Author Topic: Amaral and the dogs  (Read 845876 times)

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Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2160 on: August 12, 2015, 08:34:09 PM »
Is there evidence for that statement please?
Gunit

As you well know, I have presented this evidence at least 3 times in the past couple of months


Stop wasting time.

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2161 on: August 12, 2015, 08:37:38 PM »
The answers say what they say.

They don't say what you insist.

I insisted on nothing. Are you going to answer my third point or not?

Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2162 on: August 12, 2015, 08:39:37 PM »
Unless we have been misinformed, Dr Gerry McCann is alive and kicking ... the cellular material Eddie alerted to in the Renault was his; that provides evidence that Eddie alerts to living scent.

Thank you Brietta.

Practical proof that what i have repeated from the official report (at least three times) is true.

Eddie alerts to living scents



Gunit why do you keep asking the same question?  Is it three times that I have now answered it, or four?
Time wasting.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2163 on: August 12, 2015, 08:44:20 PM »
Thank you Brietta.

Practical proof that what i have repeated from the official report (at least three times) is true.

Eddie alerts to living scents



Gunit why do you keep asking the same question?  Is it three times that I have now answered it, or four?
Time wasting.

What other scents could have been present by secondary transfer, which were not 'living scents', which of course is a contradiction in terms ?

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2164 on: August 12, 2015, 08:47:07 PM »
What other scents could have been present by secondary transfer, which were not 'living scents', which of course is a contradiction in terms ?

Bacon, pork sausages, or ham joints?

Offline pegasus

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2165 on: August 12, 2015, 08:50:34 PM »
Question about http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html
Their shortest-PMI scent pad they say they put on a subject who had passed away 70 minutes before.
They leave the pad in place for 20 minutes
So does that mean that pad was removed at 90 minutes?

Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2166 on: August 12, 2015, 08:52:43 PM »
What other scents could have been present by secondary transfer, which were not 'living scents', which of course is a contradiction in terms ?

Living scents and pork products

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2167 on: August 12, 2015, 08:53:38 PM »
Living scents and pork products

You of course can prove this ??

and that these scents were present ??

Offline sadie

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2168 on: August 12, 2015, 08:55:24 PM »
You of course can prove this ??

and that these scents were present ??
I can prove it every bit as well as you can prove that the scent of death was there



As you must by now well know.

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2169 on: August 12, 2015, 08:58:40 PM »
Question about http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html
Their shortest-PMI scent pad they say they put on a subject who had passed away 70 minutes before.
They leave the pad in place for 20 minutes
So does that mean that pad was removed at 90 minutes?
Yes, at 90 minutes post mortem in that example

Offline Anna

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2170 on: August 12, 2015, 09:00:30 PM »
Question about http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html
Their shortest-PMI scent pad they say they put on a subject who had passed away 70 minutes before.
They leave the pad in place for 20 minutes
So does that mean that pad was removed at 90 minutes?

That is how I read it...... 70mins post mortem and then pad for 20mins to contaminate it.

TRIALS BEGUN: January 1997
 NUMBER OF DOGS USED: Five different dogs
 POST-MORTEM INTERVAL RANGE: From 70 minutes to 3 days
 NUMBER OF TRIALS COMPLETED: As of July 1997, total of 52 trials completed
 PRELIMINARY RESULTS: The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes. However, the post-mortem interval for which we received a consistently correct response from all dogs involved is 2.5 - 3 hours.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2171 on: August 12, 2015, 09:07:27 PM »
Dear [name deleted],

With regard to your request in relation to:

"1. Can you confirm that the cadaver dog "Eddie", formerly a police dog under
dog handler and dog instructor Martin Grime, now retired from your force, was
sent to America to be trained on human cadavers and be upgraded to "enhanced"
victim recovery dog?

2. Can you confirm that South Yorkshire Police uses, or has used, an American
device for trapping scents, a "Scent Transfer Unit" or "STU100" in the
training of its cadaver dogs?"

RESPONSE

1. South Yorkshire Police holds information which would tend to confirm this part of your request. This information is contained within the anual Personal Development Review of retired PC GRIME for the year 2005/2006 and states at various points,

"(PC GRIMES) has deployed police dog 'Eddie' to train on human remains in the US. This training has been valuable as it is not possible to utilise human remains in the UK. A full report from the F.B.I. to document his training and operational deployments whilst in America remains pending"

"Deployments have been on a national scale and a recent visit to the F.B.I. in America has created some income generation potential in terms of training."

"Complete sponsored visit to FBI to educate on C.S.I. Dog capabilities - Achieved"

2. From enquiries I have made it would appear that South Yorkshire Police have not deployed or used a device known as a 'Scent Transfer Unit' or 'STU100' within Force either operationally or for evaluation. However the Force does hold information that would indicate that Mr GRIME, whilst serving with this Force IN 2006, did utilise such a device whilst engageD in another Force area. A section of a statement apparently made but not signed by Mr GRIME reads: -

" I developed the training of the E.V.R.D. to include the screening of scent pads taken from motor vehicles by a ST 100 Scent Tranference Unit.

The unit is designed in a two main-part design. The main body is a battery operated electrical device that draws air in at to the front and exhausts through the rear. Ther is no 're-circulation' of air within the unit. The second main part is a 'grilled' hood that fits to the main body. A sterile gauze pad is fitted into the hood. When operated the ST 100 draws air through the hood and the sterile gauze pad and exhausts through ports to the rear. 'Scent' is trapped in the gauze, which may then be stored for use within scent discrimination exercises.

The ST 100 unit is cleaned following use in such a manner that no residual scent is apparent. This is checked by control measures where the dog is allowed to search a given area where the S100 is secreted. Any response by the dog would suggest contamination. Tests have shown that the decontamination procedures are effective in this case with the dog NOT alerting to the device when completed.

Use of the ST100 is recommended when subject vehicles, property, clothing, premises are to be forensically protected from contamination by the dog, and for covert deployment. At all other times best practice would be for the dog to be given direct access.

Operational use of the STU 100 is in a developmental stage"

If you are unhappy with the way your request for information has been handled, you can request a review by following the advice contained in the separate notice attached to this correspondence:

If you remain dissatisfied with the handling of your request or complaint, you have a right to appeal to the Information Commissioner at:
The Information Commissioner's Office,
Wycliffe House,
Water Lane,
Wilmslow,
Cheshire, SK9 5AF.
Telephone: 08456 306060 or 01625 545745
Website: www.ico.gov.uk
There is no charge for making an appeal.

Yours sincerely

___________________________

The follow-up quetion:

__________________________-

Freedom of Information Request - Reference No:20110231

REQUEST

[Following a response to request 20110186]

Can I ask, did that FBI report described as 'pending' turn up?

RESPONSE

SYP did not receive a report, therefore there is `no information held'.


The third FOI answer (which I believe Carana has) asked, straightforwardly, what training or preparation Eddie had received to equip him for his duties as a police dog.

The answer was that Eddie's training was in conformance with standard ACPO guidelines.

Then a link was given to the ACPO dog-training manual.

As you would expect, the ACPO dog-training manual says nothing about sending dogs to America.  It explains in detail how dog-training courses are set up in the UK using pig carcasses and pig scents.




---------------------------------------------------------

From Amazon............

' On 4th May this year, DCI wrote a post on the same site. This is from that post

'' Grime claims that Eddie has been trained on such a farm in the States. An FOI answer to a question I have submitted cited parts of a Personal Development review for the Year 2005-6 when it was stated that Eddie (then aged 5 or 6, and close to retirement) had been to the States for that training. The cited justification was, not that it would improve Eddie's performance, but that it would "generate some income potential".

Until his last day of service, the daily cost of hiring Eddie was just £10. And no documention confirming this apparent trip was ever received by SYP.''

The last sentence is untrue. The FOI response merely stated that the report was not in the file. There was no statement that it was never received, nor was there any request to locate it.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6271.270

Of course, any idiot who thinks an officer can just swan off to the other side of the Atlantic without having the request signed off by a senior officer, needs locking up.

So contrary to the claims of Ferryman and DCI, they are in possession of confirmation that Mr Grime DID take the dog for training in the states '

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2172 on: August 12, 2015, 09:09:30 PM »
I can prove it every bit as well as you can prove that the scent of death was there



As you must by now well know.

Well prove it. 8(>((

Offline mercury

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2173 on: August 12, 2015, 09:19:13 PM »
Living scents and pork products

What are the probabilities that the only apartment (from where a missing child went missing) in amongst seven, contained  any one or all of the myriad of "living scents" (bypassing the sausages for now) to which the dogs alerted?

Pretty unlucky don't you think?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Amaral and the dogs
« Reply #2174 on: August 12, 2015, 09:24:12 PM »
Living scents and pork products

There were no alert indications from the remaining properties. I did however
see the dog search in the kitchen waste bins. These contained meat
foodstuffs including pork and did not result in any false alert response.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.