neurotic.
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The major point is she told Lizzie about the murders before she finished with Bamber. So the pack of lies by a woman scorned scenario doesn't work!
Also she told police Bamber hired a hitman and named him because Bamber told her that. Again not the actions of a liar.
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The major point is she told Lizzie about the murders before she finished with Bamber. So the pack of lies by a woman scorned scenario doesn't work!
Also she told police Bamber hired a hitman and named him because Bamber told her that. Again not the actions of a liar.
I don't know if everyone has read through Julies diary fully but at the final meeting in London on 4 September 1985, Julie phoned Jeremy and told him that she was going over to see him at Sheila's Maida Vale flat. Julie arrived on time but Jeremy accompanied by Brett Collins arrived late.
They initially went to a cafe across the road before returning to the flat. Whilst Julie was there Virginia telephoned, there was an almighty confrontation between Julie and Jeremy during which Julie smashed a mirror and slapped Jeremy. He twisted her arm up her back and made to hit her. She told him "Go on + I'll go straight to Essex Police!"
Julie met up with DS Stan Jones three days later in Colchester Police Station and spent the next four days assisting the police with their enquiries.
Tells you it all really!
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Stan Jones wasn't surprised when he heard from Julie though. When he was told she had come to the station he said 'I think she is finally going to cough' (admit Bamber did it).
Stan definitley was the man; he thought Bamber was guilty from the start and actually got himself in trouble contradicting his boss Taff Jones who thought it was an open and shut murder/suicide.
Good police work Stan!
When Julie did tell the whole story everyone who heard it believed her. All the police in numerous interviews, the family and most crucially the jury. No Porsche for Mr. Bamber!
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Maybe he has a corgi model of one in his cell to remind him what it was all for. I feel sorry for him in a funnt sort of way. If he had only behaved and done what Neville and June asked him to do he might have his own family of Bambers by now.
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He would be a rich man now and maybe even a granddad.
I wonder how many other lifes he stopped that night too; Sheila was still young and she loved kids and the twins would probably have had a few by now.
There's a Porsche garage down the road from me; I might pop in and get a brochure and send it to him in Full Sutton! ;D Just to cheer him up of course!
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But, of course, it wouldn't be a Bamber family, would it? It would be another nest of cuckoos. Rubbing more salt into Boutflour wounds. Why should Jeremy inherit the land that Neville had worked hard to keep? Jeremy had no feel for the land. He must have broken Neville's heart.
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But, of course, it wouldn't be a Bamber family, would it? It would be another nest of cuckoos. Rubbing more salt into Boutflour wounds. Why should Jeremy inherit the land that Neville had worked hard to keep? Jeremy had no feel for the land. He must have broken Neville's heart.
You have to understand Lady Antebellum that Neville didn't own the land, he was a leaseholder which means that he had a long term right to work the farm as long as he paid rent to the actual owner and kept the farm and buildings, house etc in good order.
I have noticed that many people have made this mistake, I also made it before I had investigated the issue. Jeremy would have inherited the right to work the farm and to reside there, not the farm itself.
Hope this explains things.
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But, of course, it wouldn't be a Bamber family, would it? It would be another nest of cuckoos. Rubbing more salt into Boutflour wounds. Why should Jeremy inherit the land that Neville had worked hard to keep? Jeremy had no feel for the land. He must have broken Neville's heart.
Well said Lady A ..... nest of cuckoos! It's a shame Bamber was ever born .... his real parents didn't want him then and don't want to know him now.
Bamber was born unwanted and will die an abandoned s..mbag in prison! That's what you get for shooting kiddies to death.
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But, of course, it wouldn't be a Bamber family, would it? It would be another nest of cuckoos. Rubbing more salt into Boutflour wounds. Why should Jeremy inherit the land that Neville had worked hard to keep? Jeremy had no feel for the land. He must have broken Neville's heart.
Well said Lady A ..... nest of cuckoos! It's a shame Bamber was ever born .... his real parents didn't want him then and don't want to know him now.
Bamber was born unwanted and will die an abandoned s..mbag in prison! That's what you get for shooting kiddies to death.
Thank you. So what exactly did Jeremy expect to inherit? Obviously the goodies from the farmhouse, antiques, clocks, etc., but did he want the kudos of being Lord of the manor? Was that his plan? Or did he want to grow more drugs?
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From what I've read on the Tesko forum, there are 2 facts that will maintain Bamber's guilt. Neville didn't make a phone call, and Sheila showed no physical signs of gunshots and battling with Neville.QED.
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But, of course, it wouldn't be a Bamber family, would it? It would be another nest of cuckoos. Rubbing more salt into Boutflour wounds. Why should Jeremy inherit the land that Neville had worked hard to keep? Jeremy had no feel for the land. He must have broken Neville's heart.
Well said Lady A ..... nest of cuckoos! It's a shame Bamber was ever born .... his real parents didn't want him then and don't want to know him now.
Bamber was born unwanted and will die an abandoned s..mbag in prison! That's what you get for shooting kiddies to death.
Thank you. So what exactly did Jeremy expect to inherit? Obviously the goodies from the farmhouse, antiques, clocks, etc., but did he want the kudos of being Lord of the manor? Was that his plan? Or did he want to grow more drugs?
He would have inherited Neville and June's personal investments and that of Granny Speakman which included shares in Osea Road caravan site. Also some farm land which Neville had purchased and all the farm equipment, cars, house in Goldhanger etc.. Did you all know that granny Speakman was too ill even to give a statement to police. Bamber effectively killed her to, the poor woman was distraught.
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From what I've read on the Tesko forum, there are 2 facts that will maintain Bamber's guilt. Neville didn't make a phone call, and Sheila showed no physical signs of gunshots and battling with Neville.QED.
That and Sheila's DNA proven blood in the silencer in the gun cupboard. Those are the facts that condemn Bamber .... you can add to that a mountain of circumstantial evidence like Julie's testimony, the phone call timings, Bamber's behaviour, etc.
I don't understand how anyone can read the facts and not be convinced of his guilt. Thankfully the jury and all the appeal court judges were convinced. The CCRC will be as well very soon!
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But, of course, it wouldn't be a Bamber family, would it? It would be another nest of cuckoos. Rubbing more salt into Boutflour wounds. Why should Jeremy inherit the land that Neville had worked hard to keep? Jeremy had no feel for the land. He must have broken Neville's heart.
Well said Lady A ..... nest of cuckoos! It's a shame Bamber was ever born .... his real parents didn't want him then and don't want to know him now.
Bamber was born unwanted and will die an abandoned s..mbag in prison! That's what you get for shooting kiddies to death.
Thank you. So what exactly did Jeremy expect to inherit? Obviously the goodies from the farmhouse, antiques, clocks, etc., but did he want the kudos of being Lord of the manor? Was that his plan? Or did he want to grow more drugs?
There was a big inheritance. Neville/June's share in the caravan park worth a lot of money. Antiques and money. Sheilas flat in London, Jeremy's house in Goldhanger, many other business and property interests of Neville. The grandmother Speakman's will.
Bamber wanted to be a playboy not a farmer!
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It just makes you wonder how things could have turned out had he not turned to murder to get the things he obviously craved.
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I find julies diary entries intriguing and although we have only seen a few pages so far it is obvious that she was on the verge of a breakdown and all because of bamber. How pathetic and sick are the comments we all read on the bamber forum saying that julie was callous and was milking it basically. Julie was out of her mind when she went to Liz she didn't want to believe that the love of her life could do such a thing but as time went by she began to realize that he was a psychopath and incable of feeling anything. Poor julie had fallen for a murderer and she could be next at any time.
Bamber kept telling her that it was done and dusted and not to worry. Obviously he wasn't capable of worrying and this is most evident by his actions following the murders. Taff Jones saw through him early on but was overruled by his superior but Taff got there in the end. Good old fashioned policing by a top copper.
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These diary entries certainly make a complete mockery of the "woman scorned" theory that is such a major part of Tesko's defence of Bamber. Very, very enlightening.
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Julies statements and diaries are dynamite. Her statements may not have been before the jury but her diary might have been. Julie couldn't possibly have kept a lie going for any length of time in her distraught state of mind.
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If only she hadn't have been so needy, had taken JB seriously when he was discussing different methods of destroying his adopted family, and approached Ralph with her fears. Ralph already had his suspicions.
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If only she hadn't have been so needy, had taken JB seriously when he was discussing different methods of destroying his adopted family, and approached Ralph with her fears. Ralph already had his suspicions.
If someone you loved talked about killing their family every time you met Shona would you take them seriously?
I believe Julie really thought that he was just unhappy with his lot. Most of us have said that we will kill someone
at some time in our lives. The big difference is that what we say is just a figure of speech and accepted as such.
Jeremy however took this one step further and it does worry me sometimes that alarm bells weren't ringing in
Julie's head.
Could her love for Jeremy have been so strong that she was prepared to ignore his rantings for fear of losing him?
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If only she hadn't have been so needy, had taken JB seriously when he was discussing different methods of destroying his adopted family, and approached Ralph with her fears. Ralph already had his suspicions.
If someone you loved talked about killing their family every time you met Shona would you take them seriously?
I believe Julie really thought that he was just unhappy with his lot. Most of us have said that we will kill someone
at some time in our lives. The big difference is that what we say is just a figure of speech and accepted as such.
Jeremy however took this one step further and it does worry me sometimes that alarm bells weren't ringing in
Julie's head.
Could her love for Jeremy have been so strong that she was prepared to ignore his rantings for fear of losing him?
I'd like to think that I'd run a mile once he started talking about burning the house down. From what I've read over the months, JB was unpopular with men, but was (is) a bit of a desperado-magnet where women are concerned. JM was young, needy, seemingly desperate to hang on to him - perhaps her actions were understandable, if unforgiveable. What I find impossible to justify is JB's reprehensible behaviour after the funerals.
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Julie probably didn't take him seriously to begin with so that is why she kept questioning him and saying things like the twins haven't done him any harm or that Sheila wasn't mad. She probably was trying to get him to accept things as they were and try to put such silly ideas out of his head. I think when all was said and done Julie just thought he was unhappy but would grow out of it. She must have got one hell of a shock when he told her that Matthew had done it. Obviously he thought she would take it better than to tell her she was sleeping with a mass murderer.
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If only she hadn't have been so needy, had taken JB seriously when he was discussing different methods of destroying his adopted family, and approached Ralph with her fears. Ralph already had his suspicions.
If someone you loved talked about killing their family every time you met Shona would you take them seriously?
I believe Julie really thought that he was just unhappy with his lot. Most of us have said that we will kill someone
at some time in our lives. The big difference is that what we say is just a figure of speech and accepted as such.
Jeremy however took this one step further and it does worry me sometimes that alarm bells weren't ringing in
Julie's head.
Could her love for Jeremy have been so strong that she was prepared to ignore his rantings for fear of losing him?
I'd like to think that I'd run a mile once he started talking about burning the house down. From what I've read over the months, JB was unpopular with men, but was (is) a bit of a desperado-magnet where women are concerned. JM was young, needy, seemingly desperate to hang on to him - perhaps her actions were understandable, if unforgiveable. What I find impossible to justify is JB's reprehensible behaviour after the funerals.[/quote]
He was to cock sure of himself shona, he obviously was psychopath material to have done what he did and then to live with himself wit such knowledge afterwards. Julie was useful to him and then brett was useful and then tesko was and is useful....can you see a pattern??
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I have been reading through the start of Julies diary and the entry for the 7 August is somewhat confusing. Julies entry goes something like this.
3.00am. The phone rang, Julie jumped out of bed assuming it was Jeremy. She says he tells her, "Everything is going well". Julie writes....'Sheila has gone mad and his father didn't know what to do.' Julie told him not to worry and he replied that he had not been to bed all night. Julie told him to go to bed and try to sleep because he would think clearer. (the bit about thinking clearer was crossed out)
He hung up and she returned to bed to sleep. Information sunk in..panic!
I dont understand what she means by the phrase 'Sheila has gone mad and his father didn't know what to do' ??
Am I missing something here as Sheila was supposed to have been quiet and lightly sedated.
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It just makes you wonder how things could have turned out had he not turned to murder to get the things he obviously craved.
Do you mean - if he wasn't a psychopath?
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Whatever happened to Brett or is he still on the scene. I wonder whose hair Jerry is stroking in Full Sutton nick?
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You might all think this is crazy but could it be possible that Jeremy was called over to the farm and found Sheila and his dad in conflict?
Things developed and Jeremy saw his chance to frame Sheila.
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You might all think this is crazy but could it be possible that Jeremy was called over to the farm and found Sheila and his dad in conflict?
Things developed and Jeremy saw his chance to frame Sheila.
I don't think so Mark. Jeremy had set it all up by moving the bedroom phone and leaving the rifle out ready for his slaughtering. He had June's pushbike at his house all ready to go.
No way did Neville ever call Jeremy in my opinion.
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You are reading it like Jeremy intended you to. This was what Jeremy told Julie on the phone, Julie didn't witness this event for herself.
Don't you remember what Jeremy told her later that day when she said she was worried about what she had told the police. Jeremy told her that he had said certain things on the phone so that she would have no problem when the police started asking questions.
This was all a scam you have to remember.
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Sorry......got carried away for a minute there chaps. I dont like loose ends or mysteries and have to get to the bottom of them. Yes I can see that what Julie actually wrote was what he wanted her to know....not what actually happened. He was quite the fox wasnt he??
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Sorry......got carried away for a minute there chaps. I dont like loose ends or mysteries and have to get to the bottom of them. Yes I can see that what Julie actually wrote was what he wanted her to know....not what actually happened. He was quite the fox wasnt he??
Yep he was as sly and crafty as a fox. Luckily fox hunting wasn't banned in those days.
Anyone sending our Jeremy anything nice for his birthday?
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Sorry......got carried away for a minute there chaps. I dont like loose ends or mysteries and have to get to the bottom of them. Yes I can see that what Julie actually wrote was what he wanted her to know....not what actually happened. He was quite the fox wasnt he??
Yep he was as sly and crafty as a fox. Luckily fox hunting wasn't banned in those days.
Anyone sending our Jeremy anything nice for his birthday?
We are sending him a portrait of Julie Mugford for his noticeboard so as to remind him why he is there.
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Sorry......got carried away for a minute there chaps. I dont like loose ends or mysteries and have to get to the bottom of them. Yes I can see that what Julie actually wrote was what he wanted her to know....not what actually happened. He was quite the fox wasnt he??
Yep he was as sly and crafty as a fox. Luckily fox hunting wasn't banned in those days.
Anyone sending our Jeremy anything nice for his birthday?
We are sending him a portrait of Julie Mugford for his noticeboard so as to remind him why he is there.
Good move. Send him a portrait of poor Nicholas and Daniel too to remind him why he is never leaving there.
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It just makes you wonder how things could have turned out had he not turned to murder to get the things he obviously craved.
Do you mean - if he wasn't a psychopath?
Yes exactly heartofgold.
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You might all think this is crazy but could it be possible that Jeremy was called over to the farm and found Sheila and his dad in conflict?
Things developed and Jeremy saw his chance to frame Sheila.
"Tonight's the night.........."
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You might all think this is crazy but could it be possible that Jeremy was called over to the farm and found Sheila and his dad in conflict?
Things developed and Jeremy saw his chance to frame Sheila.
"Tonight's the night.........."
Chilling words aren't they Shona The Brave!
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Bamber really has becoming the forgotten man. There isn't one joke about him on Sickipedia!
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Great drama on the diaries do you have any other photos of the funeral admin. Any that we may not have seen before? Maybe you could do a photo thread when you get a chance?
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Rochy have read Julie's diary? Do you really think they are fake?
I thought the comment about going to WHF for the first time since the murders and Jeremy was quote "playing up" was Bamber down to a Tee. What was he doing I wonder; it's the scene of the murder of his entire immediate family and he is playing up!
Chilling!
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Yes, thanks for posting them.
"Burnham boy" - she uses a capital B for the place name (Burnham on Crouch is a local town) and small b for boy, so I assume it's just a boy from Burnham whose name she doesn't know?
Would also be a good name for a racehorse but probably wouldn't have fit in the car.
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Rochy have read Julie's diary? Do you really think they are fake?
I thought the comment about going to WHF for the first time since the murders and Jeremy was quote "playing up" was Bamber down to a Tee. What was he doing I wonder; it's the scene of the murder of his entire immediate family and he is playing up!
Chilling!
Im not overly impressed with the snippets I have seen so far. I suggest your 'chilling' vibes stem from your own need for there to be a Bamber Bogeyman. But that's just my opinion.
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Julie commented in her diary on the day of the funerals that Jeremy was spaced out. I take it she meant that he was high on drugs that particulars day. I wonder if he took anything stronger than cannabis?
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Julie commented in her diary on the day of the funerals that Jeremy was spaced out. I take it she meant that he was high on drugs that particulars day. I wonder if he took anything stronger than cannabis?
I thought it was interesting that Julie couldn't go through the house with Jeremy when he was searching for cash. I wonder were her nerves beginning to go at that point?
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Rochy have read Julie's diary? Do you really think they are fake?
I thought the comment about going to WHF for the first time since the murders and Jeremy was quote "playing up" was Bamber down to a Tee. What was he doing I wonder; it's the scene of the murder of his entire immediate family and he is playing up!
Chilling!
Im not overly impressed with the snippets I have seen so far. I suggest your 'chilling' vibes stem from your own need for there to be a Bamber Bogeyman. But that's just my opinion.
Well as usual Rochy you're wrong. I don't need Bamber to be anything and I wsih he was innocent ... then this appalling case would be a tragic result of mental illness. Unfortunately it's one of the most callous and disgusting crimes in history and can rightly be described as chilling!
Now stop pussyfooting around Rochy .... do you think the diary is fake or not?
(Here's a tip: you have to say it's fake because if it isn't Bamber is guilty!).
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If I may go back to the very first page of the diary entries, can anyone provide an explanation for these comments written in the diary by Julie Mugford the day after the murders?
Killing of rats > couldn't kill people?
Society > believe murder was ultimate sin but it wasn't so.
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The diary entry for Tuesday 6 August is intriguing. Julie is more or less saying that if it is tonight or never then basically if Jeremy can get over tonight then that will be an end of it. Did she really believe he was just kidding I find myself asking? Was she such a bad judge of character?
The other thing which is concerning is how she was able to make the entry at the top listing what she believed to be the number of times each of the victims had been shot when this information wasn't available at the time.
Did Jeremy fill her in on these details? 8-)(--)
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If I may go back to the very first page of the diary entries, can anyone provide an explanation for these comments written in the diary by Julie Mugford the day after the murders?
Killing of rats > couldn't kill people?
Society > believe murder was ultimate sin but it wasn't so.
In my opinion she is in denial here when she considers that killing people is a much bigger undertaking than killing rats. The second statement is somewhat bizarre though??
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The words Society > believe murder was ultimate sin but it wasn't so. which Julie wrote in her diary are indeed puzzling. Could it be that she was trying to make excuses for what she thought Sheila had done? Is she in fact saying that Sheila could not be blamed for killing everyone?
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The words Society > believe murder was ultimate sin but it wasn't so. which Julie wrote in her diary are indeed puzzling. Could it be that she was trying to make excuses for what she thought Sheila had done? Is she in fact saying that Sheila could not be blamed for killing everyone?
We thought the reference was to Jeremy but you might be right. It all depends on when it was written and only Julie knows that John. By the way, have you had a response from Mrs Smerchanski yet?
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The diary entry for Tuesday 6 August is intriguing. Julie is more or less saying that if it is tonight or never then basically if Jeremy can get over tonight then that will be an end of it. Did she really believe he was just kidding I find myself asking? Was she such a bad judge of character?
The other thing which is concerning is how she was able to make the entry at the top listing what she believed to be the number of times each of the victims had been shot when this information wasn't available at the time.
Did Jeremy fill her in on these details? 8-)(--)
It is strange that those details were filled in at the top of the page. Had they been at the bottom it could have been explained away unless she wrote the entry the following day which I suppose is quite reasonable given the circumstances. I am beginning to sound like Tesko now?? 8(8-))
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John, I think the explanation is much simpler.
Apparently, Colin Caffell asked to see Julie Mugford after he learned the truth. Together with Liz Rimmington she went to talk to him in October,'85, and it was Liz who told him, amongst other damning things that...,
"Jeremy never believed murder was a crime". (In Search of the Rainbow's End, p.103)
In the diary entry, "Society > believe murder was ultimate sin but it wasn't so".., I think that Julie was just reiterating what Jeremy Bamber or Liz Rimmington had said to her.
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John, I think the explanation is much simpler.
Apparently, Colin Caffell asked to see Julie Mugford after he learned the truth. Together with Liz Rimmington she went to talk to him in October,'85, and it was Liz who told him, amongst other damning things that...,
"Jeremy never believed murder was a crime". (In Search of the Rainbow's End, p.103)
In the diary entry, "Society > believe murder was ultimate sin but it wasn't so".., I think that Julie was just reiterating what Jeremy Bamber or Liz Rimmington had said to her.
Excellent Myster. That most certainly explains it. I bet that meeting between Julie and Colin was a difficult one. If that meeting took place after Jeremy was arrested and after Julie gave the comprehensive 32 page statement to DS Jones then she would have been in a position to spill the beans on Jeremy at that stage to Colin. I wonder did Julie also have a meeting with Robert, Ann or David after Jeremy was arrested or was she too ashamed to face them?
I must add that question to my e-mail to her.
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The diary entry for Tuesday 6 August is intriguing. Julie is more or less saying that if it is tonight or never then basically if Jeremy can get over tonight then that will be an end of it. Did she really believe he was just kidding I find myself asking? Was she such a bad judge of character?
The other thing which is concerning is how she was able to make the entry at the top listing what she believed to be the number of times each of the victims had been shot when this information wasn't available at the time.
Did Jeremy fill her in on these details? 8-)(--)
It is strange that those details were filled in at the top of the page. Had they been at the bottom it could have been explained away unless she wrote the entry the following day which I suppose is quite reasonable given the circumstances. I am beginning to sound like Tesko now?? 8(8-))
In my view that is very significant. It looks like a slip and makes me believe the diaries might be fake.
No one starts writing far down on a page, then, another day, writes above it. Makes no sense.
And why would she write in such formal manner:
"Night/morning of 5 murders at Tolleshunt D'Arcy.
- White House Farm
1) Mr Nevill Bamber 8 x 's
2) Mrs June Bamber 5 x 's
3) Mrs Sheila Caffell All shot twice (suicide?)
4) Nicholas Caffell 3 x 's
5) Daniel Caffell 3 x 's"
It sounds like something a police officer would write, "Mrs Sheila Caffell", "Daniel Caffell".... Julie knew them, she would have written "Sheila" and "Daniel" etc.
Did she write the diaries at all - this is too weird? Not quite buying this.
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The diary entry for Tuesday 6 August is intriguing. Julie is more or less saying that if it is tonight or never then basically if Jeremy can get over tonight then that will be an end of it. Did she really believe he was just kidding I find myself asking? Was she such a bad judge of character?
The other thing which is concerning is how she was able to make the entry at the top listing what she believed to be the number of times each of the victims had been shot when this information wasn't available at the time.
Did Jeremy fill her in on these details? 8-)(--)
It is strange that those details were filled in at the top of the page. Had they been at the bottom it could have been explained away unless she wrote the entry the following day which I suppose is quite reasonable given the circumstances. I am beginning to sound like Tesko now?? 8(8-))
In my view that is very significant. It looks like a slip and makes me believe the diaries might be fake.
No one starts writing far down on a page, then, another day, writes above it. Makes no sense.
And why would she write in such formal manner:
"Night/morning of 5 murders at Tolleshunt D'Arcy.
- White House Farm
1) Mr Nevill Bamber 8 x 's
2) Mrs June Bamber 5 x 's
3) Mrs Sheila Caffell All shot twice (suicide?)
4) Nicholas Caffell 3 x 's
5) Daniel Caffell 3 x 's"
It sounds like something a police officer would write, "Mrs Sheila Caffell", "Daniel Caffell".... Julie knew them, she would have written "Sheila" and "Daniel" etc.
Did she write the diaries at all - this is too weird? Not quite buying this.
We take on board what you say abs. The suggestion that a police officer wrote the diaries and then passed them off as Julie's is a bit far fetched don't you think? Why would any officer put his career in jeopardy for those muppets?
Come on abs, lets think logically and put the tesko nonsense to bed.
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But why would Sheila write this, and write it in such a formal manner? It rings false to me. I donīt know who wrote it, I am just saying that it sounds like something from a police report, not a young girlīs diary.
And another thing:
Went to Colchester shopping. Lizzie + I Brett + Jeremy.
Bought suit Ģ value not legible tie Ģ30 offered to buy me a new designer dress - said NO!
Went to Miss Selfridge's then to Sloppy Joe's then home.
Meal - ask Lizzie where?
Discussion white face black eye make up.
Jeremy and Liz sat up talking after Brett and I went to bed - suicidal - had to tell someone but who?
They came up after approx 1 hr. Was he convincing someone else. Was I mad?
What it really says is: "Offered to buy new designer dress - No"
A little different.
P.S. I do think I am being logical.
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But why would Sheila write this, and write it in such a formal manner? It rings false to me. I donīt know who wrote it, I am just saying that it sounds like something from a police report, not a young girlīs diary.
And another thing:
Went to Colchester shopping. Lizzie + I Brett + Jeremy.
Bought suit Ģ value not legible tie Ģ30 offered to buy me a new designer dress - said NO!
Went to Miss Selfridge's then to Sloppy Joe's then home.
Meal - ask Lizzie where?
Discussion white face black eye make up.
Jeremy and Liz sat up talking after Brett and I went to bed - suicidal - had to tell someone but who?
They came up after approx 1 hr. Was he convincing someone else. Was I mad?
What it really says is: "Offered to buy new designer dress - No"
A little different.
P.S. I do think I am being logical.
How is it different abs, it means the same thing. Jeremy was purchasing some new clothes and offered to buy Julie a new designer dress obviously to keep her sweet. She said NO? Are we missing something here?
We do accept and point out that we have deciphered some of the diary entries while other are written verbatim. This is because some of the posts are from the old forum. Please always check with the actual diary entry which is posted beneath.
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"Offered to buy new designer dress - No"
This (what is actually written) could also be interpreted as someone did not offer to buy a new designer dress. Either way it could be interpreted, also that she said no, true, but also my suggestion.
You are beginning to sound peed off at me - I am just writing what I see, just my opinions.
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"Offered to buy new designer dress - No"
This (what is actually written) could also be interpreted as someone did not offer to buy a new designer dress. Either way it could be interpreted, also that she said no, true, but also my suggestion.
You are beginning to sound peed off at me - I am just writing what I see, just my opinions.
No...not at all. Just thought we had made a mistake. You are probably right in what you say, a females intuition??
Julie would have written "didn't offer to buy me a new designer dress" if that had been the case. What do you think? It's just that having read all her notes this is the way she normally writes....she wore her heart on her sleeve.
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Now that you are on admin, can we have some more of Julie's diaries please?
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Now that you are on admin, can we have some more of Julie's diaries please?
On it at the moment, a couple of other statements to post up first.
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It's been a while since I read her diaries and I haven't re-read them yet, but don't think they were 'kept' in the way that some think. I think after the murders she was trying to remember everything that had happened and been said, and she used the diary to write it all down. The formality of the names and numbers of bullets section was probably written down as someone (perhaps a policeman) explained it to her, and it was probably one of the first things she wrote in the diary. After that she went back and wrote in the details as best she could remember them.
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But why would Sheila write this, and write it in such a formal manner? It rings false to me. I donīt know who wrote it, I am just saying that it sounds like something from a police report, not a young girlīs diary.
And another thing:
Went to Colchester shopping. Lizzie + I Brett + Jeremy.
Bought suit Ģ value not legible tie Ģ30 offered to buy me a new designer dress - said NO!
Went to Miss Selfridge's then to Sloppy Joe's then home.
Meal - ask Lizzie where?
Discussion white face black eye make up.
Jeremy and Liz sat up talking after Brett and I went to bed - suicidal - had to tell someone but who?
They came up after approx 1 hr. Was he convincing someone else. Was I mad?
What it really says is: "Offered to buy new designer dress - No"
A little different.
P.S. I do think I am being logical.
I think it says "Offered to buy me designer dress - No"
The 'm' is just misformed.
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Hi Abs and Weety. I think JM's saying that JB offered to buy her a designer dress and she refused. The m in "me" compares to the m in "They came up." (And Abs, I LOVED the film - especially the dancing!!)
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Hi Abs and Weety. I think JM's saying that JB offered to buy her a designer dress and she refused. The m in "me" compares to the m in "They came up." (And Abs, I LOVED the film - especially the dancing!!)
Well spotted Shona.
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There is no dubiety actually as it is clarified in Julie's statement relating to 15 August 1985. She states that Jeremy and Brett bought a suit for Ģ198 and Jeremy offered to buy her a designer dress in the same shop but she refused. She says they went down the road to Miss Selfridge's and got one for Ģ32.99 which Jeremy paid for.
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But why would Sheila write this, and write it in such a formal manner? It rings false to me. I donīt know who wrote it, I am just saying that it sounds like something from a police report, not a young girlīs diary.
And another thing:
Went to Colchester shopping. Lizzie + I Brett + Jeremy.
Bought suit Ģ value not legible tie Ģ30 offered to buy me a new designer dress - said NO!
Went to Miss Selfridge's then to Sloppy Joe's then home.
Meal - ask Lizzie where?
Discussion white face black eye make up.
Jeremy and Liz sat up talking after Brett and I went to bed - suicidal - had to tell someone but who?
They came up after approx 1 hr. Was he convincing someone else. Was I mad?
What it really says is: "Offered to buy new designer dress - No"
A little different.
P.S. I do think I am being logical.
I think it says "Offered to buy me designer dress - No"
The 'm' is just misformed.
That could be - itīs hard to tell. I still think though, that the sentence can be interpreted two very different ways.
BTW, Admin, thanks for uploading, and in general all the work! It takes time!!
Thanks Shona - youīre a fierce dancer!
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But why would Sheila write this, and write it in such a formal manner? It rings false to me. I donīt know who wrote it, I am just saying that it sounds like something from a police report, not a young girlīs diary.
And another thing:
Went to Colchester shopping. Lizzie + I Brett + Jeremy.
Bought suit Ģ value not legible tie Ģ30 offered to buy me a new designer dress - said NO!
Went to Miss Selfridge's then to Sloppy Joe's then home.
Meal - ask Lizzie where?
Discussion white face black eye make up.
Jeremy and Liz sat up talking after Brett and I went to bed - suicidal - had to tell someone but who?
They came up after approx 1 hr. Was he convincing someone else. Was I mad?
What it really says is: "Offered to buy new designer dress - No"
A little different.
P.S. I do think I am being logical.
I think it says "Offered to buy me designer dress - No"
The 'm' is just misformed.
That could be - itīs hard to tell. I still think though, that the sentence can be interpreted two very different ways.
BTW, Admin, thanks for uploading, and in general all the work! It takes time!!
Thanks Shona - youīre a fierce dancer!
You are very welcome! 8((()*/
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If those diaries are genuine, they implicate Julie Mugford in murder. Plain and simple. I have a problem with that. She would never have said all those things. Where are these diaries from?
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It looks like the Jeremy Bamber forum is missing important statements made by principal players in the case. They are having to resort to pinching our copies of Julie's statements. So funny. @)(++(* @)(++(*
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It looks like the Jeremy Bamber forum is missing important statements made by principal players in the case. They are having to resort to pinching our copies of Julie's statements. So funny. @)(++(* @)(++(*
Some statements were not posted by Mike Tesko for obvious reasons but were later posted by Hartley.
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I find this page fascinating. The sexually transmitted diseases - Yeuk. What a bunch.
Also the bit about "If only dogs could talk?" Presumably refers to Crispy being the only survivor. He was highly disturbed of course afterwards and bit JB. (See Ann Eaton's statements). Also JB apparently shot Crispy later. Maybe he wanted to silence him or he had found out that June had left the lot to Crispy.
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Those diaries put Mugford right in it as far as I can see. She obviously knew what he had done yet went to view those bodies. When she says she was frightened and worried about her statement, Bamber reassured her and told her that was why he had told her certain things over the phone.
That stinks of a conspiracy to me. You have to realise that Bamber had to refute saying such a thing at the trial. If he tried to implicate Mugford he would have put himself right in it.
At the end of the day it was either him or both of them....he chose the former since he thought he would win on appeal. I bet he's sorry now??
This is the best comment Ive read on JM so far and exactly my view too. JB was screwed, he couldnt have incriminate JM as that would involve a confession. She was smart, he was stupid by not keeping his mouth shut. But regardless I believe she was 100% involved and could have prevented this but chose not to. And to then ID the bodies was as sick as you can get.
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They sure are dynamite, unfortunately for Mr Testosterone they do absolutely zilch for his case other than nail it down even further.
I was just pondering the whole Mugford thing this morning and what she said in her statements and now in the diaries. Thanx btw admin for a wonderful job!!
Where is the... "I wonder who could have done such a thing?" comment from any of them. Where is there any doubt expressed as to who could be involved. Where is the denials???
Fact is folks, there isn't any. There is no expression of wonder, fear or anything else relating to any third party in any of those documents except that one reference to MacDonald which we know was the seed planted in Mugford's head during their first meeting at Goldhanger.
There was no worried for their safety, no might need a police guard at their house in Goldhanger or any police protection. It was all put down to Sheila and her having committed suicide after shooting the others.
Fact is there never was any third party to the act but I will let you into a little secret. Mugford wasn't the only one to have PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of the impending slaughter.
Guess who??
BRETT???