Author Topic: Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.  (Read 529094 times)

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Offline Benice

robert murat she wanted to kill him


You forgot to say what led Kate to have such thoughts at that time:-

Quote from Kates book

''The two officer talked openly about Robert Murat, who remained an arguido, and drip- fed us snippets of 'evidence' linking him to Madeleine's disappearance.  Not enough, apparently, to arrest and charge him.   In some ways I wish now they hadn't done this.  It served only to colour my judgement of Murat.  They told us for example about a newspaper clipping they'd seized from his house, an article entitled 'Lock up Your Daughters', which claimed that Casanova had been a paedaphile.  It made us shudder.   Back then we feared everything, and perhaps understandably, leaped to the worst conclusions without pausing to consider innocent explanations.
unquote

Kate goes on to say that once she read the PJ files in detail she found nothing to implicate Murat and that the police never had any credible case against him.
.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Brietta

If the decision is in accordance with the Portuguese judicial system, then it is a good decision.  If the decision is not in accordance with the Portuguese judicial system, then it is a bad decision.

Anyone with a decent knowledge of the Portuguese judicial system plus access to the 16 page judgement is in a position to determine whether it is or is not in accordance with the law.  The rest of us can't.

One may like or dislike the judgement.  But to go from a position of relative ignorance of both the system and the judgement to criticising the system is folly.

To criticise the entire country of Portugal on the basis of one judgement is ... well, do I really have to spell that out?

Has the full judgement been published anywhere yet?


Do you think the McCanns have any prospect of a fair hearing in a Portuguese court system which apparently cannot bring itself to even pay lip service to Article 6 (2) of the ECHR?

Goncalo Amaral's was judged to have violated the McCann's right to the presumption of innocence ... that has been overturned. 

Looking at the wider implications, I think that unilateral precedent affects many more than the McCanns.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
This journalist Stephen  -   He appears to have been first brought to the attention of Portugese investigators by Lori Campbell, a Sunday Mirror journalist, for no other reason than he appeared ‘suspicious’ and his behaviour reminded her of Ian Huntley.
- See more at: http://madeleinemccann.org/blog/2014/04/20/robert-murat/#sthash.Lgptuk0B.dpuf

Oh I know full well by Lori Campbell. So when did she see Huntley then ?

So would you also like to tell me what involvement she had with the mccanns as well ?

Offline Brietta


You forgot to say what led Kate to have such thoughts at that time:-

Quote from Kates book

''The two officer talked openly about Robert Murat, who remained an arguido, and drip- fed us snippets of 'evidence' linking him to Madeleine's disappearance.  Not enough, apparently, to arrest and charge him.   In some ways I wish now they hadn't done this.  It served only to colour my judgement of Murat.  They told us for example about a newspaper clipping they'd seized from his house, an article entitled 'Lock up Your Daughters', which claimed that Casanova had been a paedaphile.  It made us shudder.   Back then we feared everything, and perhaps understandably, leaped to the worst conclusions without pausing to consider innocent explanations.
unquote

Kate goes on to say that once she read the PJ files in detail she found nothing to implicate Murat and that the police never had any credible case against him.
.

More evidence of the "professionalism" of the Portuguese police as well as the eagerness to cherry pick anything in the attempt to excoriate particularly Kate McCann.  F****** W****** being another example.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest

You forgot to say what led Kate to have such thoughts at that time:-

Quote from Kates book

''The two officer talked openly about Robert Murat, who remained an arguido, and drip- fed us snippets of 'evidence' linking him to Madeleine's disappearance.  Not enough, apparently, to arrest and charge him.   In some ways I wish now they hadn't done this.  It served only to colour my judgement of Murat.  They told us for example about a newspaper clipping they'd seized from his house, an article entitled 'Lock up Your Daughters', which claimed that Casanova had been a paedaphile.  It made us shudder.   Back then we feared everything, and perhaps understandably, leaped to the worst conclusions without pausing to consider innocent explanations.
unquote

Kate goes on to say that once she read the PJ files in detail she found nothing to implicate Murat and that the police never had any credible case against him.
.

You do realize benice, that not everyone believes that everything kate mccann 'wrote' in the book is true.


After all, it was written after the event.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 10:52:39 AM by Slartibartfast »

Offline Benice

wasnt the diary part of the investigation and in the files?

I don't think so mercury.  IIRC a PT Judge ruled that it should not have been taken by the PJ and should be  returned to Kate and any copies destroyed.    It would seem elements of the PJ ignored that direction from a Judge  - and once again with no repercussions.

From memory so am happy to be corrected if necessary.




The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

stephen25000

  • Guest
More evidence of the "professionalism" of the Portuguese police as well as the eagerness to cherry pick anything in the attempt to excoriate particularly Kate McCann.  F****** W****** being another example.

Well that phrase really did personify kate mccanns eloquence, and her inability to accept responsibility for her own actions.

Also, IMO of course it reflects narcissism , in her personality.

Offline Benice

I think that could prove to be a very interesting exercise and depends very much on how much he values his financial privacy.

If claiming financial loss there will of course be very close scrutiny of all financial sources and resources held by Mr Amaral, perhaps even close relatives may have their financial affairs investigated.

It will become public how much disposable income he was able to amass over the period.  For example what he earned from television appearances ... how much his friends received in monetary gifts appealed for on his behalf over six or seven years, those accounts will be scrutinised ... etc. etc.

So could turn into a bit of a financial minefield for him ... but entirely for him to think about before deciding what punitive action to take ...

If he is going to claim loss of income due to the actions of others -  then how does that affect those people who have translated and distributed his book over the internet giving free access to it to millions of people? 

How can anyone differentiate between those who didn't buy the book because it was withdrawn from sale - from those who didn't buy the book because they could read it for free on the internet?


 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Alice Purjorick

On whose statements did the PJ suspect Murat ?

As to the second, THAT IS WHERE THE CASE STARTED, so every relevance.

Some lady journalist on the Sun and Clarence Mitchell likening RM's behaviour to that of Ian Huntley as I recall.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Alice Purjorick


Do you think the McCanns have any prospect of a fair hearing in a Portuguese court system which apparently cannot bring itself to even pay lip service to Article 6 (2) of the ECHR?

Goncalo Amaral's was judged to have violated the McCann's right to the presumption of innocence ... that has been overturned. 

Looking at the wider implications, I think that unilateral precedent affects many more than the McCanns.

You have said this before and I posed a question then which you did not answer so lets try again.
Do you have evidence to suggest that this has not been a fair trial to date?

"Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights is a provision of the European Convention which protects the right to a fair trial. In criminal law cases and cases to determine civil rights it protects the right to a public hearing before an independent and impartial tribunal within reasonable time, the presumption of innocence, and other minimum rights for those charged in a criminal case (adequate time and facilities to prepare their defence, access to legal representation, right to examine witnesses against them or have them examined, right to the free assistance of an interpreter)".

As we are perpetually reminded by our resident barrack room solicitors this is a civil case not a criminal case.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline faithlilly

An update from the OFM website ( not yet on their Facebook page )

Updates

19 April, 2016 - Statement from Gerry and Kate Regarding Libel Case

We are disappointed with today’s ruling from the Portuguese Appellate Court. As we have said in the past, this action has never been about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that has been done to the search for Madeleine.

We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.

Madeleine is still missing and we will do everything we can to get her home.

Thank you for your continued support.

 

Gerry and Kate




Was not about the money !!! Have they no shame ?

'
We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.'  Does this make any sense ?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 10:06:29 AM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline G-Unit

i think the latest decision is a disgrace and reflects badly on portugal and the portuguese justice system...it will be interesting to see what happens next......

The original ruling rested solely on whether Amaral was entitled to the same freedom of speech as any other Portuguese citizen. The judge said he was not, because his freedom of speech was restricted due to his former position as a police officer, and his present position as a retired police officer.

The Appeal Court disagreed with her opinion and upheld his right to freedom of speech.

I see the decision as a triumph for freedom of speech and a defeat for those who seek to restrict it.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Alice Purjorick

An update from the OFM website ( not yet on their Facebook page )

Updates

19 April, 2016 - Statement from Gerry and Kate Regarding Libel Case

We are disappointed with today’s ruling from the Portuguese Appellate Court. As we have said in the past, this action has never been about money. It has always been focused on the effects of the libels on our other children and the damage that has been done to the search for Madeleine.

We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.

Madeleine is still missing and we will do everything we can to get her home.

Thank you for your continued support.

 

Gerry and Kate




Was not about the money !!! Have they no shame ?

'
We will continue to defend ourselves against this libel and the search for our daughter. We will be appealing to the Portuguese Supreme Court.'  Does this make any sense ?

Remind us what Judge Emilia said about that!
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline G-Unit

It doesn't stray from the fact that Amaral started the hostility towards the McCann's,  that he was writing his book whilst still a Police Officer,  that details were leaked which shouldn't have been under Portuguese strict confidentiality law and that he lied in his book about the DNA and the fact the McCann's drugged their daughter.   We'll see.

All the bolded bits are either your opinion, not facts, or his opinion which the Appeal Court said he was allowed to express. They were not interested in when he wrote the book, just when it became available which was after the official files were released.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Mr Gray

The original ruling rested solely on whether Amaral was entitled to the same freedom of speech as any other Portuguese citizen. The judge said he was not, because his freedom of speech was restricted due to his former position as a police officer, and his present position as a retired police officer.

The Appeal Court disagreed with her opinion and upheld his right to freedom of speech.

I see the decision as a triumph for freedom of speech and a defeat for those who seek to restrict it.

so if I call someone on here liar...without evidence to support it...you will back me 100%.
no you won't...because you only believe in freedom of speech when it suits you...more freedom of hypocrisy