Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[Redblossom]

"For a long while we would assume that the abductor had entered and exited through the window of the children’s bedroom, but it is equally possible that he used the patio doors or even had a key to the front door. Perhaps he’d either come in or gone out via the window, not both; perhaps he hadn’t been through it at all, but had opened it to prepare an emergency escape route if needed, or merely to throw investigators off the scent. He could have been in and out of the apartment more than once between our visits.
That would explain the movement of the door to the children’s bedroom. At 9.05pm, when Gerry had found it further ajar than it should have been, he had pulled it back to its original position. On his arrival half an hour later, Matt hadn’t gone into the room, he had simply listened at the door, which he hadn’t adjusted. And yet when I returned at 10pm it was open wider once again. How had that happened?"

Yes indeed how did that happen. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Is that a quote from KMs book? if so, is she suggesting the door was closed to, aka the to five degrees of almost closed when Matt when to check? At 9.30? but at 10 when ahe went it was back open again after GM had closed it?


Because according to his statements in May 07 and 08 it was half open/50 degrees open and on their documentary  made  two years before the book was published it showed Matt looking in through a half open door?..if it had not been open he wouldnt have seen the cots and the twins in them as he stated....just another piece of confusion woven in here.....maybe it was the wind after all.....

[pathfinder73]

Is that a quote from KMs book? if so, is she suggesting the door was closed to, aka the to five degrees of almost closed when Matt when to check? At 9.30? but at 10 when ahe went it was back open again after GM had closed it?


Because according to his statements in May 07 and 08 it was half open/50 degrees open and on their documentary  made  two years before the book was published it showed Matt looking in through a half open door?..if it had not been open he wouldnt have seen the cots and the twins in them as he stated....just another piece of confusion woven in here.....maybe it was the wind after all.....

Yes it's from Kate's book Madeleine. No she is suggesting that the door was open wider than half-open on her check. It was half-open when Matt checked - that's never been changed in statements. They say it moved further open on Gerry's check at 9.05 then he moved it back to ajar. Matt came at 9.30 and it was moved to half-open. When Kate came it moved wider again than half-open. 3 door position changes in an hour.

[pegasus]

No but its obvious...statements written in portuguese

Agreed, IMO it is translation error, and if there is an audio recording it will show that neither of these two individuals said they entered throught the north door for checks that night.

Anyway one of those two statements is null and void because IMO it is incorrect to allow someone to sit in on a formal police interview and not only that but also to allow contact communication (see book by KM).

[pathfinder73]

How can using a key to the door be a translation error to using the unlocked patio door? It's easy for anyone to say it's a translation error.

[pegasus]

How can using a key the door be a translation error to using the unlocked patio door? It's easy for anyone to say it's a translation error.

For example it could be that GM stated he used the key about 5.30pm, and maybe the context got mistranslated to using the key during the checks.
And looking at the other statement, is it cloned from the above?

[Carana]

How can using a key to the door be a translation error to using the unlocked patio door? It's easy for anyone to say it's a translation error.

There's a thread on this issue.

Without going into all of it again, I - personally - find it plausible that notes were made by the PJ officer and/or the "interpreter" that morning. In order to understand what had happened, it would make sense to me to ask and make notes as to the layout of the apartment. If this happened, it doesn't seem to be part of that interview (yet Gerry was the first to be questioned). If the officer hadn't asked, why not?

I really have no problem in imagining the chaos that first morning.

ETA: The point being is that notes of which door was which (back/ front) could have easily been mixed up at that stage.

[pegasus]

Those two 4th May statements are they not worded almost the same?
Is it possible the two witnesses go into interview room together, first witness gives statement for both, then other witness is simply asked "is that correct?" "yes" and then its typed up as two individual statements?
P.S. Sorry post withdrawn because statements were at different times (1115 and 1420).

[Benice]

There's a thread on this issue.

Without going into all of it again, I - personally - find it plausible that notes were made by the PJ officer and/or the "interpreter" that morning. In order to understand what had happened, it would make sense to me to ask and make notes as to the layout of the apartment. If this happened, it doesn't seem to be part of that interview (yet Gerry was the first to be questioned). If the officer hadn't asked, why not?

I really have no problem in imagining the chaos that first morning.

Totally agree Carana, also there was ongoing confusion during interviews about the doors - because some people referred to the patio door as the front door and the door overlooking the carpark as the back door -  while others described the patio door as the back door and the other door as the front door.   This confusion was mentioned by a UK police officer during JT's rogatory interview.     Add that to the fact that GM would have been exhausted as well as traumatised during that very first interview - and IMO the scope for misunderstandings was huge.     Personally I think an English transcript was given to him some days later - when he then noticed the error and put it right.   





 

[Mr Gray]

Totally agree Carana, also there was ongoing confusion during interviews about the doors - because some people referred to the patio door as the front door and the door overlooking the carpark as the back door -  while others described the patio door as the back door and the other door as the front door.   This confusion was mentioned by a UK police officer during JT's rogatory interview.     Add that to the fact that GM would have been exhausted as well as traumatised during that very first interview - and IMO the scope for misunderstandings was huge.     Personally I think an English transcript was given to him some days later - when he then noticed the error and put it right.

So no lying...just confusion...another myth bites the dust

[pathfinder73]

No myth has been busted. The sliding patio door doesn't have a key! Only one door has a key so how could he get confused.

"Gerald McCann himself goes as far as to say that when he came to see his daughter at about 9pm, that he does not enter through here [sliding doors]; even though he was in a hurry to reach the bathroom. Yet he chooses to walk the longest path [round gesture with extended arm], to open the door [main entrance] with the key. There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, on the kitchen's counter. Right away, the lies started." (Amaral)

[Mr Gray]

No myth has been busted. The sliding patio door doesn't have a key! Only one door has a key so how could he get confused.

"Gerald McCann himself goes as far as to say that when he came to see his daughter at about 9pm, that he does not enter through here [sliding doors]; even though he was in a hurry to reach the bathroom. Yet he chooses to walk the longest path [round gesture with extended arm], to open the door [main entrance] with the key. There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, on the kitchen's counter. Right away, the lies started." (Amaral)

so you are quoting amaral...a proven liar

[Mr Gray]

amaral never met the mccanns...al the information here is second and third hand

[Mr Gray]

Seems that whenever Gerry lies he's just mistaken. Very convenient.

Like I said earlier people tells lies because they have a need to hide the truth. The thing is people don't lie all the time so you cannot say because one lied over a specific incident they are always lying but like the boy who cried wolf it harms their credibility. It's important to find the lies then ask what truth are they trying to hide?

Jane and Jez both think Gerry was "mistaken"(lying) regarding the side of the road they were on. Gerry was adamant they were wrong. In this instance with 2 vs 1 it's highly probable that Gerry was in fact lying so the question should be why? What truth did Gerry have a need to hide?

or he wasnt lying...just mistaken...they are different

[Mr Gray]

Unless you are talking about Amaral. You see the point? He quickly becomes a liar.

no..it has been proved in court amaral lied...and wasnt there some fraud against his brother also proved in court

[Carana]

No myth has been busted. The sliding patio door doesn't have a key! Only one door has a key so how could he get confused.

"Gerald McCann himself goes as far as to say that when he came to see his daughter at about 9pm, that he does not enter through here [sliding doors]; even though he was in a hurry to reach the bathroom. Yet he chooses to walk the longest path [round gesture with extended arm], to open the door [main entrance] with the key. There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, on the kitchen's counter. Right away, the lies started." (Amaral)

Who is "he"?

Amaral wasn't there as far as I'm aware.

Any one of the three people (Gerry, the PJ officer or the "interpreter") could have got confused in that initial chaos.

- It doesn't make sense to me that Gerry would have insisted on going the long way around to then go on to say - in the same statement - that Matt had gone to check via the patio door which was unlocked.

- The other possibility, which I find more plausible, is that the PJ officer / or the interpreter were taking notes (patio door unlocked, main door needs key to open) and one of them got mixed up between which doors were taken to be the back and front ones.

I don't see it as any more complicated than that and the apparent contradiction was clarified during the subsequent interview.