Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[Benice]

The shutters were closed all week so she couldn't have touched the window until that night.

They closed the shutters and the curtains on the day they arrived -  so she could have touched the window then.

[stephen25000]

They closed the shutters and the curtains on the day they arrived -  so she could have touched the window then.

How do you know that ?

So why weren't gm's fingerprints found ?

[Benice]

How do you know that ?

So why weren't gm's fingerprints found ?

KM says so in her book. 

Quote

On our arrival we had lowered the blind-style shutters on the outside of the windows, which were controlled from the inside, and closed the curtains.  We left them that way all week.
End quote

Are you saying that it wasn't possible for KM to have touched the window while they were doing that? 

If Kate was the only one who had touched the window  -  then obviously you wouldn't expect to find GM's fingerprints there would you.

[Wonderfulspam]

KM says so in her book. 
Quote

On our arrival we had lowered the blind-style shutters on the outside of the windows, which were controlled from the inside, and closed the curtains.  We left them that way all week.
End quote

Are you saying that it wasn't possible for KM to have touched the window while they were doing that? 

If Kate was the only one who had touched the window  -  then obviously you wouldn't expect to find GM's fingerprints there would you.

Well, if it's in Kate's book then it must be true.

[stephen25000]

KM says so in her book. 

Quote

On our arrival we had lowered the blind-style shutters on the outside of the windows, which were controlled from the inside, and closed the curtains.  We left them that way all week.
End quote

Are you saying that it wasn't possible for KM to have touched the window while they were doing that? 

If Kate was the only one who had touched the window  -  then obviously you wouldn't expect to find GM's fingerprints there would you.

Merely because km says something in her book doesn't make it true.

You do realize that, don't you ?

[Benice]

Merely because km says something in her book doesn't make it true.

You do realize that, don't you ?

The McCanns reason for closing the shutters and curtains in that particular bedroom and leaving them like that are easy to understand - there is nothing sinister about it whatsoever.    In fact there is nothing extraodinary at all about her fingerprints being found anywhere in an apartment where she had stayed for the previous 6 days.   Therefore there would be no reason for her to lie.   


 

[Admin]

The McCanns reason for closing the shutters and curtains in that particular bedroom and leaving them like that are easy to understand - there is nothing sinister about it whatsoever.    In fact there is nothing extraodinary at all about her fingerprints being found anywhere in an apartment where she had stayed for the previous 6 days.   Therefore there would be no reason for her to lie.

We are only surprised they didn't find a lot more and especially nice fresh ones belonging to Gerry on the bedroom shutters.

[Mr Gray]

We are only surprised they didn't find a lot more and especially nice fresh ones belonging to Gerry on the bedroom shutters.

I don't think they looked particularly closely, as M W  Thomas said on the you tube clip that has been removed from the board

[Benice]

We are only surprised they didn't find a lot more and especially nice fresh ones belonging to Gerry on the bedroom shutters.

Is it surprising?   - when even Amaral admits there were 'shortcomings' in the recovery of forensics.  In fact  he particularly mentions the unprofessionalism of the person taking fingerprints at the shutters.

IIRC Diane Webster also tried the shutters - so why were her fingerprints not found?

[Mr Gray]

Is it surprising?   - when even Amaral admits there were 'shortcomings' in the recovery of forensics.  In fact  he particularly mentions the unprofessionalism of the person taking fingerprints at the shutters.

IIRC Diane Webster also tried the shutters - so why were her fingerprints not found?

if they missed the prints of Gerry and Diane Webster then it is perfectly possible there were more prints there...the abductor...which they also missed

[Brietta]

The answer to " Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?" is, of course he/she could. 

We have watched numerous videos demonstrating the mechanics of this type of shutter being opened and closed from inside and outside apartments.  It has been generally agreed the noise made would be ignored because it would be such a normal thing to hear. 

Similarly there are many demonstrations of people entering via this route and demonstrations of how a child could easily be either lifted out, or passed out to an accomplice. 

The question is why would an abductor use the window, apart for observation, when he/she had a perfectly good very secluded and private door to use?
 
Why risk drawing the attention of a passer by entering or leaving a property by a window, when no-one would have given a second glance to a person entering or leaving by the door, or who by the secluded nature of the doorway could have melted into the shadows till potential observers had passed?

IMO it was not a burglary gone wrong, but a well planned abduction attempt which for some reason was almost derailed.
IMO this is why we have accounts of Smithman and Tannerman out in the street, I don't think that was part of the plan, therefore I think the shutter being raised was part of that last minute upset to the plan.

[John]

Could we stay on topic please. TY

[Benice]

The answer to " Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?" is, of course he/she could. 

We have watched numerous videos demonstrating the mechanics of this type of shutter being opened and closed from inside and outside apartments.  It has been generally agreed the noise made would be ignored because it would be such a normal thing to hear. 

Similarly there are many demonstrations of people entering via this route and demonstrations of how a child could easily be either lifted out, or passed out to an accomplice. 

The question is why would an abductor use the window, apart for observation, when he/she had a perfectly good very secluded and private door to use?
 
Why risk drawing the attention of a passer by entering or leaving a property by a window, when no-one would have given a second glance to a person entering or leaving by the door, or who by the secluded nature of the doorway could have melted into the shadows till potential observers had passed?

IMO it was not a burglary gone wrong, but a well planned abduction attempt which for some reason was almost derailed.
IMO this is why we have accounts of Smithman and Tannerman out in the street, I don't think that was part of the plan, therefore I think the shutter being raised was part of that last minute upset to the plan.

IMO there are three credible reasons for opening the window and shutters.

1. To give a swift 'escape' route if they were disturbed - which did not involve going back into the rest of the apartment and possibly being confronted face to face with someone.

2. As the only way of checking to see whether the coast was clear before leaving via the recessed front door carrying a child - which in itself would attract attention from anyone who unknown to them may have come into the car park whilst the intruder was inside 5A.      Particular if they had been watching the movements of the group and knew that people would definitely be walking across that carpark several times during the evening.

3. To deflect attention away from the fact that they had a key.

[pathfinder73]

"The window to Madeleine’s bedroom remained closed, but she doesn’t know if it was locked, shutters and curtains drawn, and that was how it remained since the first day, night and day. She never opened it. If somebody saw the window shutters in Madeleine’s room open, it was not the deponent who opened them, and she never saw them open." (KM)

If Madeleine was lifted through the window then evidence would've been found IMO. Opening that window was suicidal.

[Wonderfulspam]

What would be your reasoning behind Tannerman/Smithman spending 45mins roaming around PDL with a child in their arms?

And him changing Maddies jammies in the process.