Author Topic: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?  (Read 414131 times)

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Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #525 on: December 28, 2013, 07:31:33 PM »
Going back to a few pages and the discussion about the curtains......were the curtains found open? Did the curtains fly open from a closed position to an open one or did kate go and open them?


Gerry Mccann statement 4 may

At 10pm, his wife Kate went to check on the children. She went into the apartment through the door using her key and saw right away that the children’s bedroom door was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains drawn open

gerry Mccann statement 10 May


The deponent ran into the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also
 open to one side, the shutters almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE's bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cots. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scenario that she found when she entered the apartment.

kate Mccann statement 4 May

At around 10pm, the witness came to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed, but unlocked, as already said, and immediately noticed that the door to her children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.


Kate Mccan on c4 documentary

K: I did my check about 10.00 'clock and went in through the sliding patio doors and I just stood, actually and I thought, oh, all quiet, and to be honest, I might have been tempted to turn round then, but I just noticed that the door, the bedroom door where the three children were sleeping, was open much further than we’d left it. I went to close it to about here and then as I got to here, it suddenly slammed and then as I opened it, it was then that I just thought, I’ll just look at the children and I could see Sean and Amelie in the cot and then I was looking at Madeleine’s bed which was here and it was dark and I was looking and I was thinking, is that Madeleine or is that the bedding. and I couldn’t quite make her out. It sounds really stupid now, but at the time, I was thinking I didn’t want to put the light on cos I didn’t wanna wake them and literally, as I went back in, the curtains of the bedroom which were drawn,… were closed, … whoosh … It was like a gust of wind, kinda, just blew them open and cuddle cat was still there and her pink blanket was still there and then I knew straight away that she had, er, been taken, you know.

kate Mccann on Oprah 2009


Kate: Yeah, so I thought well I'll just close it over again, and as I went to close it over it slammed shut and I thought and it was like sort of you know a draught had caused it to shut so I turned behind me and I thought are the patio doors open and they were closed and I thought well that's strange so then I opened the door thinking I'll open it ajar a bit again and that was when I kind of looked into the room and when I just looked and it was quite dark and I was just looking and looking at Madeleine's bed and I was thinking is that her that I was looking for why isn't Madeleine there? And then in the end I walked over and thought oh, she's not in bed and then I thought maybe she's wandered through to our bed and that's why the door's open so I went through to our bedroom and she wasn't there and then I kind of see then I'm starting to panic a bit and I ran back into their room and literally as I went back into their room the curtains that were drawn over just "foooosh" flew open and that's when I saw that the shutter was right up and the window was pushed right oper. And that was when I just knew that erm someone had taken her. So I, I mean I ran to the window and I didn't know what I thought was going to see but I ran to the window and then I quickly hmm quickly looked through the wardrobes I had I suppose this temporary thought she was cowering in a wardrobe or something anyway she wasn't there and I just ran out and soon as...

Tapas group joint statement....Kate Mccann runs over and opens the curtains


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P4/04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_890.jpg
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 07:33:21 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #526 on: December 28, 2013, 07:32:01 PM »
But how could a couple who were so cold hearted and unmoved by the death of their daughter that they were capable of disposing of her body like a sack of old rubbish, not be able to just as coldly sit down and work out what they were going to say about the shutters/window - which after all was going to be the proof that an abductor had broken in and was in fact the most important part of their plan.

Surely such people would not be panicking at all at the planning stage - why would they be? and they certainly would not have overlooked the fact during that discussion that at least some evidence needed to be present to prove a break in.   So why didn't these cunning criminal masterminds provide some in readiness for the obvious inspection of the window by the PJ which they knew would take place?

Obviously I don't believe for one moment that any of the above happened, which is why I believe Kate told the truth when she said the shutters were up and the window was wide open when she found Madeleine missing and this led her to immediately believe that an abductor had broken in and taken her daughter.   And that is when the nightmare started.

100%.  The window / shutter was the lynchpin of the abduction scenario at that point. Impossible for it to have been overlooked.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #527 on: December 28, 2013, 07:34:19 PM »
Of course. What can happen (it happened to another mechanism of mine, more recent and sliding, not a tipping one, but the same principle of automatic lock when pushed completely) is the mechanism stops working properly : you just can't lock. I guess that in that case the cleaning lady would have warned the OC.

Or the burglar/abductor got lucky!!

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #528 on: December 28, 2013, 07:37:06 PM »
So why would anyone slide it to a close position but not flick the close/lock latch then?
Psychologically the closed metal shutter, which only has an operating strap inside, and no visible means of opening it from outside, makes the entire opening seem secure, to foreigners from a country where external metal shutters are not common.
Neither adult specifically remembered pressing or checking the lock button on the window (see statements), which IMO pretty much proves the psychological "its safe" effect of the closed metal shutter. All IMO.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 07:39:15 PM by pegasus »

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #529 on: December 28, 2013, 07:39:35 PM »
Psychologically the closed metal shutter, which only has an operating strap inside, and no visible means of opening it from outside, makes the entire opening seem secure, to foreigners from a country where external metal shutters are not common.
Neither adult specifically remembered pressing the lock button (see statements), which IMO pretty much proves the psychological "its safe" effect of the closed metal shutter. All IMO.

Oh dont be silly, they wouldnt worry about an unlocked window when they left the back door open and couldnt even remember if the front door was locked or unlocked.....


 @)(++(*

eta id like to see where in their statements they said they didnt remember anything re the window latch!!!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 07:43:21 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Benice

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #530 on: December 28, 2013, 07:50:10 PM »
?
Did you read "they were in such a terrible emotional state that they couldn't possibly stage anything" ?
About your "capable of disposing of her body like a sack of old rubbish"
see in his rog what Mr O'Brien heard on that night.

They were understandably in a terrible emotional state AFTER they found their daughter missing. 

But the allegation is that they pre-planned it all and their friends colluded with them to tell all kinds of lies to the police to cover up the death of a child.    People who are capable of doing that do not get emotional - which is another reason why I don't believe a word of it.   They were 9 ordinary people who happened to go on holiday together and found themselves in a nightmare  - not 9 raving psychopaths.

I have no idea what you are referring to re Mr. O'Brien.





The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimăo. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #531 on: December 28, 2013, 07:53:49 PM »
The statements are easy enough to find, both adults say the window was closed but they are not certain if it was locked.
BTW re the window not being autolocking, has anyone bothered to even watch Moita Flores video demonstration of the actual window?

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #532 on: December 28, 2013, 07:55:39 PM »
They were understandably in a terrible emotional state AFTER they found their daughter missing. 

But the allegation is that they pre-planned it all and their friends colluded with them to tell all kinds of lies to the police to cover up the death of a child.    People who are capable of doing that do not get emotional - which is another reason why I don't believe a word of it.   They were 9 ordinary people who happened to go on holiday together and found themselves in a nightmare  - not 9 raving psychopaths.

I have no idea what you are referring to re Mr. O'Brien.

Making sweeping allegations yourself now are you?


Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #533 on: December 28, 2013, 08:00:48 PM »
Moita Flores ? Are you sure ?
I thought that is he but maybe I am wrong if so I apologise, have you watched the video?
Surely for this discussion of the window it would be a few seconds well spent to watch the demonstration of the actual window mechanism in Mr Amarals film?

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #534 on: December 28, 2013, 08:03:19 PM »
The statements are easy enough to find, both adults say the window was closed but they are not certain if it was locked.
BTW re the window not being autolocking, has anyone bothered to even watch Moita Flores video demonstration of the actual window?

Dumb

How would they know if they never touched opened the window shutters or curtains all week?

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #535 on: December 28, 2013, 08:20:36 PM »
"closed but she doesn’t know if it was locked" 6/9/07
"closed though he is not totally sure if it was locked" 7/9/07

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #536 on: December 28, 2013, 08:24:39 PM »
"closed but she doesn’t know if it was locked" 6/9/07
"closed though he is not totally sure if it was locked" 7/9/07

makes no difference.....means nothing much in terms of the discussion.....

same as not knowing if they locked the front door or not when they left their three babies inside ..pretty poor wouldnt you say?

Offline pegasus

Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #537 on: December 28, 2013, 08:56:29 PM »
.sorry wrong thread

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #538 on: December 28, 2013, 08:57:44 PM »
Oh dont be silly, they wouldnt worry about an unlocked window when they left the back door open and couldnt even remember if the front door was locked or unlocked.....


 @)(++(*

eta id like to see where in their statements they said they didnt remember anything re the window latch!!!
Weren't they dining like in their back garden ?

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?
« Reply #539 on: December 28, 2013, 09:00:16 PM »
Weren't they dining like in their back garden ?

Yes thats why they left the apartment unlocked and all their treasures ie babies in there all alone...out of sight and hearing..mad people