Could an intruder have opened the shutter and climbed in the window?

[stephen25000]

You are quite determined to paint the Drs McCann in the worst possible light with every post you make.  Quite unedifying.

Madeleine's father was of the opinion that it was impossible to raise the shutter from outside and was shocked to discover that it could be raised.
Stupid of him to interfere with what no-one knew was a crime scene at the time.

However since he neither replaced a broken pane of glass or jemmied a shutter ... your fault finding is becoming laboured.

Need you be reminded, there is no independent evidence the window was open or the shutters jemmied/moved.

The mccanns used their relatives and associates to convey their version of events and then of course when it didn't suit them, deny it.

[Brietta]

Need you be reminded, there is no independent evidence the window was open or the shutters jemmied/moved.

The mccanns used their relatives and associates to convey their version of events and then of course when it didn't suit them, deny it.

The first witnesses on the scene reported what they witnessed ... and that was a raised shutter and an open window.

[stephen25000]

The first witnesses on the scene reported what they witnessed ... and that was a raised shutter and an open window.

After 10 pm.

So no evidence it was open before.

Other than Kate mccanns word, and hers were the only identifiable fingerprints.

[Brietta]

After 10 pm.

So no evidence it was open before.

Other than Kate mccanns word, and hers were the only identifiable fingerprints.

The alarm that Madeleine McCann was gone was not raised until 2200hrs.  Dr Kate McCann's fingerprints are not an issue ... surprised you have missed and taken on board the discussions about that.

[stephen25000]

The alarm that Madeleine McCann was gone was not raised until 2200hrs.  Dr Kate McCann's fingerprints are not an issue ... surprised you have missed and taken on board the discussions about that.

Bottom line.

No independent verification window was open before 10 pm, and that is the crucial period.


FACT.

[pegasus]

I have seen newspaper reports that the Oporto PJ team carried out extensive checks in Praia da Luz, visiting all the relative areas where Madeleine and her group were, and where various sightings were reported.

They were seen walking the route to Casa Liliana and they were seen walking a route towards the beach.

I would be amazed if they had not also visited the apartment block and its environs.

We know that Paulo Rebelo carried out an investigation of the apartment from which Madeleine was taken including any possible exits and entrances, with photographs of an officer climbing in the bedroom window and reports that a blanket simulating an object being passed through.

I am certain the information gleaned from these Portuguese diligences would have been carefully logged and shared with Scotland Yard making the need for their own physical checks superfluous ... however who is to say whether or not they have been allowed to visit discretely, I think it is likely they would want to get a 'feel' of the crime scene.

Thanks Brietta. So it's possible that after 8 years not a single investigator has tested the heriberto method on the actual 5A window.

[pegasus]

Do any of the investigators even realise the window can be fully closed but not locked?

[pegasus]

Do the current SIOs realise some windows in t7 apartments were found to be closed but definitely unlocked ?

[Brietta]

Thanks Brietta. So it's possible that after 8 years not a single investigator has tested the heriberto method on the actual 5A window.

I think Rebelo definitely did and I think it possible it led to him discarding his predecessor's theory as newspaper reports at the time stated  ... 

**snip
Paulo Rebelo's team are said to favour a theory which was originally discounted

**snip
But it does suggest that detectives are moving away from the belief that the couple were involved in her disappearance.

 They are now working on the theory that a prowler monitored the family's routine during their week-long holiday, and carefully chose a moment to strike, Publico reported.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/what-happened-to-maddie/story-e6freuy9-1111114973501

[pegasus]

I think Rebelo definitely did and I think it possible it led to him discarding his predecessor's theory as newspaper reports at the time stated  ... 

**snip
Paulo Rebelo's team are said to favour a theory which was originally discounted

**snip
But it does suggest that detectives are moving away from the belief that the couple were involved in her disappearance.

 They are now working on the theory that a prowler monitored the family's routine during their week-long holiday, and carefully chose a moment to strike, Publico reported.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/what-happened-to-maddie/story-e6freuy9-1111114973501

Thanks Brietta. I wonder if Rebelo Paiva etc at 5A on 29 Oct 2007 worked out that the window was possibly unlocked.

[Brietta]

Thanks Brietta. I wonder if Rebelo Paiva etc at 5A on 29 Oct 2007 worked out that the window was possibly unlocked.

It is my opinion that many PJ officers are indeed part of an elite and I am sure that one of Rebelo's deserved reputation for excellence would not have overlooked such an obvious possibility.  However I am not sure how much of a chance he had to explore anything at all with key witnesses, I believe that he had to cut short his visit to Britain to sit in on rogatory interviews to deal with more press leaks ...

quote -
Mr Mitchell had earlier claimed that it seemed to be no coincidence the leak had occurred while Rebelo was in the UK interviewing witnesses in the case.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-558574/McCanns-launch-furious-counter-attack-Portuguese-police-Maddie-tears-leak.html#ixzz3flmaUzGP


As an aside, Pegasus ... if you have a look at the video of Mr Amaral's documentary a couple of minutes into the introduction shows him sliding the patio door from inside with ridiculous ease ... but what caught my attention was that he did not initially use the handle but used the side of the door instead.
The door runs very smoothly indeed.

[pegasus]

It is my opinion that many PJ officers are indeed part of an elite and I am sure that one of Rebelo's deserved reputation for excellence would not have overlooked such an obvious possibility.  However I am not sure how much of a chance he had to explore anything at all with key witnesses, I believe that he had to cut short his visit to Britain to sit in on rogatory interviews to deal with more press leaks ...

quote -
Mr Mitchell had earlier claimed that it seemed to be no coincidence the leak had occurred while Rebelo was in the UK interviewing witnesses in the case.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-558574/McCanns-launch-furious-counter-attack-Portuguese-police-Maddie-tears-leak.html#ixzz3flmaUzGP


As an aside, Pegasus ... if you have a look at the video of Mr Amaral's documentary a couple of minutes into the introduction shows him sliding the patio door from inside with ridiculous ease ... but what caught my attention was that he did not initially use the handle but used the side of the door instead.
The door runs very smoothly indeed.

IMO it is beyond curious that the PR expert was objecting so forcefully to a fact being released that has since been confirmed in the files and in the mother's book, and indeed the words he was so keen to prevent being bandied about are indisputably the words of the child herself. 
In Amaral's film (window section) you can see how effortlessly the window slides open - it needs only a tiny nudge then it glides by itself. I answer your door fact on other thread

[pegasus]

If the sound of the shutter and window being opened wakened Madeleine, why wouldn't it wake the twins who were nearer?

(from other thread)
Good question. IMO ability of sleeping mind to process sounds increases rapidly with child age.

[mercury]

(from other thread)
Good question. IMO ability of sleeping mind to process sounds increases rapidly with child age.

Kate Mccann says Madeleine was overly tired and wondered if she had been drugged durng the day

[pegasus]

So how does that square with the applauded heriberto theory that the child would go towards that sound  and be lifted out of the window?

Do you agree with heribertos theory? forgetting for the moment that no forensics existed surrounding a child being dragged through the window

(from other thread)
IMO Heriberto's opening method is what happened.
But his idea that the child then went to window is incorrect.
IMO no adult or child ever went through the window.