Author Topic: So what actual searching was there?  (Read 410178 times)

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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2040 on: June 15, 2016, 02:32:50 PM »
That's between 560 and 700 man-days of searching by the GNR etc.

Antinomy:
If we believe some of the nonsense posted:
Those pesky Portuguese failed to secure the borders, the most remote of which is 5 hours away.
Those same pesky Portuguese failed to search under their noses (ish) for more than 7 days.
 &%+((£
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2041 on: June 15, 2016, 02:35:00 PM »
That's between 560 and 700 man-days of searching by the GNR etc.
Now compare it with the number of man hours used to look for April Jones.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2042 on: June 15, 2016, 02:38:58 PM »
For comparison purposes here are the facts of the police search for April Jones

INVESTIGATION FACTFILE

 More than 650 areas around Machynlleth covering 60 sq km were searched
An average of 16 search teams - a total of 150 officers a day - were involved, as well as 10 police dogs, 100 mountain rescuers, two RNLI vessels, kayakers and helicopter support
Dyfed-Powys Police received 4,744 calls and messages from the public
Of these, 2,159 needed follow ups as lines of inquiry by officers
Detailed forensic examination of 27 scenes
29 child witnesses spoken to
Police visited 700 homes during house-to-house inquiries
2,000 hours of CCTV evidence viewed
Dyfed-Powys received help from 45 UK police forces
Police took 1,018 written statements and seized 2,918 exhibits
The force's Twitter following rose from 2,400 to 12,500 in a week; the website's traffic rose fivefold to 100,000 unique visitors a week
The search officially ran from 1 October 2012 to 19 April 2013
Official estimates have put the bill for searching for the missing schoolgirl at £2.4m
Source: Dyfed-Powys Police

Offline Brietta

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2043 on: June 15, 2016, 02:42:49 PM »
That's between 560 and 700 man-days of searching by the GNR etc.

 ... which represents seven days in the life of a missing child.


There seems to have been lack of information sharing between the PSP ~ GNR ~ PJ. 

The main searchers ... the PSP who had eight hundred personnel on the ground doing the searching ...  but were not given a key suspect's efit picture which had been generated four days earlier by the PJ.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1551163/Four-very-useful-leads-boost-Madeleine-hunt.html

Which ties in with Bridget O'Donnell's observation ...

"Then he pointed to the photocopied picture of Madeleine on the table. 'Is this your daughter?' he asked. 'Er, no,' we said. 'That's the girl you are meant to be searching for.'

"My heart sank for the McCanns."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1572560/Madeleine-McCann-witness-breaks-her-silence.html 

At that early stage in the inquiry ... the searchers neither knew what the missing child looked like nor allegedly had they had sight of an efit of a suspect:  they certainly seem to coordinate and conduct searches for missing children in an extraordinary manner back in 2007.

One can only hope they have upped the ante in the nine years since then.


"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2044 on: June 15, 2016, 03:35:52 PM »
If the facts in the above report from the BBC's website about the search for April Jones are correct then that represents just short of 30,000 man days on the search for April (if my maths is correct) compared with 560-700 man days for Madeleine. 

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2045 on: June 15, 2016, 03:48:27 PM »
Now compare it with the number of man hours used to look for April Jones.

Why not compare the manhours spent on looking for April Jones with those expended looking of Christine Darby?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline G-Unit

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2046 on: June 15, 2016, 03:55:12 PM »
I find it quite amazing that people think they are in some way qualified to judge a Police investigation carried out in another country. Their arrogance is staggering and their motives suspect in my opinion. All Police forces can be criticised, but they all do their best, particularly when children are the victims. Those who attack the Portuguese Police react with outrage if a pair from Leicester are criticised for the documented, admitted, lack of care of their children though. Double standards and very transparently so.

The legal summary, which these same people like to quote as 'clearing' the McCanns said;

Therefore, this inquiry which demonstrates the pertinent commitment of the Polícia Judiciária. the installation, in the first 24 hours of an extensive operational scheme, including the participation of several police and civil protection forces, in a total of over 130 elements; the reinforcement, in the next 24 hours of said operational scheme, with the mobilisation of over 300 members of police forces and public entities; the installation of control posts on roads and on the Southern terrestrial border with Spain; the use of sniffer dog teams; the use of exceptional search and rescue teams (aerial, terrestrial and maritime), alerts and diffusion all over the country and abroad.

In summary, it is notorious that the PJ spared no efforts in the sense of making exceptional technical, human and financial means available to find the child and to discover the truth of facts, having been completely accompanied in this effort by the Leicestershire Constabulary, the police force that is located in the city of Leicester, where most of the people in the holiday group come from.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2047 on: June 15, 2016, 04:16:38 PM »
I similarly find it amazing that people think they are in some way qualified to judge the behaviours and state of mind of the parents of a missing child. 

But that's by the by.

Anyhow.  I've drawn a valid (IMO) comparison between two searches for two missing girls - the figures speak for themselves.  If anyone can give me a very good reason why one search ended after seven days, and one after 6 and a half months I'd be glad to hear it.

Offline Brietta

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2048 on: June 15, 2016, 04:33:46 PM »
I find it quite amazing that people think they are in some way qualified to judge a Police investigation carried out in another country. Their arrogance is staggering and their motives suspect in my opinion. All Police forces can be criticised, but they all do their best, particularly when children are the victims. Those who attack the Portuguese Police react with outrage if a pair from Leicester are criticised for the documented, admitted, lack of care of their children though. Double standards and very transparently so.

The legal summary, which these same people like to quote as 'clearing' the McCanns said;

Therefore, this inquiry which demonstrates the pertinent commitment of the Polícia Judiciária. the installation, in the first 24 hours of an extensive operational scheme, including the participation of several police and civil protection forces, in a total of over 130 elements; the reinforcement, in the next 24 hours of said operational scheme, with the mobilisation of over 300 members of police forces and public entities; the installation of control posts on roads and on the Southern terrestrial border with Spain; the use of sniffer dog teams; the use of exceptional search and rescue teams (aerial, terrestrial and maritime), alerts and diffusion all over the country and abroad.

In summary, it is notorious that the PJ spared no efforts in the sense of making exceptional technical, human and financial means available to find the child and to discover the truth of facts, having been completely accompanied in this effort by the Leicestershire Constabulary, the police force that is located in the city of Leicester, where most of the people in the holiday group come from.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

In post #1980 of this thread you asked ...
"Why was it necessary to hire Control Risks Group as early as May 2007?"

You seem to be unhappy with the answer you were given.

The fact is that it was known that only seven days after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann the police found it necessary to scale back on the search for her.
That was sometime in May.

With the forces of law and order being withdrawn leaving a vacuum in the search for the missing child the employment of private investigators was the only way open to her desperate parents to keep the search for her alive.
That was also in May.
 
One requires no law enforcement qualifications whatsoever to form an opinion on that.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2049 on: June 15, 2016, 05:02:41 PM »
What would have happened to Shannon Matthews if police had given up searching for her after seven days?

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2050 on: June 15, 2016, 05:08:47 PM »
What would have happened to Shannon Matthews if police had given up searching for her after seven days?

Her uncle would have handed her over to the cops & split the reward money with her mum.

That.
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2051 on: June 15, 2016, 05:26:14 PM »
The story so far, always given that posters have been diligent and accurate in their abstraction of data from timesheets or the source they used was impeccable.

The British Police expended 30,000 mandays in the search for April Jones
The Portuguese Police expended 700 mandays in the search for Madeleine McCann.
Observation: The British police expended time in a ratio of 43:1 +/- compared with the Portuguese.
Conclusion(s):  ? ?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline slartibartfast

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2052 on: June 15, 2016, 05:27:05 PM »
For comparison purposes here are the facts of the police search for April Jones

INVESTIGATION FACTFILE

 More than 650 areas around Machynlleth covering 60 sq km were searched
An average of 16 search teams - a total of 150 officers a day - were involved, as well as 10 police dogs, 100 mountain rescuers, two RNLI vessels, kayakers and helicopter support
Dyfed-Powys Police received 4,744 calls and messages from the public
Of these, 2,159 needed follow ups as lines of inquiry by officers
Detailed forensic examination of 27 scenes
29 child witnesses spoken to
Police visited 700 homes during house-to-house inquiries
2,000 hours of CCTV evidence viewed
Dyfed-Powys received help from 45 UK police forces
Police took 1,018 written statements and seized 2,918 exhibits
The force's Twitter following rose from 2,400 to 12,500 in a week; the website's traffic rose fivefold to 100,000 unique visitors a week
The search officially ran from 1 October 2012 to 19 April 2013
Official estimates have put the bill for searching for the missing schoolgirl at £2.4m
Source: Dyfed-Powys Police

... And they still didn't find her. So difficult to suggest that more time and effort automatically means a missing person will be found.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Alfie

  • Guest
Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2053 on: June 15, 2016, 05:32:03 PM »
... And they still didn't find her. So difficult to suggest that more time and effort automatically means a missing person will be found.
Who has suggested that?  But I tell you what - you're more likely to find someone or something the longer and harder you search for it.  Do you not agree?

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: So what actual searching was there?
« Reply #2054 on: June 15, 2016, 05:34:22 PM »
In post #1980 of this thread you asked ...
"Why was it necessary to hire Control Risks Group as early as May 2007?"

You seem to be unhappy with the answer you were given.

The fact is that it was known that only seven days after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann the police found it necessary to scale back on the search for her.
That was sometime in May.

With the forces of law and order being withdrawn leaving a vacuum in the search for the missing child the employment of private investigators was the only way open to her desperate parents to keep the search for her alive.
That was also in May.
 
One requires no law enforcement qualifications whatsoever to form an opinion on that.

When did "scaled back" become "withdrawn" ?
Did the case not remain open until July 2008 ?
So on what basis then are you suggesting it was a "shut up shop" at an earlier date ?
A cite from some official document might be handy ( not one from the Sun or Star).
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey